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Beginner - Keyword help needed

Westdale
The notes for version 8 concerning keywords describe how presets can be stacked, and how keywords can be set using presets. I have a few thousand photos to tag if I am to shift over to Cap1 so it seems i need to do something like this ...
Create presets of keywords "family, theo" and "family, ivy" and then apply those to many images at once

If I have a picture with both theo and ivy in it, I want to end up with "family, theo, ivy"
I have selected the stacking indicator, and applied "family, theo" then "family, ivy" -- only "family, ivy" survives
( and Cap1 helpfully tells me that the other preset has been overridden!)
This is also true if I create another preset "ivy". "family, theo" + "ivy" --> "ivy"
It gets worse as I also want to set locations, and events.

How do I stack keyword presets please ?
Using Windows - although I guess this should be the same on all systems.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    This is a known issue. Cut a long story short, keywords do not stack. I am sorry.

    There are a few workarounds I can suggest. One is that you apply all kind of keywords to a single (dummy) image. This result in the Filters tool listing all those keywords. In CO8 you actually do not need an image for that as you can enter all keywords directly in the filter tool. Next, drop and drag all images to the appropriate keyword in the Filters tool to add a keyword.
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  • SFA
    Writing from a purely personal point of view I thing Keywords as presets can be great base keywords - for a large set of images with some shared information but have little value for the keywords that change often in the set.

    In your example one might consider having 3 keyword presets (if you use the same set frequently enough to make it worth the effort) by adding "family, ivy, theo" and selecting accordingly. I doubt the effort is any greater than attempting to apply 2 presets.

    However if your example pretty much defines the boundaries of what you want to do I'm not sure that a multiple presets route would offer a lot of practical benefit. It would, I suspect, be easier and quicker to simply associate individual keywords with images in other ways - copy and paste or drag to the required keyword as displayed in the filter list.

    Using an approach that includes several different options to address keyword needs is about as flexible as one can get in my opinion.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Westdale
    Thank you - that is most helpful. The use of dropping images onto filters works well.
    It would be great if that were documented!

    Now a second question -- how to get rid of filters that are not needed -- ones I have mistyped, ones provided by Cap1 that I do not want ( Place>Country> State does not work so well where we do not have states)
    I cannot see a file in which they are stored or I should edit them myself.

    And a third -- how to get rid of keywords from an image that should not be there.
    in my previous software it was just a matter of using the delete key on multiple images at once.

    Sorry for all the questions - I am beginning to wonder if I should be using keywords in Cap1 - perhaps other people don't use them and there is a better way to keep track of images.
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  • Westdale
    and a fourth
    It would appear that filters only select within the file folder that is selected?
    If keyword filters do not work across the whole catalogue, I am not sure they are much use
    as one cannot select photos across all years referring to a specific item?
    It's good to find this out before I created too many of them -- or did I miss something.
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  • SFA
    Westdale wrote:
    Thank you - that is most helpful. The use of dropping images onto filters works well.
    It would be great if that were documented!

    Now a second question -- how to get rid of filters that are not needed -- ones I have mistyped, ones provided by Cap1 that I do not want ( Place>Country> State does not work so well where we do not have states)
    I cannot see a file in which they are stored or I should edit them myself.

    And a third -- how to get rid of keywords from an image that should not be there.
    in my previous software it was just a matter of using the delete key on multiple images at once.

    Sorry for all the questions - I am beginning to wonder if I should be using keywords in Cap1 - perhaps other people don't use them and there is a better way to keep track of images.



    The Help does document the "drop on filter" method of adding keywords to one or a selection of images but I suspect that the section involved could be usefully updated to promote the functionality a bit more.

    http://help.phaseone.com/en/CO8/Organiz ... ,-w-,.aspx

    This also has a description of how to remove keywords. There is not mass removal facility in Capture One at this time so far as I know although there are possibly ways of making multiple image corrections that may work for you in many cases.


    Some of the filters offered are auto-generated from typical and common usage of standard meta data fields. In theory, as with all databases and especially those sections that record geographic and address data, one format does not fit all. But that what there is. How we use the fields for personal purposes may not fit with the "standards" but for commercial purposes sticking with standards and accepted anomalies of use makes sense.

    You can minimise the "Places" list when you are not using is so that it does not get in the way much.

    You can go further and remove components of the Filters window by clicking in the 3 little dots in the top right corner of the Filters window and then select Show/Hide filters followed by ticking the options available or unticking the one you don't want to see. You might choose to do this and then save your own personalised Workspace(s) to use so that your choices are retained after updates. etc.

    I seem to remember there is a video tutorial that covers some of this information but I don't have a saved link for it.

    If you have defined your own filter (and perhaps deployed them as selectors for albums) you can open up the filter definitions that are used as searches and modify/delete/disable as required.

    It you want to search through an entire catalogue or session rather than a subset selected by the active folder, just be sure to select the appropriate Album first - most likely All Images, a default Album. (I have used Session terminology as I don't use Catalogues but I assume it is some similar title in a catalog.)

    Whether you should use Keywords is a matter of personal choice and to some extent a decision about how useful and important they are likely to be for you.

    The C1 system is quite powerful once you have become familiar with it and allows us to work in different ways according to specific needs. It is also fast to apply an entry form any of the meta data using copy and paste or dragging to the filter windows.

    Whether you need to use it at all is a different decision process. If you feel you do need to use it I would recommend taking some time to see what it offers and then work out how you can best use the potential for your own needs. There is a lot of functionality available and my personal opinion is that a prescriptive answer to search and filter related questions should be treated as nothing more than opening the door behind which lies an armoury of tools to be deployed as required.


    HTH.



    Grant
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  • Westdale
    many thanks -- that gives me a good start
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  • Westdale
    After a few false starts (typing errors are bad news!), I have the beginnings of a hierarchical keyword set that I can apply over the full catalogue. Thanks for the help.
    One last question on keywords I hope.
    1. clicking the '...' on Filters, I set 'result matches all criteria'
    2. I ctl-click to select several keyword filters ( time>night location>uk>london )
    3. I get all the night shots in manchester as well -- an 'OR' has been used rather than an 'AND'
    4. Opening the advanced search dialogue at '...' on the magnifying glass, it says that ALL rules will be used
    BUT the keyword section of the rules has my two filters with 'ANY' set and greyed out so I cannot change it.

    Is it possible to set 'All' on the keyword section of the rules... if i can't do an intersection, I will abandon keywords and try another route.
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