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How to find out in which album(s) a picture is stored

Kommentare

30 Kommentare

  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    There isn't a way built in to Capture One. I don't know whether it can be done with scripting.

    It would be a useful feature - and you are not the first to ask!

    Ian

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Let’s say I have a picture on screen that I have found after a search action. Often I want to know in which album or albums this picture is stored.

    It is physically stored in a folder, not in an album. It can be assigned to one or multiple albums as kind of a link. Ian is right there is no way to see in which album(s), but you can find the folder in C1 or the folder in the file system where the image file is stored. Goto main menu>Image>Show in Library or Show in Finder respectively.

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  • Rachik Bouanani

    Just right click and select "Show in Library"

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Hi Rachik Bouanani - the trouble is that Show in Library just shows you the physical location of the image file in the Library. It doesn't show you what albums (which are virtual collections) the image may have been added to.

    Ian

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  • Rachik Bouanani

    Hi Ian Wilson,

    Of course it will not show you, it was designed in the opposite way.
    The User Collections are just pointers to the real images in folders (or In-Catalog).
    The use case to find the album(s) that contain an image is not relevant, but the opposite is.

    Unfortunately, what you are searching for is not in place, and I doubt this feature will be added, because few users need it. 

    Sorry my friend Ian,
    Have a nice day,
    Rachik

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Hi Rachik Bouanani

    I do know that about user collections! And it's not me that was asking for this feature, so I am not disappointed. Quite a few users do seem to ask for it, in fact, though I agree with you that it may not be a feature that will be added. To my mind, one of the good things about albums is that images can belong to more than one album, but that also makes implementing a feature like this rather problematic. How would it easily deal with an image that had been added to more than one album?

    Ian

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  • zwartjens

    Here I am back again.

    Thank you all for your opinion on the subject.

    I see that it is a hopeless idea, to find the connections between an original, a variant and the place(s) the pointer to that variant is stored. 

    @Ian Wilson,  thank you for calling it "a useful feature". Of course I agree, it has to do with managing your photo collection. And indeed, maybe it will  be a little bit complicated to register the pointer to more than one album, but what is complicated, thinking of the techniques nowadays used in computers? My opinion: C1Pro nerds  are absolutely NOT interested in improving the existing basic techniques, only in implementing AI driven new features. I can understand - the competitors do it, so they have too. 

    The same applies, for instance, to the PRINT dialog. In my opinion it is still very poor and never improved: it is even not possible to store a combination of settings. I can not imagine that nobody has ever asked for this kind of feature.

    Another example: if the User Collection gets complicated with Groups, Projects and Albums (that is: organising pictures), I would really like to use a search field to find back a specific Project or Album. I remember Aperture (yes, a long time ago) had that feature and I used it a lot. I asked for it and several users agreed that they missed it. The C1 team was and is not interested. 

    Sorry for my complains. Anyway, I understand from your replies that it is not my fault that I could not find the solution. 

    Finally I will share with you my workaround for the question in my post.

    I make a keyword for all pictures in an Album. This keyword is the path to the specific Album the picture is stored in. So a picture of my face in an Album called X that resides in a Project called Y in a Group Z has a keyword Z<Y<X<Rudy. All pictures in that Album have the keyword Z<Y<X. For example, when I search for a picture of my face using a keyword search on ‘Rudy’ in “All Images”, I  get a lot of hits (I am popular in my own photo library). When I select a certain picture and when I am curious in which album it had been stored, I look in the keyword list of that picture and find: Z<Y<X. 

    What is your idea about this solution?

    Rudy.

     

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  • SFA
    Top Commenter

    Rudy,

    Your Keyword solution is fine and is what I would suggest. If not Keyword then at least some other consistently used EXIF field.

    In theory, unless you have created multiple copies of the image or variant edit, the image will only exist in one place but may be associated with multiple albums, etc, if required.

    If you have multiple copies of the original image, all with the same name, in different places, then you are dealing with a different problem.

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  • zwartjens

    @SFA, thanks for sharing your opinion.

    Indeed, this can be done in an EXIF field. The reason I use keywords is that in the Keyword Library Tool it is possible to build a kind of 'tree' that resembles the 'layers' in which pictures can be stored, like my example Z<Y<X . A kind of parent<child system.

    Before I start a new topic about searching in the User Collection for a specific Album, Project etc.,  who found a workaround for that omission in C1?

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  • SFA
    Top Commenter

    I also use keywords, mainly. Sometimes hiearchical, sometimes not.

    It depends on needs. Hierarchical is quite useful for applying keywords but, in my usage, not important for creating albums or selecting a set of images for a specific recipient .

    One useful exception if the EXIF "Place" concept. The idea is that an address can easily be used as a hierarchy (although it may work better in some countries than others) and may also be an important part of search selection and Smart Album, etc., creation.

    In effect the concept in C1 is to primarily think of Albums, etc., as grouping of files based on some file attribute rather than a known bucket into which the references to the files are dropped. The files need to carry with them their grouping references. It makes them portable and very easily grouped when a new group is required. 

    But it's not a filing system.

     

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  • OddS.

    > Ian Wilson: How would it easily deal with an image that had been added to more than one album?

    You mean how it would easily return a list of collection names that have image xyz as member?

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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Yes, I suppose that's what I was wondering.

    Ian

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  • SFA
    Top Commenter

    Unless the edit data file for each variant has a list of associated "collections"  - which might not be a simple list and probably would not be applicable for Smart Albums anyway - the system may have to check each and every collection to obtain a list of associated files and then decide whether the file in question is included in any of them.

    A manually created album will, presumably, already have a list of associated files but for the other collection types that may not be the case.

     

    Unless, of course, there is a system in the background that maintains lists of "last known contents" for rapid presentation and may then take the opportunity to check and update for any changes whilst the user starts to view the initial results.

    Or something like that.

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  • OddS.

    Ian Wilson: Yes, I suppose that's what I was wondering.

    All you need is your C1 database file(s), the freely available SQLite tools and some basic SQL knowledge. The most work would be to familiarize yourself with the database structure (relations), but that will come in handy for all kinds of search operations that are not available in C1.

    Back when i still used C1, I had made a set of useful SQL queries and scripts(*). I think my very first one answered the question you responded to,

    Some years back, a forum member suggested sharing SQL queries or SQL scripts on the forum. Alas, there is always the remote possibility of unwary users harming their database.  However; Enabling forum members to create their own SQL queries by discussing relational structure, table and column names etc on the forum, may perhaps be acceptable?

    * Scripts: I used C1 on Windows and could not tap into possibilities discussed in forum topic  "Development and  Automation Workflows -Scripting". I refer only to general script languages, at least some of them work very well with SQLite. So do several programming languages. 

     

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  • SFA
    Top Commenter

    The OP has asked the question in a Mac related forum.

    Perhaps Applescript could be deployed to provide an answer to the requirement?

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  • OddS.

    > SFA: ...OP has asked the question in a Mac related forum

    Obviously, but my point is that there is a lot of potential even outside the world of Applescript and even outside Mac. Windows and Linux will do  just fine, they only need access to the database file(s).

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    zwartjens suggested using keywords and assign them to the images (or variants) which reside in static albums.

    @SFA:

    In effect the concept in C1 is to primarily think of Albums, etc., as grouping of files based on some file attribute rather than a known bucket into which the references to the files are dropped. The files need to carry with them their grouping references. It makes them portable and very easily grouped when a new group is required.

     This is basically the base idea of smart albums, which filter on keywords or other metadata, why creating static albums when you can benefit from using smart albums in C1.

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  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    zwartjens

    I'm going to wade in here and comment that I don't understand the underlying premise of even wanting to know this information.  

    My image lives in a folder.  "Images" are added to Albums manually.  "Images" are added Smart Albums automatically based on some attribute(s).  

    That said, there is no "image" in an Album or Smart Album.  Albums and Smart Albums are ad-hoc collections of pointers referencing the actual image in its actual folder.  I can freely delete albums without affecting the underlying image file.  I can freely add albums and add an image with no knowledge or concern with any other albums from which that image file may be referred.  I can freely delete an image from an Album without affecting that image's inclusion in any other Album or Smart Album.

    There's quite a lot of debate here on how one might "work around" this.  My personal opinion is that correct usage of key words will allow finding basically any image you want no matter where it might live.  This, after all, is the underlying purpose of a catalog vs a session.  

    C1Pro nerds  are absolutely NOT interested in improving the existing basic techniques, only in implementing AI driven new features.

    Also, I fail to see you why feel the need to slight developers or product management decisions at a personal level.  We should certainly be able to explain "why" we want something and be open to using existing functionality if it's there, I think. After all, this isn't our private software development project.  Taking a back-handed stab at someone feels less than professional to me.

     

     

     

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  • zwartjens

    @Brian Jordan, I took some time and thoughts before replying to your last comment on my post. I wanted to reply carefully and English is not my native language.

    First, thank you for sharing your thoughts about the necessity to know the place in an album of one or more pointers to a picture (yes, I know they are pointers and no pictures). Maybe it is not so relevant to discuss about the importance of that property. For me it appears to be relevant in practice, so I like to see it applied in C1. And I know since my posting that I am not the only one. From long ago it was a feature request. I really hope that readers of my post take me serious if I ask for a solution or work around.

     

    And now about my sighs according to requests to the C1 developers and your comment to that. You make it more than clear to me that you don't like my complains about employees doing their very best to develop a nice and versatile product.

    My complains were not about them personally but more about the apparent choices of the management. So my apologies for my in your opinion wrong suggestions. 

    Your complains about me were in fact more than clear - "this isn't our private software development project", "feels less than professional to me". Because of that severe reprimand I like to give you my opinion at last.

    No, not my private software, but I paid for it and the developers do like to get information about possible bugs to be repaired. So why not requests for missing features?

    Less than professional - sorry for that, but i hope that I could make it clear that it is not personal but about making choices at the level of management.

    I saw that you are a moderator of this forum. That is the reason I wanted to explain my point of view to you. Know that I really want to keep this forum 'clean' and professional.

     

    Rudy.

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  • Erik V

    This is quite simple and can be implemented with virtually no impact on performance. A simple right-mouse click on an image showing a small toolbar window displaying the names of the albums in which the image is referenced would do the trick. A similar simple improvement is allowing to search for orphan images, i.e., images that have been imported but that are not yet included in any album.

    Why does C1 lack these simple features when it's obvious that quite a number of users would welcome them? 

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Erik V

    I would not label an image as "orphaned" simply because it is not in an album. Not everyone uses albums for organizing images. Keywords and metadata are exceptional methods of keeping images organized because we can use the built-in filters to find images that meet specific conditions. We also have Smart Albums for frequent searches that we cannot perform with the built-in filters.

    That said I agree it would be better if Capture One provided this search for us vs having to script it ourselves in AppleScript. Having Capture One provide this would make it available cross-platform and likely make it faster.

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  • Erik V

    Walter Rowe OK but I feel this is semantics. Fact is I have a number of images I imported before I was aware that the recent import history only contains so much instances before disappearing. (I was doing batch imports and still needed to develop my meta-data model with the keywords.)  I probably have hundreds or thousands of images that I cannot find since they don't have keywords nor other meta data that I can use. Also if I perform a search, how can I tell whether the images found are already in 1 or n albums, since this is also a missing feature...?

    An AppleScript is not the solution – also for the cross-platform compatibility as you stated; better User Experience design, however, is. 

    I chose C1 over Adobe LR after having reviewed them and read reviews. The Adobe UI seemed convoluted and outdated–and very much "Windows" like outdated like many apps on Wintel. C1 offered, IMO, a better UX and more pleasing interface. Maybe I also have a weak spot for the underdog. What worries me is that I see a lot of feature and improvement requests in this forum, but I wonder if they are read by product management and executives. This forum itself is not a good tool to monitor the user vibe and prioritize development in a structured and efficient way. I also doubt the design and development team is doing much user research and user testing with regards to UI and features... Lastly communication on features and their release date is not C1's forte either. Being a small company, C1 could leverage this to their advantage compared to a behemoth such as Adobe and cement customer loyalty.

    I think I discovered another bug: I tried the search to look for [keywords] [does not contain] [*] in the assumption it would return all images with no keywords attached to them but this wild card does not work.
    Then I tried with real keywords but it seems the [does not contain] returns the same result as [contains]. Same erratic behavior with e.g. equal / not equal. Now it seems the Advanced Search does not work properly at all... (But the simple search box does return expected results) – I guess I'll have to file a bug report with some video screen captures...

    Another note on the search: when typing in a string in the simple search or advanced search field, the program starts searching even if the full word is not typed yet displaying Apple's spinning beach ball of death. This causes unnecessary and long delays before one can complete the search. (10-30 seconds) Why not have a [search] button to activate the action...

    To keep things positive: as a user I would be willing to invest time in giving feedback to C1 in a structured way – as opposed to posting them on this forum with little effect it seems – as I would expect some others here on the forum. However, I am not going to spend days meticulously describing and documenting them if it's to no avail. Maybe I should drop a line to the CEO...

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Look in the Keywords area of the Filters tool. There is a filter for no keywords. In the Filters tool you can use the "…" menu to enable more filters that are not visible by default.

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  • Erik V

    @Walter Rowe Thanks, that works. I'll post a bug report on the search in the appropriate category.

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  • SFA
    Top Commenter

    Erik V

    I think you may find that you can do what you want with the searches, just not in the way you expect to do it with traditional "special" search characters.

    Keyword > Equals [nothing in the data field] should find all images with no Keyword at all.

    Keyword >Contains>[space] reports any connected keywords (perhaps more accurately "key phrase") that contains a space character. All characters, including "*", "space",  etc., are valid characters for the text of a Keyword.

    The numbers reported can be a little confusing at times, moreso if multiple search criteria are involved, because one number includes all known variants but the browser needs to be in expanded mode (showing multiple variants for images where they exist) to present the same number of image variants.

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  • Erik V

    @SFA Thanks, this does, indeed help. But advanced keyword search does not seem to work correctly. If I use Any in the advanced search (which is the same as typing the search string in the simple search on top) the results display the right images (in my case the used search strings can only be found in the keywords, not in file names or folder names) but using the Keywords in combo with equals or contains for instance, does not find images... I'm wondering if I have a problem with my instance/installation of C1. Only one way to know: doing a clean install I guess...

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  • SFA
    Top Commenter

    Erik V

    Just for the Official Help Reference - in case the explanations within it help with any questions.

     

    Advanced Search criteria explained - Capture One

    Note the comment at the bottom related to the use of Match Any or Match All. This can sometimes catch one out.

    Also there may be Case Sensitivity to consider.

     

    The key is that Equals is looking for an exact string match. Make sure the is no space at the start or end of the string.

    Contains will find the string anywhere in the "phrase". 

     

    If searching for multiple full Keywords it may be quicker to use the Filters tool and its list of discovered Keywords.  To select multiple KWs use the CTRL or CMD key and click on the selection buttons next to the words.

    If creating, say, a Smart Album, then you can use the filter tool to limit the number of images to search and then add additional search criteria to the Advanced Search criteria.

    I would doubt that you have an installation problem. If I find unusual results, which I do from time to time, it is almost always because the data I am expecting to find may not be where I think it is at the time or may not be what I thought it was!

    Or, perhaps, there is some problem with the data storage on disk  - a bad sector of something, that interferes with the search process. (Rare but possible.)

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  • Pierre Lagarde

    Don't know if it's too late or even accurate but here is a sample of an AppleScript I made for me, with some SQL in it to allow cycling thru collections from a selected image/variant. Sorry, messages are in French ;) .

    This code can be added to an applescript scpt file in the Capture One script folder and/or compiled as an application and accessed with shortcuts. 

    It should be modified for your usage as mine is to have user collections simply "piled up" at root "User Collections" level until  they are moved to a "Published" user collection folder.




    tell application "Capture One"




    set selectedVariants to get selected variants

    set nbi to number of items in selectedVariants

    if nbi is equal to 0 then

    display dialog "Pas d'image sélectionnée !"

    return

    end if




    set varId to id of item 1 of selectedVariants

    set collId to id of current collection of current document

    set catalogDBFilePath to ((POSIX path of (path of current document as text) & name of current document as text) & ".cocatalog/" & name of current document as text) & ".cocatalogdb"




    set nextCollectionName to do shell script "echo \" select zc.zname from ZVARIANTINCOLLECTION zvc, ZCOLLECTION zc where zvc.zvariant = '" & varId & "' and zvc.zcollection=zc.z_pk and zc.z_pk <> '" & collId & "' order by zc.zcollectionindex limit 1;\"|sqlite3 \"" & catalogDBFilePath & "\" "

    if nextCollectionName is not equal to "" then




    tell front document of application "Capture One"

    try

    set current collection to collection named nextCollectionName

    on error errMsg number errNum

    try

    set current collection to collection named nextCollectionName of collection named "Published"

    on error errMsg number errNum

    display dialog "Error : No collection called " & nextCollectionName

    end try

    end try

    end tell

    else

    display dialog "Pas d'autre collection trouvée"

    end if

    end tell
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  • Erik V

    Hi SFA thank you for the reference and feedback. I also doubt I have a disk problem – it's a brand new 4 TB SSD – but I do get faulty results... I am going to make a separate, small collection with a few hundred images and test there. If the problem can be replicated I'll send a screen recording to support.

     

    Pierre Lagarde thanks for the script I am going to try it out!

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  • Pierre Lagarde

    Erik V You're welcome.

    To add some information, you can do a second script that looks for "Previous" Collection and cycle back by just adding the "desc" keyword after "order by zc.zcollectionindex ".

    I use those shortcuts to call these scripts saved as local applications and another to go to Library's image :

     

     

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