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Catalog reliability questions

Chris Hesketh
Hi,

After receiving some very welcome and knowledgeable advice about catalogs and sessions, I am now leaning towards catalogs for my photo management. I am new to Capture One and want to make the right choice (if I can) at the first hurdle so that I don’t have to alter it 6 months later!

It seems that the search functions and management of catalogs is a deal breaker and so would be grateful for some answers to these questions:

1. My main issue I have with catalogs is the reliability of them. I would be using a reference based catalog so keeping the files in my own folder structure on the hard drive. My understanding is Capture One creates one file which houses all the metadata, keywords, edit information, preview files displayed in the program (correct me if I’m wrong) and that’s great as it keeps the size of the catalog file down etc but what happens if that one file becomes corrupt? Does that mean my entire catalog and edits become unusable? Or is there a sort of sub folder structure within that catalog file which could pin point any culprit corrupt files?

2. In Capture One I’ve seen in webinars it has a sort of folder structure viewer on the left hand side of where the photos are held on the drive. Can I add folders and this pictures to my catalog this way through using Capture One’s folder viewer?

3. For those that use catalogs, (I understand there are many needs for different photographers out there) but is the most common/reliable way of managing this? I.e. by type of photography? One catalog for weddings? One for family etc? Or one each year?

4. Do most keep exports in the same catalog also? I know with sessions it has a folder for final editors photos but do most have a library separate for final photo exports?

Thank you for your responses in advance
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Kommentare

8 Kommentare

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  • GEvans58
    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:
    Hi,

    After receiving some very welcome and knowledgeable advice about catalogs and sessions, I am now leaning towards catalogs for my photo management. I am new to Capture One and want to make the right choice (if I can) at the first hurdle so that I don’t have to alter it 6 months later!

    It seems that the search functions and management of catalogs is a deal breaker and so would be grateful for some answers to these questions:

    1. My main issue I have with catalogs is the reliability of them. I would be using a reference based catalog so keeping the files in my own folder structure on the hard drive. My understanding is Capture One creates one file which houses all the metadata, keywords, edit information, preview files displayed in the program (correct me if I’m wrong) and that’s great as it keeps the size of the catalog file down etc but what happens if that one file becomes corrupt? Does that mean my entire catalog and edits become unusable? Or is there a sort of sub folder structure within that catalog file which could pin point any culprit corrupt files?


    Use the backup feature regularly in C1 to backup your catalog, AND backup your hard drives regularly as well to backup the live database files, as well as C1 backups - I use Acronis True Image, but there are other applications for backing up your hard drives as well.

    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    2. In Capture One I’ve seen in webinars it has a sort of folder structure viewer on the left hand side of where the photos are held on the drive. Can I add folders and this pictures to my catalog this way through using Capture One’s folder viewer?


    You can add and remove folders, but I think the only maintenance you can do in the folder view of C1 after a new folder is created, is drag and drop already imported images and folders into the newly created folder. Pretty sure importing is the only way to add photos (but I could be wrong)

    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    3. For those that use catalogs, (I understand there are many needs for different photographers out there) but is the most common/reliable way of managing this? I.e. by type of photography? One catalog for weddings? One for family etc? Or one each year?


    I don't think there is a right or wrong way for this. I base mine on genre and searchability. so I have catalogs for "Weddings", "Portrait / Beauty", "Horse Shows", "Misc" The "Horse Show" categories, because they contain so many images, I create a new "Horse Show" catalog for each year. I.E. "2018 Horse Shows", "2019 Horse Shows", etc..

    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    4. Do most keep exports in the same catalog also? I know with sessions it has a folder for final editors photos but do most have a library separate for final photo exports?


    I don't keep exports in any catalog. I have a drive for exports, but once exported they're on their own as far as C1 is concerned. Occasionally I'll go back to the raw file and re-export for a number of reasons (adding a watermark, etc...) but my exports don't ever go back into C1

    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    Thank you for your responses in advance
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  • Chris Hesketh
    Use the backup feature regularly in C1 to backup your catalog, AND backup your hard drives regularly as well to backup the live database files, as well as C1 backups


    Thank you for your detailed response it was very helpful. What do you mean ‘the live database files’? I understand there is a catalog file but unsure of those files?

    Thanks
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:
    Use the backup feature regularly in C1 to backup your catalog, AND backup your hard drives regularly as well to backup the live database files, as well as C1 backups


    Thank you for your detailed response it was very helpful. What do you mean ‘the live database files’? I understand there is a catalog file but unsure of those files?

    Thanks

    The thing is that the backup feature in Capture One only backs up the catalog database. The actual raw files are not backed up by that process, whether they are referenced (stored outside the catalog) or managed (stored inside the catalog). Therefore you need to back up the drive on which the catalog is held.

    (On a Mac - I'm not sure how it works in Windows - if you right click the catalog file and choose to show package contents you will see that the catalog "file" is actually a package containing the catalog database, previews, thumbnails, any original raw files actually held in the catalog, etc. Not all of that is backed up by the Capture One backup feature, so it is not a substitute for a reliable backup strategy.)

    Ian
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  • Ian Leslie
    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    1. My main issue I have with catalogs is the reliability of them. I would be using a reference based catalog so keeping the files in my own folder structure on the hard drive. My understanding is Capture One creates one file which houses all the metadata, keywords, edit information, preview files displayed in the program (correct me if I’m wrong) and that’s great as it keeps the size of the catalog file down etc but what happens if that one file becomes corrupt? Does that mean my entire catalog and edits become unusable? Or is there a sort of sub folder structure within that catalog file which could pin point any culprit corrupt files?

    I have yet to end up with a corrupt catalogue file. I have only been using C1 for a little over a year but have gone through several upgrades to C1. But having said that I back it up frequently. I let C1 do its catalogue backup thing but I mirror my whole photo collection regularly.

    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    2. In Capture One I’ve seen in webinars it has a sort of folder structure viewer on the left hand side of where the photos are held on the drive. Can I add folders and this pictures to my catalog this way through using Capture One’s folder viewer?

    I am glad someone else answered this. I only ever import photos into my catalogue I have yet to have any need to create additional folders.

    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    3. For those that use catalogs, (I understand there are many needs for different photographers out there) but is the most common/reliable way of managing this? I.e. by type of photography? One catalog for weddings? One for family etc? Or one each year?

    I use a session for my initial work - lets me move the files to a note book computer and back - and then I import into a single catalogue. My catalogue is mostly my nature photography with the odd wedding and a handful of events. If I was doing events or weddings 50 plus times a year I might feel differently.

    NN636662181419599617UL wrote:

    4. Do most keep exports in the same catalog also? I know with sessions it has a folder for final editors photos but do most have a library separate for final photo exports?

    Never. To me output is throw away. I deliver it or send it for printing - whatever is appropriate. After a while I just delete it. If I ever need it again I just recreate it from the RAW files in the catalogue. To me that is the point of RAW files and a RAW editor.

    My issue is with having them back in the catalogue is that now I have two, or more, copies of the file. I don't want to have to mentally sort that out. Just one RAW file of truth with one copy of each editing version I decide to create. No need to be looking at jpg or tiff files when I have the RAW file.

    Clearly others feel differently so everyone should do what they feel comfortable with.
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  • Class A
    GEvans58 wrote:

    You can add and remove folders, but I think the only maintenance you can do in the folder view of C1 after a new folder is created, is drag and drop already imported images and folders into the newly created folder. Pretty sure importing is the only way to add photos (but I could be wrong)

    One can also add images to a C1 catalogue by adding them to existing folders outside C1 and then "synchronize" the folder in C1.

    I find that easier and quicker than importing.

    Sadly, C1 has no option to automatically add new subfolders to a known folder during synchronization. One can work around this by adding the new subfolders manually to the C1 catalogue (right-click on the existing folder and select "Add folder" (or similar)) and then synchronizing the new subfolders.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    Class A wrote:
    GEvans58 wrote:

    You can add and remove folders, but I think the only maintenance you can do in the folder view of C1 after a new folder is created, is drag and drop already imported images and folders into the newly created folder. Pretty sure importing is the only way to add photos (but I could be wrong)

    One can also add images to a C1 catalogue by adding them to existing folders outside C1 and then "synchronize" the folder in C1.

    I find that easier and quicker than importing.

    Sadly, C1 has no option to automatically add new subfolders to a known folder during synchronization. One can work around this by adding the new subfolders manually to the C1 catalogue (right-click on the existing folder and select "Add folder" (or similar)) and then synchronizing the new subfolders.

    When you synchronise a folder, there is a check box to open the importer when you do so. If you check that then the import dialog box comes up so that you can do useful things like check the box to include existing adjustments, and also there is a check box to include subfolders.

    Ian
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  • Class A
    Ian3 wrote:

    When you synchronise a folder, there is a check box to open the importer when you do so.

    I'll have to check whether that option exists in V11 as well (the version I'm using). In any event, I'd rather avoid the importer.


    Ian3 wrote:

    ...also there is a check box to include subfolders.

    If you are referring to the respective box in the synchronization dialogue, it only targets subfolders that are already part of the catalogue. Any new subfolders are ignored. AFAIC, there should be another option to consider as of yet not known subfolders as well.
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  • Timothy Devick
    There is a catalog "Verify" feature that will look for errors in your catalog and, optionally, try to repair them. After importing my LR catalog into C1 I ran the Verify (because I had had some strange problems). It would run and tell me that my catalog had errors. I tried the repair option (offered at the end of the Verify run) and it attempted to repair my catalog but said it failed to repair my catalog. Maybe the verify has problems or maybe it detects some types of problems that aren't critical to the catalog functionality. Sometimes I run it and it says it successfully repaired my catalog. Then I run it again without changing anything and it will say catalog didn't verify. Strangely/thankfully, I haven't seen any odd effects of
    this so far.

    It may be worth verifying (and repairing if necessary) your catalog before backing up, but as the previous poster said you should backup frequently, just like you would do in LR or other program.
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