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New prices! Are they for real? Perpetual scam!

Kommentare

51 Kommentare

  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Is there anything in this "offer" that wasn't mentioned when the new "loyalty scheme" was announced months ago?

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  • AllMediaLab

    It's the first time I visit this forum in a year time and never got an email with information about a new kind of perpetual license. I have no time to lurk around this forum all the time and think a company has to communicate with their users directly and not only on a forum!

    The first time I have been reading this was when I got a mail today with a so called "loyalty offer" and clicked on the link in the mail to see what it was about. 

    At the FAQ there was this text about the perpetual license that shocked me:

    "Getting a perpetual license means you get the current version of Capture One that’s available at the time of purchase and you can continue to keep using that version as long as your hardware and operating system support it. The license doesn’t automatically update when new features are released like the subscription, so you you’ll need to purchase a new perpetual license if you want later the latest tools and updates".  

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    There was a public announcement about it, including an email from the company, at the end of last year. Followed by a considerable uproar from users. It was also covered on various photo sites, DPReview, Fstoppers, etc.

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Of course, if you already have a version of Capture One and a perpetual license for it, you can do noting and carry on using that for as long as you want. You don't have to buy a new version right now. You can wait and see whether enough new features come along that tempt you to shell out for a new version at that point. 

    Ian

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  • Markus Stamm

    Just for the record: I am also a long-time perpetual-license holder and also never received any official communication regarding the planned licensing changes or the loyalty program.

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  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    Just a thought to put it out there: maybe check your spam filter. I’m not sure how anyone even tangentially involved with Capture One could have missed the uproar around this licensing change. I have my issues with the new license but lack of awareness isn’t one of them.

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  • Markus Stamm

    I check my spam filter and folder regularly. No email about the licensing changes nor the royalty program arrived here (and also not for last year's pre-upgrade pricing, about which I found out after the deadline). And yes, I would have missed those changes, since I do not regularly check the big photography related sites anymore. Luckily someone pointed it out to me while discussing C1 in general some time this summer. My main source of information about C1 is their official communication.

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  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    Might want to re-subscribe to their mail list, then.  Not throwing shade nor intending it to come across that way.  It was and still is a big hullabaloo. 

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  • Markus Stamm

    I did re-subscribe last autumn, just to be safe. Several "regular" marketing mails did arrive again afterwards (like the "May Sale", the announcement of C1 for iPhone, "exciting spring news", etc.), but no individual upgrade offers or anything about licensing.

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  • Shane Baker

    Ian Wilson

    Of course, if you already have a version of Capture One and a perpetual license for it, you can do noting and carry on using that for as long as you want. You don't have to buy a new version right now. You can wait and see whether enough new features come along that tempt you to shell out for a new version at that point. 

    I don't know who the genius at C1 is who came up with this scam, but I doubt if many will fall for it. AUD347 for a one-off update - especially against the AUD171.48 a year I am now paying for LR (in several flavours) and PS.

    I can't think of a single piece of software that I own that is a "one-off" product. I've just updated iOS and will update MacOS soon - all for free. In recent weeks I've had updates for FCP, Apple Pages, Affinity Photo and many other apps, and no-one has asked for payment.

    I'm baffled - and very, very disappointed with C1.

     

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  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    Markus Stamm ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Can't explain that one, then.

    On second thought, I seem to recall something some time back where if you unsubscribed from a mail list you would get taken off all lists, marketing, etc.  However, if you resubscribed later, you'd only be added back to a subset of mail lists.  I might be mistaken on that but I'm pretty sure that was a thing.  Might want to open a ticket.  Request Support.  Top right.

     

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    And, with the way perpetual licenses works now, the longer I wait, the more new features and the more bug fixes will be in my next purchase too

    Not so sure about the bug fixes, I observed a tendency to release minor or major versions with regression defects. It is tough to find a version with no broken functionality, after15.2 there is none to date I am aware of, at least for the Windows platform, and even in 15.2 there might be new bugs which I did not notice personally. Add this on top of the shortened free bug fix period and price increases I can not recommend C1 to any newcomer anymore. Maybe they turn things around in the future but currently I am quite pessimistic.

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  • Thomas Kyhn
    Top Commenter

    Maybe they turn things around in the future but currently I am quite pessimistic.

    Same here. My impression is that they do fix some bugs once in a while (possibly introducing new ones), but fundamental problems and shortcomings are generally ignored in favour of new though not quite fully developed features. It would be nice if more priority was given to improving existing functionality rather than adding more features that also need improvement.

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Shane Baker - I'm neither defending nor criticising the new approach. Just pointing out that anyone who currently has a perpetual licence need not spend any more unless they want to.

    Ian

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  • Shane Baker

    Hi Ian

    I'm neither defending nor criticising the new approach. Just pointing out that anyone who currently has a perpetual licence need not spend any more unless they want to.

    I apologise if my post smacked of criticism of you. I was just articulating off your post to express my continuing disenchantment with the whole approach of the people running C1 - and the fact that I have been forced by simple economics to "vote with my feet".

    Regards

    Shane

     

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Shane Baker - no problem!

    Ian

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  • Markus Stamm

    Just pointing out that anyone who currently has a perpetual licence need not spend any more unless they want to.

    ...or unless OS updates happen or they buy a new camera or new lens ;) 

    Seriously: I use C1 since version 3.5 and have been happily upgrading my perpetual license yearly, knowing this would give me not only bug fixes but also new features in the upcoming year. Typically at a price lower than the yearly subscription plan.

    That option is now simply gone, at least in a way it is now longer obvious in advance which option is cheaper.

    C1 used to be the only (!) alternative to LR if you don't like subscriptions and want to have a database driven media library combined with a decent RAW converter. Now that we're more or less forced to subscribe to C1, I guess many will seriously reconsider if they want to continue using C1. Because, let's be honest: most of us have the Adobe subscription anyway to have PS. So basically we get LR for free, because it's already included in their basic plan.

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  • Markus Stamm

    Brian Jordan thanks, that sounds like a possible reason. I will open a support ticket then.

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  • Markus Stamm

    @... well, maybe I live in a strange bubble then, but all the photographers, publishers and editors I regularly talk to and work with, plus most of the readers active forum members on our own site (including lots of "regular consumers" and definitely quite a few prosumers) have (at least) the basic Adobe plan, yes. PS (plus Illustrator and InDesign) is the market standard.

    Some also try out other things like Affinity or Pixemator (me included, but I find myself falling back to PS regularly). But in that bubble, C1 is the exception, LR the rule.

    And the new licensing policy here will certainly not help to change that. C1 moves itself into an even smaller niche that's becoming less and less attractive to "regular consumers".

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Unfortunately, pretty much all software introduces regressions (new bugs in old features) from time to time.  I don't know of any way to avoid those in purchasing.

    Yes, I know numerous applications which are almost free from released to the customer regression defects and other applications which suffer from releasing them from time to time, but C1 is particularly bad in that. Pair that with their radical and ridiculous bug fix release policy for perpetual license buyers and that creates a mess. And even if I had subscribed, there is no version later than 15.2 I would be using due to regression defects, paying subscription fees for nothing (but support). Not acceptable in my book.

     

     

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  • Jeff Griffin

    Perpetual Licence

    Currently I get the dot updates 16.0, 16.1, 16.2 and say 16.2.5 because I bought before the February 2023 cut-off date.

    Do I read it correctly that if I buy, say,   17.0 then all the subsequent dot updates, 17.0.1, 17.1 etc will have to be bought each time ?

    And what happens with the fixing of bugs that appear  in a bought new  version that were  not in  a previously bought version ?

     

     

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  • Markus Stamm

    No, if you buy 17.0, then any bugfix releases 17.0.x will be free.

    If you want to upgrade to a higher version 17.x, then yes, you need to pay for the update.

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  • AllMediaLab

    From the Capture One website:

    "Getting a perpetual license means you get the current version of Capture One that’s available at the time of purchase and you can continue to keep using that version as long as your hardware and operating system support it. The license doesn’t automatically update when new features are released like the subscription, so you you’ll need to purchase a new perpetual license if you want later the latest tools and updates". 

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  • David Mantripp

    Interestingly, the current Beta (with AI masking) is 16.3.0,  NOT 17.0.0

    I wonder how that will work out for 16.x pre-Feb owners ?

    Has anybody else noticed, that with v16, and hence under the new pricing Masterplan, there have been very noticeably fewer "feature" releases than with 15, 14, etc?  I wonder what subscribers think of that?

    All in all things are not moving in a good direction.

     

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    They did say when they announced the new approach that there would not be an "annual version" any more, so if it's labelled as 16.3.0 that is not surprising. And perhaps it's sensible in that every app seems to come out with their new 2023 version, 2024 version, etc. But years are a fairly arbitrary division of time, and it may be better to come out with a new version when there is a new thing they can do, rather than just because that time in the calendar has come round again.

    Ian

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  • Pierre Laviolette

    I bought Capture On 22 to get the HDR feature and the feature does not really work, it does not chose the best parts of the input files so often the resulting file is more blown out or clipped than the input files (I don't dare install bug fix versions). This is with adjust disabled. Anyway I don't trust C1 anymore, will use it as long as it works on my Mac and then see what else there is. I suspect C1 was bought out by someone and they have to make their investment back or they want to sell and so are trying for max profit to make the books look good

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  • Shane Baker

    Pierre
    C1 is now owned by a private equity company. Maximising profit in the short term will be their only interest.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I agree Shane, that is the sole reason such companies even exist, and there is nothing in the business practice we have seen here which would indicate that this owner is any different from the others. That includes the typical sales/marketing buzz which we see.

    If at least they would go the extra mile and make new features as perfect as it could be (instead of following a typical 80/20 rule (80% of a feature can be implemented in 20% of the effort) and if they cared more about software quality (instead of breaking existing functions so often) then the new prices could be a win-win situation also for the customers.

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  • David Mantripp

    With the current 30% discount, loyalty bonus and extra 10% offer, I just got a 65% discount on annual subscription. That doesn’t seem so bad…. Sure there’s no guarantee for the future, but for the present I’ll take it.

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  • Greg Theulings

    I am thinking to vote with my wallet and leave Capture One for Photoshop/Lightroom subscription.
    Not only you get Photoshop, Lightroom Classic and Lightroom CC (including mobile/ipad use) for less per month. It is also that Adobe surpassed Capture One in its feature set for Lightroom. The only reason to stay is for the tethering options. 

    So I am thinking to start to phase out Capture One. I am not in a hurry as CO perpetual license of course keeps on working. This is why I prefer perpetual licences over the subscription model. However I have more faith in Adobe's AI capabilities and implementations than I have with Capture One.

    I am still in good hopes that Serif (better known as Affinity) once will come up with a specific RAW editor, that would allow us to have one creative suite without having to think about subscriptions at all.

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