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Catalog database corrupt, unable to connect

Permanently deleted user
I've read through the other threads related to this issue, but none of the fixes I've tried have worked.

Three days ago, I was working with one of my databases with no problems. I was able to edit and print from that database. Now I can't open it. This is an archive of images older than 3 years ago and contains A LOT of images. I have no idea what happened as I don't think I've had to Force Quit the app or Force Restart my Mac.

I restored the database from a Time Machine backup. First from a few days ago and when I got the same error message, I restored from a backup that is several months old. Still can't open the catalog.

I deleted the prefs files for Capture One (every file I could find, including for versions 8, 9, and 10 of Capture One). No effect.

I tried to verify and repair the catalog, but that doesn't do anything.

I like how it says it found no problems:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-hvGHTdV/0/7c9aa742/O/i-hvGHTdV.png

Then this:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-fcvSS95/0/52270983/O/i-fcvSS95.png

Finally, when attempting to verify the catalog:
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-RzMSPZg/0/36d43b3d/O/i-RzMSPZg.png

My main catalog works flawlessly. This one suddenly doesn't work at all. Any clue what is going on or suggestions on how to proceed?
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  • Spicyjello
    Only thing I have done at that point is make a stiff drink and restore from a backup. Since C1 stores so much data in its catalog files a backup is essential.

    I have gotten in the habit of backing up after each big editing session. I am also on a MAC so I have a TimeMachine running so the longest I go without a backup is an hour.

    Hope you get it resolved.

    Troy
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="Jonzinator" wrote:
    Only thing I have done at that point is make a stiff drink and restore from a backup. Since C1 stores so much data in its catalog files a backup is essential.

    I have gotten in the habit of backing up after each big editing session. I am also on a MAC so I have a TimeMachine running so the longest I go without a backup is an hour.

    Hope you get it resolved.

    Troy

    I did say that I restored from a TM backup several months old. That should have put me well within the range of useable backups.
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  • Eric Nepean
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:
    [quote="Jonzinator" wrote:
    Only thing I have done at that point is make a stiff drink and restore from a backup. Since C1 stores so much data in its catalog files a backup is essential.

    I have gotten in the habit of backing up after each big editing session. I am also on a MAC so I have a TimeMachine running so the longest I go without a backup is an hour.

    Hope you get it resolved.

    Troy

    I did say that I restored from a TM backup several months old. That should have put me well within the range of useable backups.

    For dealing with a corrupt Capture One database, IMO the Capture One backup feature is more effective than Time Machine, in any case it's useful to have both.

    In Capture One Preferences, I set the Automatic backup for once a day. You can also chose to manually backup the Catalog from within Capture One at any time.
    This makes a copy of the database, which is not that big. One copy is kept permanently every time a backup occurrs.

    If a catalog database becomes corrupt, this lets you copy a previous non-corrupted version of the database back into the Catalog.
    If the accumulated backups become too large, it's easy to erase a few (using finder)

    The only time I've had problems with corrupted databases is when I force quit Capture One, or when I was running a Catalog and a Session at the same time.
    I have now selected (in preferences) the option "Open Session or Catalog in a new window", which limits Capture One to one catalog or session at a time.
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  • dredlew
    If you do have backups, deleted the prefs and you're still having the same issue, then I'd suspect that there is a cache that may contain some corrupt data. I would completely delete any traces of C1, by searching for any file that has Capture One or Phase One in its name. Make sure to include "System files" in the search settings. Once C1 has been completely deleted, reinstall it again. If the issue still persists, it might be harder to reach cache. Use Onyx to clean out system and app cache, then try again. But support probably has some suggestions as well.

    Do you seriously have 81279 images in that catalog? If so, then it's not surprising to me that the catalog got corrupted. C1 is not meant to handle more than 10k images per catalog. I would not advise going beyond that, otherwise you risk these types of catalog issues.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="dredlew" wrote:
    C1 is not meant to handle more than 10k images per catalog.


    Is that documented somewhere? I've never heard that, but it would be good to know, for sure.
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  • dredlew
    Is that documented somewhere? I've never heard that, but it would be good to know, for sure.


    I don't think it is officially documented, I vaguely remember that it may have been mentioned in a webinar once or may have been a reply to someone's support case. However, what you will find documented all across the forum are these cases of catalog/DB corruptions, especially with catalogs that go beyond 10k.

    Also, conspicuously absent is any mention of library size in CaptureOne's feature list. It was a big deal for Apple (and Adobe, some years after) to announce that their software now could handle hundreds of thousands of images. PhaseOne does not and cannot claim the same, so apparently they rather not mention anything.
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  • Spicyjello
    10k Limit?

    Capture One has on many occasion during their webinars referred to catalogs well in excess of 10k images. This is in no way "official" endorsement from C1. Perhaps they could chime in here.

    When I was researching C1 I read on several occasion that 10k was a soft image limit. I am now pushing 30k images with no issues rumored to be prevalent at 10k.

    Ill keep adding files.

    Troy
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  • Eric Nepean
    If you use the COP script to generate a package, and then unzip the COLogs.zip file on your desktop, you will find a COLogs folder.

    In the COLogs folder, in the com.phaseone.captureone10.log file, I find the line: "Limit number of open files set to: 10000"

    That may be where the comment on 10,000 images originally came from, but IMO this does not mean there is a limit of 10,000 images in a catalog.

    My main catalog has 15,000 images; COP support staff would quickly have dispensed with some of my tickets if there was a 10,000 image limit.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    I've submitted a support question about my original problem (still not resolved) and I submitted a separate question about this ridiculous 10K image limitation. I will update here when/if I hear anything.

    Just the idea that the software would put data at risk because of some arbitrary limitation is offensive to me. For the sake of argument, let's say it's just safer to maintain catalogs with no more than 10,000 images. Would I keep my images in separate catalogs based on the year they were shot? What if I then wanted to find an image with a keyword, but couldn't remember the exact year it was shot? Would I have to perform five or six keyword searches, one for each catalog I suspect the image might be in? Maybe, to be extra safe, I should keep separate catalogs under different user profiles on my computer. And maybe I should shut down and restart the machine every time I want to switch to a new user and access those catalogs.

    You can see how silly this can get.
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  • SFA
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:
    I've submitted a support question about my original problem (still not resolved) and I submitted a separate question about this ridiculous 10K image limitation. I will update here when/if I hear anything.

    Just the idea that the software would put data at risk because of some arbitrary limitation is offensive to me. For the sake of argument, let's say it's just safer to maintain catalogs with no more than 10,000 images. Would I keep my images in separate catalogs based on the year they were shot? What if I then wanted to find an image with a keyword, but couldn't remember the exact year it was shot? Would I have to perform five or six keyword searches, one for each catalog I suspect the image might be in? Maybe, to be extra safe, I should keep separate catalogs under different user profiles on my computer. And maybe I should shut down and restart the machine every time I want to switch to a new user and access those catalogs.

    You can see how silly this can get.


    Did you read the replies immediately above your before posting?
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    Did you read the replies immediately above your before posting?

    Yes, and there still appears to be unsubstantiated rumor that there is a 10K limit. I want to hear from the source, not from users who think they've figured it out. No one yet has shared a direct quote from the developer on this supposed limitation.
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  • Ian Farlow
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:
    Yes, and there still appears to be unsubstantiated rumor that there is a 10K limit.


    You want proof that an unsubstantiated rumor is... unsubstantiated? Ok. I'm curious, do you offer proof that the unsubstantiated rumor is not unsubstantiated? You must have proof, otherwise I find myself confused that an unsubstantiated rumor could be offensive to you.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Phase One Support Case 250254:

    Hi Phillip,

    There is no limit to the number of files a catalog or session folder can contain. However, particularly with catalogs, larger catalogs run a risk of being corrupted. The best way to do general maintenance on catalog files is to back up prior to quitting every time and check Optimize Catalog when doing so.

    Best regards,

    Phase One Technical Support


    There you have it. Right from the horse's mouth.
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  • dredlew
    [quote="Jonzinator" wrote:
    10k Limit?

    Capture One has on many occasion during their webinars referred to catalogs well in excess of 10k images. This is in no way "official" endorsement from C1. Perhaps they could chime in here.

    When I was researching C1 I read on several occasion that 10k was a soft image limit. I am now pushing 30k images with no issues rumored to be prevalent at 10k.

    Ill keep adding files.

    Troy


    Well, good luck with that! Don't say I didn't warn you. 😄
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  • dredlew
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:
    If you use the COP script to generate a package, and then unzip the COLogs.zip file on your desktop, you will find a COLogs folder.

    In the COLogs folder, in the com.phaseone.captureone10.log file, I find the line: "Limit number of open files set to: 10000"

    That may be where the comment on 10,000 images originally came from, but IMO this does not mean there is a limit of 10,000 images in a catalog.

    My main catalog has 15,000 images; COP support staff would quickly have dispensed with some of my tickets if there was a 10,000 image limit.


    No one said there was a hard limit. But if you keep adding files to a DB that's not meant to handle large amount of files, watch what happens. There are people that have added ~100'000 files to the catalog but they wait for 30+ minutes to even open the catalog. Needless to say that every catalog intensive operation performed will exponentially take longer or put the db at risk. Imagine updating keywords on a 100k catalog? I can almost guarantee you that it will crash.

    Fact of the matter is that C1 is not built to scale (confirmed by support right above). Aperture (or Lightroom) don't care whether you have 500 or 500k images in the catalog, it still performs fast and reliable. Until PhaseOne is able to say the same, I'm going to stick to small catalogs and 10k seems to be a good ballpark based on various documented corruption cases. If you want to add more, no one is going to stop you but you'll just be increasing the risk of corruption. Good luck 😄
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  • dredlew
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:
    I've submitted a support question about my original problem (still not resolved) and I submitted a separate question about this ridiculous 10K image limitation. I will update here when/if I hear anything.

    Just the idea that the software would put data at risk because of some arbitrary limitation is offensive to me. For the sake of argument, let's say it's just safer to maintain catalogs with no more than 10,000 images. Would I keep my images in separate catalogs based on the year they were shot? What if I then wanted to find an image with a keyword, but couldn't remember the exact year it was shot? Would I have to perform five or six keyword searches, one for each catalog I suspect the image might be in? Maybe, to be extra safe, I should keep separate catalogs under different user profiles on my computer. And maybe I should shut down and restart the machine every time I want to switch to a new user and access those catalogs.

    You can see how silly this can get.


    Because of the known issues, I keep my catalogs separated into different genres, like "portraits", "events", "models", etc. If you only shoot one genre, then it gets a bit harder to separate that. Maybe you can combine several years or separate by location? This whole workaround has the obvious drawback of search and keywording across all images. If you really have that many images that you want/need to keep in one catalog, then C1 catalogs may not be for you (at the moment). Others have used a sessions workflow, combined with an actual cataloging software. There are ways, just none of them pretty.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Didn't Adobe store 150 million user credentials in a text file?! ( 😂 jk )

    No decent database system would complain about several hundred million entries.

    The problem is that unless you're running that on redundant enterprise grade hardware, data corruption will get you big time, in a matter of time.

    The bigger the catalog, the more file system handling, the more IOPS, the more resources, the more susceptible to hardware/software failure the whole thing becomes.

    Always backup to at least one hot and one cold storage device.

    Cheers,

    -Gus
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:
    [quote="Jonzinator" wrote:
    Only thing I have done at that point is make a stiff drink and restore from a backup. Since C1 stores so much data in its catalog files a backup is essential.

    I have gotten in the habit of backing up after each big editing session. I am also on a MAC so I have a TimeMachine running so the longest I go without a backup is an hour.

    Hope you get it resolved.

    Troy

    I did say that I restored from a TM backup several months old. That should have put me well within the range of useable backups.


    I don't think anyone suggested this yet, but copy the current catalog and the TM catalog to another machine (hope you haven't deleted the current version in the troubleshooting events).

    Perhaps to a windows machine, and see if it opens there.

    Cheers,

    -Gus
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="gusferlizi" wrote:


    I don't think anyone suggested this yet, but copy the current catalog and the TM catalog to another machine (hope you haven't deleted the current version in the troubleshooting events).

    Perhaps to a windows machine, and see if it opens there.

    Cheers,

    -Gus

    Too late.

    I ended up creating a new catalog and then importing the Aperture library that the corrupted CO catalog was based on. Since it was an archive catalog, all of the images in it are older than any new work that might have been lost. The only things I did lose were a few adjustments or variants that I may have created when working on a few older files.

    What's interesting is the Aperture library I had to pull out of obscurity was still perfectly useable. And until I switched to Capture One, Aperture maintained my entire library of well over 90,000 images without ever corrupting any part of the database.

    I swear, if I win the lottery, I'm going to buy the Aperture code from Apple and bring it back to market. There is no reason for version 10(!) of any software to lag behind discontinued software that wasn't developed beyond v3.6.
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  • OptionalAlias
    I've lost several databases due to corruption in C1 and that is in a few months only.

    When some developer take their time to add code which prints a notice about a 10k limit to the logs - it was important enough and seen as something they needed to do.
    When a backup system is designed to constantly be nagging you about backing up your database and catalogs - it was important enough and seen as something they needed to do.
    When support staff mentions that we should keep the databases smaller - it was important enough and seen as something they needed to do.

    One would think that the root cause would be prioritised a bit higher then creating arrangements to get around them?
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:

    Too late.

    I ended up creating a new catalog and then importing the Aperture library that the corrupted CO catalog was based on. Since it was an archive catalog, all of the images in it are older than any new work that might have been lost. The only things I did lose were a few adjustments or variants that I may have created when working on a few older files.

    What's interesting is the Aperture library I had to pull out of obscurity was still perfectly useable. And until I switched to Capture One, Aperture maintained my entire library of well over 90,000 images without ever corrupting any part of the database.

    I swear, if I win the lottery, I'm going to buy the Aperture code from Apple and bring it back to market. There is no reason for version 10(!) of any software to lag behind discontinued software that wasn't developed beyond v3.6.


    Fair enough.

    I can't say as I only tried Aperture once and briefly, but that might really be luck there. 😄

    I had my Lightroom catalog corrupt a couple times in 3 years, and so far C1 has been good for 11 months; fingers crossed.

    Cheers,

    -Gus
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="atenolol" wrote:
    I've lost several databases due to corruption in C1 and that is in a few months only.

    When some developer take their time to add code which prints a notice about a 10k limit to the logs - it was important enough and seen as something they needed to do.
    When a backup system is designed to constantly be nagging you about backing up your database and catalogs - it was important enough and seen as something they needed to do.
    When support staff mentions that we should keep the databases smaller - it was important enough and seen as something they needed to do.

    One would think that the root cause would be prioritised a bit higher then creating arrangements to get around them?


    !!!!
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  • Spicyjello
    Im happy to push the limits. My $ work is all in LR still with well over 100k images. Im working C1 with all my personal images right now making sure it can handle the load. Im currently adding images and will have nearly 60k by the end of the week. So far performance has been great.

    Troy
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Jesus Christ.

    After my recent issues, I started to use the built in backup function of Capture One. Trouble is, it doesn't work.

    Less than 48 hours after the first use of this system, CO crashed and killed the database that I had just re-imported from an Aperture library. I thought, "No big deal. I'll just use the backup catalog that was created last night when I quit the application." So I replaced the corrupt and completely unusable catalog database with a supposed clean version from last night.

    Still won't open the catalog.

    So I replaced the database with a backup from earlier yesterday.

    Still won't open.

    So I replaced that one with the very first backup that I made two nights ago.

    Still. Won't. Open.

    Then I opened Time Machine and restored the backups from the backups.

    Guess what happened. Go ahead. Guess. Yep, that's right: Still can't open the catalog.

    It's been a very, very long time since I've used software this buggy. Unfortunately, I do not like Lightroom.

    Is there ANY other alternative to Lightroom or Capture One??? (Not Photoshop or an equivalent. I want to process RAW photos, not create digital manipulations.)
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  • Eric Nepean
    DxO + Photo Supreme
    DXO + Mylio
    DigiKam
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:

    Is there ANY other alternative to Lightroom or Capture One??? (Not Photoshop or an equivalent. I want to process RAW photos, not create digital manipulations.)


    For Nikon users, Media Pro + Nikon NX-D

    Old school. 😎
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:

    Is there ANY other alternative to Lightroom or Capture One??? (Not Photoshop or an equivalent. I want to process RAW photos, not create digital manipulations.)


    It is very new and somewhat incomplete, but there is ON1 Photo RAW: https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/
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  • Spicyjello
    Sorry you are having such issues. I have tested all the other mentioned editors and I can confidently say there is none perfect. They all have their own issues and none will properly import an existing catalog from another editor. C1 has been the most stable software for me.

    Seems the issue you are experiencing is specific to you and your process. I would suggest rather than importing an entire Apreture library that may have corrupt files or other issues. Create a new C1 Cat and only add the images. Yes this will add some additional work and you will most likely need to re-edit your favorites, but you can always go back to Apreture to export those images as needed.

    Importing is never ideal. I personally tried several time to import my LR library with nothing but headaches. I have now imported most of my files fresh, in excess of 30000 at the point , with no issues what so ever.

    Try smaller batches and work up. I feel confident you will have a better experience baring any computer issues or corrupt files messing with the system.

    Best of Luck!

    Troy



    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:
    Jesus Christ.

    After my recent issues, I started to use the built in backup function of Capture One. Trouble is, it doesn't work.

    Less than 48 hours after the first use of this system, CO crashed and killed the database that I had just re-imported from an Aperture library. I thought, "No big deal. I'll just use the backup catalog that was created last night when I quit the application." So I replaced the corrupt and completely unusable catalog database with a supposed clean version from last night.

    Still won't open the catalog.

    So I replaced the database with a backup from earlier yesterday.

    Still won't open.

    So I replaced that one with the very first backup that I made two nights ago.

    Still. Won't. Open.

    Then I opened Time Machine and restored the backups from the backups.

    Guess what happened. Go ahead. Guess. Yep, that's right: Still can't open the catalog.

    It's been a very, very long time since I've used software this buggy. Unfortunately, I do not like Lightroom.

    Is there ANY other alternative to Lightroom or Capture One??? (Not Photoshop or an equivalent. I want to process RAW photos, not create digital manipulations.)
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:
    [quote="PDBreske" wrote:

    Is there ANY other alternative to Lightroom or Capture One??? (Not Photoshop or an equivalent. I want to process RAW photos, not create digital manipulations.)


    It is very new and somewhat incomplete, but there is ON1 Photo RAW: https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/

    Interesting! I'll look into it.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    [quote="BobRockefeller" wrote:

    It is very new and somewhat incomplete, but there is ON1 Photo RAW: https://www.on1.com/products/photo-raw/


    Okay, this is very nice. I'm playing with the free trial now and it seems pretty robust for a relatively new app. There are a few features that could use some tweaking, but after watching some of the developer videos, they seem very open to feedback from users and have announced some new features that have been requested by users.

    One of these new features is the ability to group any photos in any way you like. Are you listening, Phase One?

    As of today, it doesn't support versions, but that is another feature coming soon.

    I like how fast it is and that I don't have to import anything to start editing. I just point it to my hard drive, memory card, cloud-based media, or whatever and start using it. And as long as the previous software saved metadata in a XMP sidecar file, ON1 Photo RAW will read keywords, ratings, etc. right out of the gate. This might be worth $120.

    We'll see how stable it is when I throw some real big numbers at it.

    Thanks for the tip!
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