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Capture One Express is coming to an end

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295 Kommentare

  • Erik Seres

    I loved Capture One and had used it since version 11, upgraded yearly. Not anymore though as this company has proven to me that they can not be trusted for whatever they say, regardless of whether they are a moderator (since he is not in charge) or someone actually in charge.

    This is sad since the software is great.

    But I am not willing to support this company anymore and have already moved to DxO PhotoLab and migrated (well, redone) all my previous important edits, deactivated and deleted Capture One. Such a relief...

    This was my first and very likely last comment on this forum. I just could not stand anymore to remain silent.

    4
  • M

    Erik Seres How have you liked DxO PhotoLab in comparison to C1? I hadn't heard about it until now so i'd definitely be interested in migrating to it if it can handle Fujifilm files good and if the usability is good. 

    0
  • Propheticus

    No longer offering the free tier going forward is of course C1's free choice. Not a popular one for sure and whether it's wise.. who knows? Some say it's unwise to remove the free entry point for new customer who later on step up to the paid tier. Perhaps C1's numbers show not many actually do?

    Some people here mention a perpetual license, but the express version is shown as a subscription in my profile. Were express versions ever offered as perpetual license?

    1
  • Erik Seres

    FirstName LastName, Well, I said I would not comment but, of course, I will gladly help others. :) So here it goes...

    It was a bit foreign first and I could not get the same results immediately as I was quickly able to in Capture One. But I think that was just a learning curve sort of issue.

    It has a radically different approach to local adjustments but once you get the hang of it, it actually works well.

    Some of the other settings and sliders also work differently than most software but that, again, is just something to learn and get used to.

    Its layout is not as customizable as that of Capture One but that, for me, turned out to be a good thing as I stopped wasting as much time perfecting the workspace. One drawback is that it does not have customizable keyboard shortcuts. But the community is pushing it and it will surely come at some point.

    Color manipulation may not be as sophisticated but for my use case, landscape photography, that has never been an issue.

    It does not have tethering so if that is your thing, you are out of luck.

    It does not use a catalog system, just the OS file system so it is as scalable as the OS itself which is great. Everything except Projects (albums in Capture One) is stored in sidecar files so if you lose your database, all your edits remain intact.

    Noise reduction is top notch as they use a completely different approach to everyone else. They demosaic and denies in one pass, using AI.

    And, yes, I'm also using Fujifilm and it works just fine with X-Trans. It even supports Film Simulations although not as seamlessly as Capture One - you can't just hover over a Film Simulation type and see the effects, you have to actually select it to take effect.

    Overall, I am very happy with it. It perfectly fits my workflow and use cases.

    They still offer perpetual licenses but, of course, it is anyone's guess for how much longer.

    I hope that helps.

    1
  • Christian Damhus

    I uninstalled my C1Express version and re-installed Silkypix 9.

    Jack-W. Be aware of other boards too. I am currently reading the German speaking Fujifilm boards and the guys there - even those who own a Pro licence - aren't happy with this company decision.

    For the next months I ll be sticked with Silkypix 9. I will wait and see what is going to happen and than decide which software to buy. C1 is at the moment not my first choice.

    1
  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    Good God, the entitled whining on here!

    Capture One did exactly the same to every Canon, Olympus, Pentax et al user years ago when it pulled the plug on the original universal Express: they are absolutely able to do this legally (a perpetual licence does not in law imply perpetual software availability, and - as we had to at the time (Canon user here) - there's precisely nothing to be done about it except suck it up or go elsewhere.

    Why should a Sony or Fuji user get a cheaper "in" to Capture One than a Canon user?

    And lets not forget - there's going to be an order of magnitude more Canon users than Fuji users on Capture One. You're niche, and probably not worth the expense of supporting separately anyway. 

    Welcome to the same world some of us have been in for years.

    -9
  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    " Seems like a breach of contract from Capture One's side but i'm not a lawyer so what do I know? "

    Absolutely nothing. Where does Capture One promise perpetual software?

    -5
  • FirstName LastName

    I have a full invest in C1P and C1E (for my travel Macbook), with nearly all styles of C1. After the recent changes in license models I have started to migrate elsewhere, out of the sudden, Lr does not look all that bad, is cheaper and - apologies - Adobe acts more reliably.

    C1, are you sure your strategy matches market ?

    1
  • Marcin Mrzygłocki
    Top Commenter

    Capture One did exactly the same to every Canon, Olympus, Pentax et al user years ago when it pulled the plug on the original universal Express

    Good thing I was never a Canon fodder.

    0
  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    There are no stipulations here about revision of this agreement or termination of my right to use the software provided with my camera. So to me, this reads like I should still be able to access this software and that Capture One cannot arbitrarily stop it from working.

    Nope. A perpetual licence is not a promise - implicitly or explicitly - of perpetually-available software.

     

    -1
  • M

    Keith R What are you talking about? When they removed manufacturer specific versions, they just consolidated that into one free version instead of 5 free versions. That is entirely different than what is happening now. The current version of Express is accessible to anyone with any camera so no one is getting in cheaper than anyone just because they have a specific brand of camera. 

    Also, the problem isn't them removing the free version of the software, it's them terminating the licenses of people who use it. There is no reason to terminate the licenses and revoke access to Capture One Express from users who already have it installed on their computers. They could easily just remove the free version from the website so it won't be available to people who don't already have it and they can make the Express version an offline compatible software that existing users with existing licenses can continue to use. It wouldn't get updates, they don't need to provide user support and they can pretend it no longer exists but there is not a single good reason to revoke existing users access.

    You say nothing can be done but that is simply not true. If they lose enough of the user paying base, I bet we will see a change of heart. Besides, even if nothing is done, I'd rather post 100 times complaining than just take it up the rear and do nothing. 

    As far as the law goes, sure the Danish government might not have a law that says perpetual licenses implies lifetime availability, however, their own user agreement does and that is a legally binding agreement between the user and company. 

    4
  • Marcio K

    I'm a Capture One 21 user, bought the full standalone license.

    First blow was the move to subscription - same step that Adobe made and brought a lot of users to C1.

    After that, I've got a new Fuji camera, and was using C1 Express (since my full license don't support the new camera), until a new version of C1 have substantial upgrades that other softwares have (AI Noise Reduction, AI Masking, etc).
    Their last chance with me would be allow me to continue use C1 Express until they release a meaninful upgrade. If they cut the C1 Express use in January, goodbye.

    They could shove their license -  will never trust this company anymore.

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  • M

    Keith R In case you don't know, the definition of "Perpetual" is "Never ending or changing" so when you say it's not a promise of perpetual software availability you are not really correct. I'd encourage you to get a version of C1 Express and fully read the license agreement. It clearly states that users who have a perpetual license are granted access to the software and no where does it say the terms of the license or validity of the license can be changed for any reason of than copyright violations by the user. By disabling the perpetual licenses and revoking access to the software, they are breaking their legally binding contract with users. While I am not a lawyer, this move definitely seems illegal and is at the very least, a big middle finger to C1's users. 

    Lastly, I think it's important to emphasize that change can happen but the only way it happens is by a large group of people acting together as one. In this case that means a lot of paying users cancel their subscriptions and ask for refunds wherever possible. When you take money out of a companies pockets (and their shareholders), they usually back track to try and save things. You can look up the whole fiasco Unity (a free game development engine) had earlier this year when they announced changes to their business model. Took a month or so but they eventually had a change of heart. That only  happened because it's userbase spoke up, made a stink about it and threatened to migrate their games to other game engines (which takes months and costs developers money). So you can be a pessimist and just accept the shit companies throw your way or you can at least try to do something about it. Of course, that choice is yours and I certainly can't change it.  

    2
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Why would paying users stop paying in support of users who are getting something for free?

    -11
  • M

    Walter Rowe Because it screws over people in the C1 community and the photography community as a whole. 

    C1, even in it's free form, is a great piece of software and tons of people who can't afford subscriptions or who only do photography for themselves use it. This decision is a huge middle finger to them and by extension to the people who pay. The company is giving BS reasons for the choice as well. If you guys need more developers on your Pro version and Mobile version than just stop offering updates & support on the Express version. Ya, that would still kind of suck but at least the people who get to enjoy photography still have a REALLY good photo editing software to use. Why cut off access entirely? The software is already on peoples computers, just make it available for offline use and take it off your website!! Are you worried about pirating? Gimp is not an alternative, RawTherapee is far too advanced for most people and I don't think it's had an update for like 2 years now so Express is really the only worthwhile free software.

    Another reason is value. Your subscription is already more expensive than Adobe's and we don't get a C1 version of photoshop included with the subscription. C1 is 100% not more powerful than what is available in Lightroom & Photoshop so purely on value it's not as good. Couple that with this new anti-consumer behavior and why would a paying user want to continue giving money to a company who actively works against them & their community? Is adobe a better company in this regard? No, not really. If you buy a physical photoshop/lightroom install disk of ebay good luck activating the license. Do you own a old version of LR/PS on an old PC and need to upgrade PC's, good luck re-activating your license on your new PC.This is why people choose to pirate adobe software so much. They also screw over their own users in pursuit of a larger profit number by Q4. The same will happen to C1, there will be an increase of pirated versions. I'd say it's better to have free users who might upgrade to pro and pirated users who can't upgrade at all. Why would I (or others like me) switch back to adobe? Their subscription is half the cost and you get twice the software! 

     

    Besides, let me ask you this. As someone who has C1 '21 in a perpetual license, how do I know my license & software access won't be revoked next year, two years, three years from now? Sure I paid money for it but so what, you think I can afford to take C1 to court over revoking my access? You guys have shown that you are willing to break the user agreement (if I am wrong about this,  please quote the part of the agreement that states Express licenses can be revoked under the sole discretion of C1. I know you have the right to terminate a license if a user breaks copyright or IP rights but I didn't read anything that applies to this situation in there) and you have shown that your goal is to force free users into paying for C1. Why should I trust that this company will continue to honor my user agreement and why should I trust that my access won't be revoked down the line in hope of pushing me to the subscription model?

    I'll also reiterate on the value part of this. C1 has doubled it's perpetual license cost while not adding any meaningful changes that are worth double the cost and again, the subscription does not have nearly as much value as what is offered by Adobe. The loyalty program you guys have offered is also a complete joke. I actually felt like someone was messing me when I read that announcement. 

    Why should I continue to support Capture One?

    My advise, if C1 execs are dead set on making this change happen, don't offer a 40% discount, give every current Express user a free perpetual license for the current version. You will retain more users and it's actually a decent offer as opposed to a god dam coupon. "Sorry we are screwing you over but if you pay us 60% the cost you can keep using the product!". Does that actually sound like a good solution to you guys?

    Edit: I had another idea. Stop working on mobile versions entirely and that will free up enough dev time to support Express! You should probably let mobile customer retain access to whatever has been released so far though. For some reason I think they might get upset is access was suddenly revoked for no good reason...

    4
  • Antonio F. Shalders

    Frankly speaking this is pure and simple blackmail to force people to dive into SAAS.

    I have C1 Pro "perpetual" and two Express licenses. Revoking licenses is something that puts me in high alert mode and this worries me a lot about doing the same with the  C1 Pro "perpetual" that I paid (not cheap) for it. I don't want and I will not subscribe for any software, even less for C1.

    I decided for C1 Pro long time ago because I wanted remote camera tethering. Also for the reasonably good Fuji's X-Trans support.

    Ok, C1 Express was for free but this is not how a good business should address to their customers. More or less like this: "You have one month to vanish and don't complain because it was for free." Excellent, fantastic marketing idea for new customers prospection. Are you serious ? Be more gently, give plenty of time instead of kicking the doors this way. 

    Honestly I don't feel comfortable to make deal with this company again. Who knows what will come next ?

    There are equally better alternatives available on the market like DxO for example and it works flawlessly with Fuji's raws.

    If Capture One keeps acting like this, then Good Bye C1 and Long Live DxO !

    1
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Do you have metrics to support your argument that 'tons' of people are using the express editions? Something tells me Capture One does and we don't.

    How can I check your post history? You use a generic "Firstname Lastname" ID like hundreds of others. Use your real name and we can follow you better.

    -2
  • Marcio K

    One more thing: as I said, I have a full C1 21 license, and was using Express in my new Fuji camera because the newer features were not worth the money (for me).

    Even with the 40% discount code, the price is just a bit less than today's price for DxO Elite + DxO Filmpack.

    And DxO upgrade prices are MUCH better than the current C1 upgrade prices (since Capture One wants to force you to subscription).

    If will be really this way, goodbye C1.

    2
  • M

    Walter Rowe That is fair, I don't have the metrics. Why don't you share them with everyone to help explain the choice better? Are they really so bad you had to revoke existing licenses and disable access to current users? 

    Can you answer the other question I posed in my reply to you? You conveniently avoided all of them. 

    0
  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    FirstName LastName - Please fix your username so we can see who we're talking to, rather than one of dozens of duplicates with the same user name.  I've personally taken to not responding to people that won't do the courtesy of making a unique user name.

    1
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    I don't have those metrics because I also don't work for Capture One. We moderators are volunteer app users.

    -1
  • Richard Huggins

    Someone mentioned Photolab. I've come the other way from Photolab to Capture One Pro as Photolab has its own problems. If you want to replace C1 Express, there has been a free version of Photolab 5 Essential that comes with the Nik Collection (or there was when I bought it). 

    0
  • Jiri Valtr

    I would like to add my voice to those expressing great disappointment and anger in Capture One taking away the license I believe to have acquired with the purchase of my Fujifilm camera. I have been a happy user of the Express edition for about two years now, and was actually considering upgrading to a perpetual license of the Pro version, to get some of the more advanced features. I appreciated the option of a perpetual license, which is a much better fit for me as a hobbyist than a subscription.

    However, now I have absolutely no trust that the license actually would be perpetual in the true sense of the word. I would totally understand, if you just decided to not offer new activations of the Express version, but left the existing installations live out the rest of their usefulness. The fact that you feel entitled and plan to interfere with existing installations of the software you have licensed people to use on their own computers (without any reliance on some servers you would need to maintain or anything like that) makes me feel that you think can do whatever you like, completely disregarding any promises and commitments you made in the past.

    I'm sure you can get a lawyer to interpret your license agreements in a way that makes what you do seem totally legal. Nevertheless, I still feel disgusted and cheated and, unless the current plans are revised, I will not be purchasing any license from you in the future and I will be discouraging everyone in my community from doing so as well. 

    10
  • Barry Justice

    Quite frankly,  as a Capture One 22 perpetual license (who used to upgrade every version since V7) user this worries me.  Why go to the trouble of disabling the software on January 30th 2024.  Why not cut support for the Express version and let those with licenses continue to use said license while it supports the camera they bought and received the software with.  It makes no sense to stop the software from working.  Just think of a Fujifilm customer who purchased a month ago and now finds the software that came with the camera will stop working after just two months of ownership.

    Jack W says,"

    There is absolutely no way we will be disabling peoples license keys for Capture One Pro, under any circumstances. I’ll say that with confidence and take the consequences, should we decide to do something like that.

    It’s just not going to happen. And it cannot happen." 

    Well I say bollocks!  This company under the present CEO has been lead into the gutter.  When you purchase a perpetual license now the company only supports bug fixes until a new point version comes out (usually around 3 months) contrary to EU law which states that  software should be supported for bug fixes for two years.  Next they'll cancel your license,  they can't be trusted period.

     

     

    1
  • Nico Kaiser
    Over the last few months we have already learned that Capture One seems to have transformed from a company which creates a professional, innovative, stable and reliable solution for photographers to a greedy bunch of consultants who do not give any shit about customer satisfaction. New bugs were introduced in their products, which broke the workflows of many once happy customers. New features were promised, which turned out either completely useless or underwhelming at best. Products were discontinued, and the new subscription vs. perpetual license model was another big "fuck you" to loyal clients. It all looks like desperate attempts to chase the market, which is now far ahead.

    I feel most sorry for those who trusted Capture One one last time and bought the expensive "perpetual license" for Capture One Pro, in the belief that they would be able to use this product as long as they want. Recent experience suggests that Capture One can – and will – once again say "fuck you" to those customers and also switch off the perpetual license installations.

    This company has completely lost any trust, and I cannot risk using any of their services in my business ever again. Hopefully Serif Ltd. will jump on this bandwagon and bring out a DAM and RAW developing software. There is a market for it.
    4
  • Brian Walton

    Pro user here (and I've done a number of expensive upgrades over the last few years to have the latest and greatest - which the upgrades cost as much as buying the outright versions of other competitors).

    They killed off the original Camera specific pro versions a while back, that wasn't a good sign.

    Now I can understand no longer making future updates to the express version, but no longer allowing server authorizations of previous versions is pretty ridiculous and frankly insulting to the consumer.

    As a photography instructor I constantly encouraged people to ignore Lightroom and try Express first if they were Sony, Nikon, Fuji users and get them into the platform - and they can update once they get the hang of it.  (I also started out with an Express version many years ago with a Sony "a-mount" camera purchase and saw the value to upgrade - though the pricing was more reasonable back then).  

    The only reason to dcom the authorization server/system is a money grab.  I think C1 needs to work on the pricing model to make perpetual purchases more enticing and then make bigger updates so that they get consumers to bite on updates.  The sub model doesn't make any sense at all given the cost difference between C1 and LR + Photoshop given just how crazy powerful Adobe has gotten in the last 2 years.  And C1 perpetual is a large pill to swallow even though I really like the app, it becomes difficult to recommend it to anyone other than professionals.

    Nice product - it just needs better customer policies, practices and pricing.  

    6
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    We don't know the terms of any agreements that were in place with camera makers for the free editions of Capture One. If these agreements have ended the terms could require the end of these free editions. These might be terms of legal agreements we are not allowed to see.

    -4
  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Brian Walton

    Now I can understand no longer making future updates to the express version, but no longer allowing server authorizations of previous versions is pretty ridiculous and frankly insulting to the consumer.

    Yeah, same here.  I'm fine with a business decision to stop revising and supporting the express version.  But shutting down existing users seems weird.  Why not just let them whither and eventually die on their own.  You can stop supporting them.  You can stop making new releases.  You can remove the download of the existing versions.  But why reach out to people already running it and using it and just make their installations stop working.  That is the mean part.  Maybe if you really want to do that for some reason, you give people 12-24 months notice.  But 1.5 months notice.  Weird and seems downright mean.  It sure doesn't seem like a decision that took into consideration how this was going to be taken by your own customers.  In fact, it feels like a purely financially driven decision with no customer-sense to it at all. 

    Did you really think a bunch of pissed-off customers are now going to plunk down for any upgrade?  No, they're going to run to the competitors.

    Did you really think that all your Capture One Pro perpetual license holders aren't going to now suddenly be wondering if they are next?  The very fact that you just yanked a license back from them so that the software you already have installed will no longer run on the hardware it was running on just fine yesterday suddenly makes a perpetual license seem even riskier.  You already treat us like crap for bug fixes.  Now, it this next?

    Big mess-up Capture One.

    5
  • Antonio F. Shalders

    It doesn't matter at all.

    Of course C1 is legally backed. No questions about this. But remember that the community always have the final word in the long run.

    This is obviously just for money and a movement to force the subscription model in the future by making everything possible to kill the "perpetual" licenses, The free tier kill is just the beginning,

    I was also extremely disappointed when they decided to kill Media Pro. They tried to force MP users to migrate to C1 Pro by "merging" the features, something that never happened.

    In my case, I just started to use Photo Supreme as a DAM. Not SAAS and way better than what C1 offered.

    1

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