Solution for Leica SL?
Last year I purchased a Leica SL and its a wonderful camera. Even though LR comes free with the camera my experience with my other Leica camera - the Q was that I prefer the rendering of C1. I assumed C1 would support it in fairly short time as they did the Leica Q. However there is still no profile for the SL. (Yes I sent a ticket to support - twice) Maybe things always go so slow with C1 and I just lucked out with the Q. But without a profile the SL colors look really bad - particularly the reds - can't get them anywhere near correct. So I'm just about ready to give up and move to LR but before I do I wondered if anyone on the forum has any experience with creating profiles for C1. Can an individual easily create a profile for the SL?
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Please write Leica's Support and tell them you need Capture One support for the SL. 0 -
Same problem here, would love to process the files from my wonderful Leica SL with my favourite raw processor C1. Just wrote to Leica's support as you suggest, but wondering what that might bring?
What is PhaseOne's planning on this, will you add Leica SL support anywhere soon? Any anticipated dates available?0 -
[quote="Willem Jan" wrote:
Same problem here, would love to process the files from my wonderful Leica SL with my favourite raw processor C1. Just wrote to Leica's support as you suggest, but wondering what that might bring?
What is PhaseOne's planning on this, will you add Leica SL support anywhere soon? Any anticipated dates available?
When Leica will provide us the camera, we would love to implement raw-support for it.0 -
Just received a response back from Leica Support.
They say: "We don’t have an inquiry on the part of Capture One, to add our cameras in a new release of their software. If Capture One will show interest we’ll not refuse the cooperation. Thank you for your attention."
Understand all sensitivities around Adobe vs Phase One on the software side and Leica vs PhaseOne on the (medium format) camera-side, but the customer ends up being the one loosing. That does not seem to be fair?
Will you reach out to Leica to get support for the Leica SL in C1, like you have for example for the M (240)?0 -
I can assure you they do... I will take it up with them again. 0 -
Jim, you both Leica and PhaseOne sounds like a divorced couple. Communicating just only via your kids. Dad: "Ask your mom whether she ...", Mom: "Tell your dad that ...". Thats childish.
You both should recognize, that your child's are already adult. They make their own decisions ... since a very long time. Divorced people should also become adult - my guess. And they should do what best is for their children ... and them self.
And btw I have wonderful memories and already a stable, kind and respectful relation to both - Leica & PhaseOne ... and their new families as well ...0 -
Hmmmm is Phase One so cash poor that they cannot afford to rent an SL? How long does it take to profile a camera? I'm not being sarcastic; I really don't know what the process is. But at about $400 per week rental I'm not sure why they couldn't afford it.
And what's wrong with Leica not giving them a loaner if that is the industry practice? It's bad enough that Leica forces me to pay for Lightroom with every camera purchase (indirectly but I'm sure its factored in). Since I have purchased multiple Leica cameras I have multiple unused copies because I think C1 simply looks better. Not sure why Leica and Adobe seem to be bound together but in any case the least they can do is support those of us who don't prefer LR.
Leaves me with a distaste for both companies. ☹️0 -
Thank you Jim, that would be great.
I totally agree with the other responders, both Phase One and Leica should be adults and get over any differences between them to support their respective customers. By the way, I have responded the same way to Leica as well and send them a copy of this conversation. It's hard to judge for us one over the other, but we can certainly make the claim to both.0 -
[quote="Vidio" wrote:
But at about $400 per week rental I'm not sure why they couldn't afford it.
Business is business and business relationships are business relationships - or sometimes something more personal.
It is unrealistic to think that they might be something from a Utopian dream no matter that one might hope.
It's a bit like photographers providing their images free or perhaps at cost.
The question about rental lenses has been covered before. It's not easy to know whether they are representative of the true lens performance when they have been used and, possibly, abused by the renter or the carrier as they travel around.
There would be little point in spending time profiling a lens that was not of the same quality as you would expect direct from. the factory.
Well, unless all examples of the lens ended up with the same results after a period of use - in which case the corrections might be perfect in the long term.
Grant0 -
Seems a little nutty that the SL uses DNG as its native raw format, and yet the files still won't import into Capture One. What happened to DNG being a universal raw format? 0 -
[quote="markalanthomas" wrote:
Seems a little nutty that the SL uses DNG as its native raw format, and yet the files still won't import into Capture One. What happened to DNG being a universal raw format?
Good question.
I guess one would have to ask the guardian of the standard and then the people who choose which versions of the standard to use.
As someone once observed,
"Standards are great. Everyone should have some."
Grant0 -
The SL files will import in OK but the colors are off, particularly the reds as C1 does not have a profile for the camera. So the result is a pretty bad looking file in many cases. It's a shame really. As to the comment about lens profiles I understand not wanting to rent a lens. But this is the camera itself. Would the sensor in a rental be that different from a new one. I would actually be willing to let them use mine for a week or two if that's what it takes. It's been months now. 0 -
[quote="Vidio" wrote:
The SL files will import in OK but the colors are off, particularly the reds as C1 does not have a profile for the camera. So the result is a pretty bad looking file in many cases. It's a shame really. As to the comment about lens profiles I understand not wanting to rent a lens. But this is the camera itself. Would the sensor in a rental be that different from a new one. I would actually be willing to let them use mine for a week or two if that's what it takes. It's been months now.
You could make the offer in a Support Case and see what Phase say.
How many SL users also use C1 might be interesting information.
As I am somewhat cynical in these matters, how many SL owners are also regular SL users might also be an interesting figure.
I have a strong suspicion that the majority of cameras manufactured, any brand and model class, live most of their lives on a shelf or in a cupboard.
That maybe why phones have become accepted since they perform an everyday function and happen to be able to take some sort of photo as well. Not always a great photo - but good enough for general acceptance.
Grant0 -
I do hope Capture One will support Leica SL in the next release, for what it is worth I have also submitted my support case.
Grant I am a regular user of Leica SL since it has been released and of Capture One since version 3.xx.0 -
So back to my original question. Is there anything we as users can do to create a profile for the SL while we wait for Phase One to take their good old time? Is it something we create and share or is it beyond what and individual can do? It seems Phase One just does not have the resources to support Leica cameras and lenses so I'm kind of thinking about the future too, wondering if it is worth sticking with C1. 0 -
I suggest you to start applying the profile of the Leica Q , which is supposed to have the same sensor as the SL, and visually fine tune to your taste using the advanced color editor and the picture of a color checker as a reference. You can then save the result as a new ICC profile for your SL. 0 -
[quote="Vidio" wrote:
So back to my original question. Is there anything we as users can do to create a profile for the SL while we wait for Phase One to take their good old time? Is it something we create and share or is it beyond what and individual can do? It seems Phase One just does not have the resources to support Leica cameras and lenses so I'm kind of thinking about the future too, wondering if it is worth sticking with C1.
Please do re-read my previous response in this thread.0 -
Thank you Christian. I have twice submitted tickets to support. I just get a standard response saying they are aware there is a need but there is no solution at this time. Is it worth it to keep submitting or will that seem impolite? 0 -
[quote="Ario" wrote:
I suggest you to start applying the profile of the Leica Q , which is supposed to have the same sensor as the SL, and visually fine tune to your taste using the advanced color editor and the picture of a color checker as a reference. You can then save the result as a new ICC profile for your SL.
Aria I am trying your suggestion. But for some reason the Q profile is wildly off, one of the worst. I'm not sure why this is as I know they are supposed to share sensors. But I can tell you that the SL is doing something pretty different than the Q. I have had better results with using the DNG Neutral or choosing "no color correction" under "effects.". The red tones are the most difficult. Using the color editor I rotate magenta more towards red and red more towards orange. This is getting close but I still have more testing to do. I will post my results here.0 -
[quote="Vidio" wrote:
Thank you Christian. I have twice submitted tickets to support. I just get a standard response saying they are aware there is a need but there is no solution at this time. Is it worth it to keep submitting or will that seem impolite?
What Support is telling you is the truth. Does that mean we are not working to try and resolve this issue (or many other issues for that matter)? Nop, however, please understand that we cannot and will not provide reports over what is being done internally to support a given camera, and or provide timelines, that might change last minute.
1 Support case per camera per user is enough as that will be linked to the feature request for the specific camera.0 -
I have to agree with the customer side of things in terms of C1 supporting the Leica SL and that the petty quibbling between Leica and Phase should be put to bed. If arch enemies in the 90s MS & Apple found a way to work together, Leica and Phase One should be able to agree on something as simple as timely support in C1 for new Leica cameras.
I understand why Phase One will not implement support for the Leica S series (even if a disagree with their reasoning), I can't believe how long it's taking them create a profile for the SL.
The delays just create distrust towards both brands and frustration on the part of the supporters of both companies.0 -
Maybe the delay in supporting the SL was related to the similarity in letters or the fact that the SL borrows some aspects of the S. But it seems to me a bad business move to not support the S. I imagine they are thinking the S is a competitor to their own products. But another way of looking at it is to consider that the users of medium format are already a small group. To eliminate the Leica folks seems shortsighted. It means the Leica owners will not buy C1 and therefore not have any connection to Phase One. If the S were supported and Leica folks used C1 they might become more aware overall of Phase One and possibly decide to switch over to Phase One medium format products in the future. 0 -
[quote="Vidio" wrote:
Maybe the delay in supporting the SL was related to the similarity in letters or the fact that the SL borrows some aspects of the S. But it seems to me a bad business move to not support the S. I imagine they are thinking the S is a competitor to their own products. But another way of looking at it is to consider that the users of medium format are already a small group. To eliminate the Leica folks seems shortsighted. It means the Leica owners will not buy C1 and therefore not have any connection to Phase One. If the S were supported and Leica folks used C1 they might become more aware overall of Phase One and possibly decide to switch over to Phase One medium format products in the future.
Let's cut down on the conspiracy-theories, shall we? 😉
With the help of a very kind CO-user, full file-support for the SL will come quite soon.0 -
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="Vidio" wrote:
Maybe the delay in supporting the SL was related to the similarity in letters or the fact that the SL borrows some aspects of the S. But it seems to me a bad business move to not support the S. I imagine they are thinking the S is a competitor to their own products. But another way of looking at it is to consider that the users of medium format are already a small group. To eliminate the Leica folks seems shortsighted. It means the Leica owners will not buy C1 and therefore not have any connection to Phase One. If the S were supported and Leica folks used C1 they might become more aware overall of Phase One and possibly decide to switch over to Phase One medium format products in the future.
Let's cut down on the conspiracy-theories, shall we? 😉
With the help of a very kind CO-user, full file-support for the SL will come quite soon.
Should be recommend people seeking raw support for a certain camera to mail their camera to Phase One now? 😉0 -
It is only natural that we ask a user as a last resort. We have quite a large Leica user-group, and of course we would like to support the "latest-and-greatest". 0 -
First of all: thank you PhaseOne for developing a profile for the SL, even when it's five months after it's introduction. Better late than never.
A second thank you to Scott Kirkpatrick who loaned his camera to PhaseOne for this purpose (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/257 ... le-for-sl/).
I believe the questions still remaining are:
- what is 'quite soon' (days, weeks, months?)
- why does a developer of professional grade software/products let it come this far? Really unnecessary reputation damage
If you take the latter point serious (it's meant that way), why not surprise us with tethering support for the SL in the next release. That would make us forget this debacle very quickly....0 -
Expect an announcement shortly.
I remind you kindly of the forum rules reagrding politcs on this forum.
I will lock this thread now.0
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