Quickly view unedited file?
Hi
I'm new to C1 9 and I might be missing something obvious, so forgive me if I am...
In Aperture, I could easily see the original unedited file. Just press M and the photo reverts to the original state, without any adjustments applied. ress M again and it comes back to the adjusted state.
The only way I can se to do this in C1 is to create a new variant and switch between them. Is that right or is there a simpler way?
Thanks
Paul
I'm new to C1 9 and I might be missing something obvious, so forgive me if I am...
In Aperture, I could easily see the original unedited file. Just press M and the photo reverts to the original state, without any adjustments applied. ress M again and it comes back to the adjusted state.
The only way I can se to do this in C1 is to create a new variant and switch between them. Is that right or is there a simpler way?
Thanks
Paul
0
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That's the best way I know of to compare the whole image.
You can temporary switch off individual settings if you option-click on the reset icon for the tool.0 -
I used to miss the show original as well.
Now i just use the "Reset adjustments" shortcut cmd-r and then "undo" cmd-z.
That works fine for me.
Best...Jan0 -
I did it how Bob said but using the reset adjustment, undo, and redo hotkey could prove to be faster since no mouse usage 💡 0 -
Having moved recently from Aperture 3 I also miss this handy view of the unedited image.
I'd think the best way to implement this for Phase One would be to offer the same shortcut (Alt-Click on the single-Tool-based button) for the overall "Reset Adjustments" button. That would be, at least IMHO, the most obvious and logical method.
Could someone from the C1 support staff tell us whether something like this is already on the list for the near future?
Regards
Jochen0 -
Thanks Jan, that works for me.
Best
Paul0 -
I think every former Aperture-User who just migrated to C1 misses the M key.
And every time one of us is posting this here as a feature request, we are being told that we "don't need this"..... 😕
It's useful. And please: creating a variant which needs to be deleted afterwards and further clogs an ALREADY PRETTY SLOW DATABASE is not a useful solution compared to just pressing a simple before/after switch.
I like to see how far I have taken an image in post processing simply for the fact that I do not like "over-engineered" photographs who cross over to the area of illustrations.0 -
CMD+R + CMD+Z
as pointed out before does job astonishingly well.
To do what you pointed out, it will required to store before preview, which I think further slow down C1.
Yes feature is desired.
But CMD+R + CMD+Z works enough fast at least for my needs.0 -
[quote="Andriy.Okhrimets" wrote:
CMD+R + CMD+Z
as pointed out before does job astonishingly well.
Thanks. But using this is a little like playing with the devil. If you happen to reset your image and then by accident do another action in between before reversing this action you are toast.[quote="Andriy.Okhrimets" wrote:
To do what you pointed out, it will required to store before preview, which I think further slow down C1.
No. There is no "preview" of the master image stored in Aperture. The master RAW file is in fact the only real "image" stored in the database and everything else is just a tiny sidecar file. When you press "M", Aperture temporarily switches off all sidecar files and shows you the image as you imported it and as it was captured by the sensor. I think this is possible due to the way OS X Core Image works. Since C1 uses proprietary image manipulation routines, I guess we will never see a "M" key in C1 as there is no "baseline" to which it can revert to.0 -
I wonder if this would really be so difficult to implement in Capture One?
Other photo editing software has this facility and I find it very quick and useful.
DxO Optics Pro 10 has a "Compare" button on the toolbar which you can configure as "Before Correction" or "Before Correction (with crop)". You then hold the button down to see the baseline image and release to see your edited version again.
ACR has a "Preview" check box on the toolbar which you just uncheck to see the baseline image.
In my view, either of these options is preferable to the suggested work-arounds.0 -
What do people want to see here?
The RAW file with NO EDITS?
The RAW file with whatever default edits and adjustments are applied during import?
The OOC JPG representation of the file as embedded in the RAW file/
Something else (but taking into account similar considerations) if dealing with a DNG, TIFF or JPEG file?
Or maybe the last saved state of the edit rather than the file with barely any edits?
If you want an "instant" view you would have to have that representation on disk (presumably at a suitable resolution) or in memory. And it would have to be available with current working settings - Proof Previews spring to mind.
The implication is that as one started (or threatened to start) looking at an image 2 versions would need to be created by C1. Current state of edit and whatever has been decided to be the "Base" state of edit - perhaps nothing, perhaps an image with a crop applied and a Style maybe and some lens correction .... different results for different folks I would guess.
In effect this would be like having 2 variants but with each variant requiring a Preview file to be available for instant switching.
If you don't do that then you either keep a the preview in memory or recalculate it each time you swap between images. The first approach would require storage capacity on disk, the second would suggest additional processing demand - possibly quite a lot of demand for anyone who like to flick between images regularly and constantly.
In which case I really cannot see the problem with creating a "new" variant and switching the display between the two with a single directional key stroke.
Better still, using that idea one is not limited to comparing the current edit with just the denuded initial representation. Any and all previous versions that you may have felt like keeping can be compared, instantly replacing one with another.
If they can identify a hot key that is free to use I am sure Phase could provide what would effectively be a reset function that does not risk becoming permanent. But really, what would be the point when it already exists in other ways that, one way or another, most likely require less processing overhead and offer wider potential use?
I have another application that in many ways is similar to C1 in that it offer the options for multiple versions of an image with different version applied by and edit file and, in its case, a thumbnail file. It has a "Show Original" button. I cannot remember the last time I felt it was useful. It became redundant, for me, when I discovered the enormous benefits of using versions or, as they are called in C1, variants.
For other packages where edits are applied in a different way there may well be a case for having a "Show Original" view button. But for C1 and programs what work in a similar way there seems to be little point when other options are available and offer more flexibility.0 -
What I do is:
- create or keep a variant with the snapshot I want to compare against. Unadjusted or adjusted.
- create a variant to work with. New or clone.
- select both.
- toggle 'edit all variants' off.
- choose for primary view, not multi view.
- adjust my new variant.
- use <CMD> + <LEFT> and <CMD> + <RIGHT> to switch back and forth.
This suits my workflow. If I need to compare, I rarely compare to the initial raw. I usually compare to a starting point.
And I avoid to use 'reset variant' and 'undo' for this.
Regards,
Hans0 -
What I do is:
- create or keep a variant with the snapshot I want to compare against. Unadjusted or adjusted.
- create a variant to work with. New or clone.
- select both.
- toggle 'edit all variants' off.
- choose for primary view, not multi view.
- adjust my new variant.
- use <CMD> + <LEFT> and <CMD> + <RIGHT> to switch back and forth.
This suits my workflow. If I need to compare, I rarely compare to the initial raw. I usually compare to a starting point.
And I avoid to use 'reset variant' and 'undo' for this.
Regards,
Hans0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
The RAW file with NO EDITS?
Yes. This.
I don't think this is so hard to grasp considering that almost all other RAW tools out there have such a function on board.
Have you ever double clicked on a RAW file in the finder? The image you are then about to see is Core Images interpretation of the RAW file. This is the baseline and C1 could simply show this. No need for any variants and interpretations and whatever. It's all there in the OS (if we forget for a moment that this won't work in the Win-Version of C1).0 -
[quote="EnderWiggins" wrote:
ha[quote="SFA" wrote:
The RAW file with NO EDITS?
Yes. This.
I don't think this is so hard to grasp considering that almost all other RAW tools out there have such a function on board.
Have you ever double clicked on a RAW file in the finder? The image you are then about to see is Core Images interpretation of the RAW file. This is the baseline and C1 could simply show this. No need for any variants and interpretations and whatever. It's all there in the OS (if we forget for a moment that this won't work in the Win-Version of C1).
No, it's easy to grasp.
I have been a long time user of another app (before C1) that has exactly that feature and I never used it.
The base image, before any changes - like crops and so on, base colour curve, base sharpening, these days - lens corrections, and so on - is not much use in my opinion. With them ... well, maybe some use.
More likely I would want something that was my previously saved edit point. How much have the latest changes improved (or damaged) what had already been done?
I can, in the other program, look at a history of changes and go back to a specific change. Sound great? Well, in some situations it is quite useful only because the results are stacked and then only if the change applied point ids very clear form the stack listing - which is may not be if applying a style or copying from another image.
By far the best way I can find is to take a snap shot of the edits to date for each file and be able to quickly view them, switching from one to another.
Using C1 that is exactly what I can do with variants but C1 offers me more ways to present that usage and more effectively. Better still I can put images up side by side and compare effects as I work on them - including the "original" in whatever state I wish it to be.
I suspect that is may be less system processing overhead as well, on balance.
The fact that other applications have such a function, no doubt a legacy of the good old destructive editing days when it potentially offered some value when hacking jpgs, does not lead me to think I will find a use for it. On the other hand I fully appreciate that people generally do not like change in their lives. (For the record, I would not exclude myself from that observation.)
But of course we will all have different views about most things and how best to manipulate software when editing a photograph is clearly one of them.
Grant0 -
Saved edit points would be a great feature! 0 -
[quote="John Doe" wrote:
Saved edit points would be a great feature!
That's what I thought - but no, that implementation was (and still is) thorough but nothing like as useful as one might have hoped and, frankly, the edit history became huge quickly if you really worked the image. If you were gentle with it and had few changes .... well, the history became somewhat pointless. Just didn't need it.
Storing a key development point by using the equivalent of what in C1 is called a "Variant" was immensely useful just as it is in C1. And C1 offers more options for comparison. Each variant is a history,
What might be interesting is to be able to see the adjustment differences between the two variants.
I say "might" because although it sounds like a useful comparison to be making I not really sure it is.
Would it be meaningful? How might we interpret some numbers into how the image looks different.?
Isn't this photo editing stuff supposed to be a creative visual process for all but specialised technical requirements?
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
frankly, the edit history became huge quickly if you really worked the image.
That seems like an odd complaint since pretty much every pixel editor offers a history that can be reset to any point in the editing process and some workflow tools offer the same. While I no longer use it, Lightroom offers such a history.
The idea that the history will become too large to use does not seem to bother other tools.0 -
[quote="MikeFromMesa" wrote:
[quote="SFA" wrote:
frankly, the edit history became huge quickly if you really worked the image.
That seems like an odd complaint since pretty much every pixel editor offers a history that can be reset to any point in the editing process and some workflow tools offer the same. While I no longer use it, Lightroom offers such a history.
The idea that the history will become too large to use does not seem to bother other tools.
Hi Mike,
It probably does not bother the tool but what use is it to the user?
If you spend a few minutes with a slider trying a few tweaks you could, potentially and logically, get an entry for every instance when you pause the slider for a second or two.
How would you know which, if any, was the one you want?
Just because a tool exists does not mean that people use it - especially in software.
For applications that work on the "old" way - play around in memory and then remember to commit the changes (Save or Write usually) before moving in the concept could make some sense. Good sense in fact. But for constantly interactive applications it strikes me that for most users it is just a tickbox development. One more item on a list of "Must Haves" that we are told we need but actually never use and so do not need.
So why care?
Well it means there is an operational overhead to run with it, it's more lines of code to go wrong and potentially create problems in seemingly unrelated areas, it adds to the maintenance and development team work loads and to all documentation and therefore costs everyone something - either money or maybe some delayed development that most people could really use.
Want a checkpoint on your editing journey? Create a variant. Job done. Instantly accessible. Directly comparable in screen. The same effect without the overhead AND it takes you directly to a point that you felt made a good reference point on the editing journey. Or maybe just where you took a break for lunch .... 😉
Grant0
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