Any Changes for We Who Use Only Cataloging Functions?
I don't use Capture One for any image modification or other post-processing. I only use it for its sophisticated cataloging capabilities.
But my 30-day demo of version 12.0 makes me think there are zero changes in that area. All the new features have to do with post-processing. Even my little suggestions have gone unaddressed. (no way to add keywords during import?)
My conclusion: there's no reason for me to upgrade.
Or am I missing something?
But my 30-day demo of version 12.0 makes me think there are zero changes in that area. All the new features have to do with post-processing. Even my little suggestions have gone unaddressed. (no way to add keywords during import?)
My conclusion: there's no reason for me to upgrade.
Or am I missing something?
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As far as I can see (and I have run the beta) your assessment is right in that there are no functional changes to the cataloging features. I can not judge any under the hood change, however. 0 -
In my test run of just a few minutes, I saw nothing to suggest less visible changes. Runs at about the same speed, as far as I could tell... 0 -
C1's primary purpose is raw image processing for commercial or studio session photographers who work on a "session" for a client and generally never revisit those images from an organization standpoint. The catalog was added as an afterthought. If you purchased C1 for cataloging only, then you probably wasted your money. C1's catalog might have some useful functionality but has many critical flaws and limitations compared to dedicated DAM/catalog software such as Media Pro, which Phase One killed a few months ago. These limitations make C1 unsuitable for managing large active collections (e.g., stock collections, archives). (See my list of disparities on the Media Pro forum.)
I suggest you check out the Media Pro forum thread "Where to, now?" for suggestions for true DAM software options.0 -
I came from Aperture, which I found to be exactly what I needed but finally no longer supported my cameras. C1 is very close to the Aperture interface.
I've tried other DAM software, including Media Pro, PhotoMechanic, Lightroom, etc. but C1 was superior in important ways.
I'll check out the thread you recommended. Thanks!0 -
[quote="joeholmes" wrote:
I came from Aperture, which I found to be exactly what I needed but finally no longer supported my cameras. C1 is very close to the Aperture interface.
I've tried other DAM software, including Media Pro, PhotoMechanic, Lightroom, etc. but C1 was superior in important ways.
I'm curious... Which C1 catalog features are superior? How large is your image collection? Do you notice any issues with speed or performance?0 -
It's been too long since I used the other applications to remember my complaints. But one of the only drawbacks I find in C1 is its speed. It's much slower than Aperture at, for instance, loading a catalog or displaying image thumbnails. My main database of all images is around 4TB, so to speed things up I created smaller catalogs by year.
My only other complaints are minor: can't add keywords at import, can't display two import sessions at the same time, a few others. I sent a list of suggested interface tweaks to the engineers, but they didn't make it into this upgrade.0 -
[quote="joeholmes" wrote:
It's been too long since I used the other applications to remember my complaints. But one of the only drawbacks I find in C1 is its speed. It's much slower than Aperture at, for instance, loading a catalog or displaying image thumbnails. My main database of all images is around 4TB, so to speed things up I created smaller catalogs by year.
That seems like an onerous workaround. What if you wanted to locate all the images in your collection (from different years) with the same keyword? As far as I know, C1 doesn't allow searches across catalogs.
A real DAM/catalog would maintain a proper database that doesn't rescan its contents each time you open the catalog to view all the images in your collection.[quote="joeholmes" wrote:
My only other complaints are minor: can't add keywords at import, can't display two import sessions at the same time, a few others. I sent a list of suggested interface tweaks to the engineers, but they didn't make it into this upgrade.
Do you have monochrome scans? Do you have small images? C1 does not recognize monochrome files or very small images as legitimate files, and so will not let you add keywords to them. Those are not minor issues. Any proper DAM/catalog would allow you add keywords to any supported file type regardless of color space or file size.0 -
Yes, using multiple catalogs is an awkward workaround. Speed is a serious drawback to C1.
As for keywords, my complaint is that I cannot add keywords at the import stage. I can add a description that will be applied to all imported images, but no keywords. Would that be an extremely simple tweak to the interface?
Another complaint: There are times when I import from two or more cards while I'm working on a single project. But those imports cannot be selected to view all at once for, for instance, adding keywords, comparing, etc. etc. Why not let me select two or more imports under Recent Imports? Again, should be a simple fix.
Yet another: This one is harder to describe, but equally annoying. I'd like to select a number of thumbnails from a new import. In Apple's standard interface, I can select a contiguous group, then select another group not contiguous with the first by holding the command key, selecting the first image in the second group, then holding the shift key and selecting the rest of the second group, leaving items unselected between the two groups. This works in the OS X Finder, it worked in Aperture, it works in word processing apps. But it does NOT work in C1. The shift-click as the final step ends up selecting ALL the images back through the first group. That's just broken. Should be fixed.
That's just the most annoying of the quirks in C1.
I read the thread you linked, but it wasn't much help. Media Pro has been discontinued, and the other options all seem to have serious drawbacks according to the posters.0 -
[quote="joeholmes" wrote:
Yet another: This one is harder to describe, but equally annoying. I'd like to select a number of thumbnails from a new import. In Apple's standard interface, I can select a contiguous group, then select another group not contiguous with the first by holding the command key, selecting the first image in the second group, then holding the shift key and selecting the rest of the second group, leaving items unselected between the two groups. This works in the OS X Finder, it worked in Aperture, it works in word processing apps. But it does NOT work in C1. The shift-click as the final step ends up selecting ALL the images back through the first group. That's just broken. Should be fixed.
That's just the most annoying of the quirks in C1.
Wow, I didn't know about that. I use non-contiguous selections all the time in Media Pro. Not being able to do that would really handicap my workflow. That's a really bad design flaw.[quote="joeholmes" wrote:
I read the thread you linked, but it wasn't much help. Media Pro has been discontinued, and the other options all seem to have serious drawbacks according to the posters.
I've updated my list of options on the first page of the Where to, now? thread. If you don't need web galleries, you might consider Photo Supreme or iMatch (via virtual Windows). Those appear to be the best single user "DAM only" options on the market now. I'm waiting for Photo Mechanic 6, which will have a catalog module for the first time. It's supposed to be released this month (Dec 2018). Of course, I'm sure it will not have everything I need/want, but I'm hoping it will be as good as Photo Supreme or iMatch, and I think it will inherit PM's web gallery generator.0 -
my experience between Aperture and Capture one has been quite different. I used to time things between Capture One, Aperture, and Lightroom and always found that Capture one was the fastest at both raw processing by a long shot, to speed in the library by a too small a merging to really measure confidently, so I was always pleased with the performance of C1. What I found frustrating on the other hand are these strange over sights (in my mind) about small but irritating omissions in the C1 way of working.
For example, the inability of C1 to change and customize the exif information is maddening. Also, they keyboarding is prehistoric. I wish Phase One would cheat and copy the flexibility, utility and speed of PhotoMechanic's key-wording, structured keywords, code replacements, and the IPTC metadata management. Capture one is so far behind, and doesn't ever seem to show that it is looking into new ways of working faster in those areas.
For several upgrades now, it has struck me that it's the same program, artificially pushed out as a new release to garner a revenue stream, but with no really fresh ideas, features or streamlining of how we work. It's mostly still the same program as version six, but we are always told how the IQ is so much better. Well, sure it is, and things like layers are slowly dragging it's utility out of the dark ages, but I feel more and more strongly with each new "upgrade" that Capture One is not really aware of what else is out there. The competition is doing some amazing things, making our workflow better and better and coming up with new ideas. Phase One can't even fix irritations like full screen being fully sticky - over four updates. I was going to wait until I had more free time to test out this new version, but instead I'm going to try it out in later today with a new attitude. If it does not blow me away in the first little while, I'm moving on to newer, more "with it" software makers. They don't even support the new Apple HEIF format. The condescending reply to my query on that matter made me think that, progressive, and with the times, they are not.
So expecting new catalogue features may be a for fools.
I hope I'm wrong.0 -
For me, importing into a catalog is much quicker. Not a functional change but welcome nonetheless. 0 -
For several upgrades now, it has struck me that it's the same program, artificially pushed out as a new release to garner a revenue stream, but with no really fresh ideas, features or streamlining of how we work. It's mostly still the same program as version six...
Just a selection of a few of the features you wouldn't have if you were still on Version 6:
- gradient masks
- local adjustment of white balance
- cloning and healing layers
- output proofing
- luma curves
- creating a masked layer from a colour selection
- layer opacity control
- normalisation tool
- luminosity masks
- radial gradient tool
If you don't like it, there are other apps out there you could try instead.
Ian0 -
[quote="syncrasy" wrote:
C1's primary purpose is raw image processing for commercial or studio session photographers who work on a "session" for a client and generally never revisit those images from an organization standpoint. The catalog was added as an afterthought. If you purchased C1 for cataloging only, then you probably wasted your money. C1's catalog might have some useful functionality but has many critical flaws and limitations compared to dedicated DAM/catalog software such as Media Pro, which Phase One killed a few months ago. These limitations make C1 unsuitable for managing large active collections (e.g., stock collections, archives). (See my list of disparities on the Media Pro forum.)
I suggest you check out the Media Pro forum thread "Where to, now?" for suggestions for true DAM software options.
Wow. I am new to CO and my biggest gripe is the DAM in CO.
You would think, since they discontinued Media Pro, they would incorporate the DAM cataloging features of MP into CO 12. The fact that they had a DAM program like MP makes you wonder... They have the ability to create, from what I hear, a great DAM, and to not put a good DAM in CO 12 is in my opinion insane... Hopefully with 12.1 or 12.2 or 12.x they will. By the time they decided to kill off MP they may have been too far into the development cycle of CO 12 to incorporate it in the .0 release.
So they do know how to write a DAM that can process thumbnails? WOW.0 -
I have been having problems with CO to create thumbnails. I have a ticket open with Phase One and was basically told that Capture One will not generate a thumbnail until you actually view and edit a photo.
So if you have thousands of photos that you import into CO and the photos are on an offline drive, if you do not have the drive plugged in. the DAM in CO is DAM worthless.
This is a PROFESSIONAL Raw Photo editor.... Annually it costs almost TWICE as much as Adobe photography suite, which has a decent DAM in LR... So do I spend more hours of trying to import my photos into CO and buy a sub, or give up on it and just stick with LR.... Dont Want to, I love the editing capabilities of CO, but thumbnails for a photo catalog should not be optional, and should not be created as you view each photo in the editor.
I have read the catalog function of CO has been a weak point and yes... yes it is..0 -
[quote="JTalbertPhoto" wrote:
I have been having problems with CO to create thumbnails. I have a ticket open with Phase One and was basically told that Capture One will not generate a thumbnail until you actually view and edit a photo.
DO I recall correctly that you are importing catalogued images from LR?
Did the comment about not creating thumbnails until the image has been edited refer specifically to that utility process?
It would not be normal in a typical new images import to a catalog or session in C1 where the Import process (or in a session the act of opening a folder even without using import) will invoke processes to create thumbnails and previews.
Maybe a mass import of referenced files (which might well take some time to generate previews and thumbnails for perhaps tens of thousands of images) is treated differently. There would be no C1 edit information to work with one assumes.
However, from what I recall of others writing about their experiences, some processing took place and previews and thumbnails were created so what you wrote above about the response from support makes the response sound odd.
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
[quote="JTalbertPhoto" wrote:
I have been having problems with CO to create thumbnails. I have a ticket open with Phase One and was basically told that Capture One will not generate a thumbnail until you actually view and edit a photo.
DO I recall correctly that you are importing catalogued images from LR?
Did the comment about not creating thumbnails until the image has been edited refer specifically to that utility process?
It would not be normal in a typical new images import to a catalog or session in C1 where the Import process (or in a session the act of opening a folder even without using import) will invoke processes to create thumbnails and previews.
Maybe a mass import of referenced files (which might well take some time to generate previews and thumbnails for perhaps tens of thousands of images) is treated differently. There would be no C1 edit information to work with one assumes.
However, from what I recall of others writing about their experiences, some processing took place and previews and thumbnails were created so what you wrote above about the response from support makes the response sound odd.
Grant
Yes first I did import a LR catalog. But since I had issues with thumbnail generation I created another catalog and imported the photos outside of my LR catalog and still had the same issue.
My photos import into a new CO catalog. The previews generate, but unless I open up browser view in CO and scroll through my photos thumbnails never generate. I had a catalog open last night for over an hour, sometimes editing a photo, other times just letting it sit there open, to see if it would generate a thumbnail but it did not.
I had my source drive attached, and CO could see all my photos.
I am again importing one of my catalogs, outside of my old LR catalog, this time I have unchecked the option to copy over the adjustments, to see if somehow with importing photos over, with existing adjustments may be a cause.
It's just very strange.0 -
Strange indeed.
The Thumbnail process usually runs as a batch job in the background. Or at least it does on my Windows PC and as far as I know it is the same on a Mac.
If one clicks on an image before the thumbnail has been loaded (or generated and loaded I guess in some situations, the ere si a short wait and then the thumbnail for the selected image is produced. That, I think, is likely what you are experiencing when you click on the image. A sort of immediate override that temporarily suspends the background task to produce what you need.
Now it seems you are not alone in having this problem but as the entire Mac user population of the form has not (yet?) piled in on the threads, presumably it does not affect everyone.
One that basis I think the more information that can be provided to the C1 Support Team the better the chance that they will be able to spot the factors that are common to all the non-generating systems.
Presumably this sort of activity is already happening but if not anyone with the problem should be encouraged to create a Support Case and send in log files.
Grant0 -
[quote="SFA" wrote:
Strange indeed.
The Thumbnail process usually runs as a batch job in the background. Or at least it does on my Windows PC and as far as I know it is the same on a Mac.
If one clicks on an image before the thumbnail has been loaded (or generated and loaded I guess in some situations, the ere si a short wait and then the thumbnail for the selected image is produced. That, I think, is likely what you are experiencing when you click on the image. A sort of immediate override that temporarily suspends the background task to produce what you need.
Now it seems you are not alone in having this problem but as the entire Mac user population of the form has not (yet?) piled in on the threads, presumably it does not affect everyone.
One that basis I think the more information that can be provided to the C1 Support Team the better the chance that they will be able to spot the factors that are common to all the non-generating systems.
Presumably this sort of activity is already happening but if not anyone with the problem should be encouraged to create a Support Case and send in log files.
Grant
I have created and re-created my catalogs numerous times, trying different things each time to see if I can find out whats happening and I am trying to give Phase One as much info that I can with everything that I am doing.
Again I am creating another brand new catalog. Importing photos only, not importing a LR catalog, not importing any adjustment data to see what happens.
It just finished importing 26k files. Its building previews now.0 -
[quote="JTalbertPhoto" wrote:
It just finished importing 26k files. Its building previews now.
It could take several hours.... even a full night !! Let C1 finish the job.0 -
I see the problem, besides feeling that phones are not a "real" photographic tool - some of the posters here are unfamiliar with HEIC. That is pretty clear by suggesting that it could be converted to DNG and not realizing that it is a lossless or lossy format, your choice, similar to Nikon raw files.
As best as I know, DNG does not support transparency, as HEIC does, and though it will read the file, it will fill the transparent with white pixels. At least that's the word I got four weeks back.
Also, I'm not sure about this, but I don't believe DNG supports Apple's motion technology, but perhaps I'm wrong or it is coming, and it's nice that as of a while ago, Lightroom DOES support HEIC natively. I haven't played with it yet, as I don't favor Adobes forced move to subscription, while there is reasonable choice. I just started my 30 trial for C1 v12 and no bugs of any sort in the hour or so that I've played with it, but neither have I noticed any real difference in the menu system as I expected to from the bullet points about this release. That in my book is a positive, not a negative. So back on the fence for me, but with current HEIC support, Lightroom may get consideration again, something unimaginable formerly.
Part of the bigger picture for me, and many others I suspect, is that after retiring, and subsequently neglecting photography because it still felt mostly like work, it's now becoming a pleasure. My wife is a very good photographer, but unlike myself and many other men, she disdains technology for technologies sake and doesn't enjoy thrashing about with programs that are more complex because they have high end features for any sort of set of photographic possibilities. Heck she has refused to upgrade her D3 for all these years, despite my constant suggestions about "better". I bought her a D810 - she made me return it. She has C1 on her machine, and I showed her the basics - she uses Apples Photos. And when we come back from a weekend of shooting, there are always several dozens, to several hundreds iPhone images from both of our phones. The point is that there is a huge slice of photographic enthusiasts for whom the iPhone or other brand is a significant portion of their photographic output and support for a format which is nearly revolutionary would open up the customer potential for Phase one, and maybe they would not have to increase the prices each artificial yearly cycle by such a whopper amount.
It's not just about this specific format, imho, but shows a bit how Phase One is or is not, adapting to new times and understanding how a broad array of potential customers have software desires out of the narrow box of current Phase One aficionados. And for me specifically it means I better love this release enough to continue keeping at least two software packages for the files I want to work on, or those that my wife may send me to tweak. So the current Phase One path is fragmentation for me, and a hard sell for who knows how many potential others. To have no interest in supporting the core of the number one image making device on this planet, is opportunity missed. A significant miss.0 -
From what I know about HEIF files (not much yet) they could be a really interesting, if possibly slightly technically complex, offering - just as soon as they have much wider support in Windows and Android and, perhaps, Linux systems.
There are other options around and being developed. Possibly even more interesting.
I don't think most Phone users have any desire to do a lot of editing other than maybe apply a few filters and maybe a crop. If most are like the active phone camera users in my family the objective is to shoot and share. Serious editing is not something they are keen about. I think we have 1 iPhone user. The others are Android.
I shoot RAW (dng) on my Android phone but I don't really consider it a serious image producing device. It does offer convenience though.
If I were a developer offering high end support to pros via freely available technical support the thought of trying to pitch a product to millions of phone users without an option to segregate one set of users from the other would be, shall we say, a significant concern. I'm not sure where the commercial benefits might be for being an early support in a market that appears to have a number of competing offerings in this area of functionality.
Personally I would in any case still prefer to shoot RAW anyway.
As you may guess, I'm not an Apple user.
Grant0
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