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Media Pro refugees: What are our DAM demands?

Kommentare

59 Kommentare

  • Paul Dymond
    Yeah sorry, sunsets means subsets. It looks like they do map across although with different names from what everyone is saying. I received a reply from Phase One to simply say that it will still be available for download but doesn’t say whether the software can still be activated or not. I am presuming not as I can’t imagine they’re just giving it away for free now.
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  • Paul Dymond
    Thanks for all the comments everyone. I realize it’s not going away, and for my own personal catalog that’s fine, I will continue to just use Media Pro SE but I build image databases for clients. These clients are mostly businesses in the government and tourism sectors that have large image collections, often with many duplicates, and Media Pro is (was!) a perfect solution for them and me. I can still create a catalog for them using Media Pro but presumably after the trial period of 30days is over they can no longer access their catalog. Which pretty much renders it useless for my purposes. It sounds like CO is nowhere near as capable a database programme as is Media Pro and although it is highly scriptable that is only if you are using a Mac, all of my clients use Windows systems. So I have just lost tens of thousands of dollars of work and my entire business with no forward warning whatsoever and am not too happy about it. I’m thinking that maybe I can build the catalogs in Media Pro and then import them into a CO catalog so that my Catalog Sets and child Catalog Sets will appear but the lack of an ability to email multiple images at once is a big loss. Not sure what to do.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Thanks for all the comments everyone. I realize it’s not going away, and for my own personal catalog that’s fine, I will continue to just use Media Pro SE but I build image databases for clients. These clients are mostly businesses in the government and tourism sectors that have large image collections, often with many duplicates, and Media Pro is (was!) a perfect solution for them and me. I can still create a catalog for them using Media Pro but presumably after the trial period of 30days is over they can no longer access their catalog. Which pretty much renders it useless for my purposes. It sounds like CO is nowhere near as capable a database programme as is Media Pro and although it is highly scriptable that is only if you are using a Mac, all of my clients use Windows systems. So I have just lost tens of thousands of dollars of work and my entire business with no forward warning whatsoever and am not too happy about it. I’m thinking that maybe I can build the catalogs in Media Pro and then import them into a CO catalog so that my Catalog Sets and child Catalog Sets will appear but the lack of an ability to email multiple images at once is a big loss. Not sure what to do.


    Paul,

    Have you asked the questions of Phase yet?


    Grant
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    I can still create a catalog for them using Media Pro but presumably after the trial period of 30days is over they can no longer access their catalog. Which pretty much renders it useless for my purposes.


    Can't your clients use the "reader" version of Media Pro. I think it's a free download.

    "Media Pro SE 2.3 Reader for Windows"

    https://www.phaseone.com/en/Download/Software-Archive/Media-Pro-archive.aspx
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  • Paul Dymond
    I have asked Phase and the only answer I get is that Media Pro SE will no longer be sold but will always be available for download. No matter how I word the question. In other words it won’t be available for new users. And you’re right, there is a free Reader software but it’s pretty much useless. You can’t do anything with it apart from see the catalog really.
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    And you’re right, there is a free Reader software but it’s pretty much useless. You can’t do anything with it apart from see the catalog really.


    Ah, I understand now. You are/were building working/editable catalogs, not just client views. Wow. I really feel bad for you. Maybe you could ask Phase One to allow multiple installations on your license so that your clients can continue working on your license. Maybe a long shot, but considering they killed the product, they won't be losing any money.
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  • Paul Dymond
    That’s right, I build working catalogs for clients to manage their image libraries so my entire business is sunk basically. I have messaged Phase One Support to see if they can extend my licence. Thank you so much, that is a great suggestion. In the meantime I guess I have no choice but to start convincing any clients going forward to use Capture One.
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  • SFA
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    That’s right, I build working catalogs for clients to manage their image libraries so my entire business is sunk basically. I have messaged Phase One Support to see if they can extend my licence. Thank you so much, that is a great suggestion. In the meantime I guess I have no choice but to start convincing any clients going forward to use Capture One.


    Or a completely different product - I think you have to consider that option if it is a business continuity matter.

    Or perhaps put in a bid to obtain the software along with, perhaps, a new owner?

    Just throwing some ideas in the air. After all Phase bought the product pre-owned!

    Nik software was sucked into Google for a few years before being spat out again and passing to DxO.

    All sorts of things can happen.


    Grant
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  • Paul Dymond
    Thanks Grant, you’re right of course. A completely new product might be the only option but Media Pro was always the best option for my clients who don’t need the ability to manipulate images, just find them and use them. Any and all suggestions for alternative software is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately subscription based programmers such as Lightroom aren’t an option as most companies only want to pay once and forget. I’m playing around with Capture One at the moment and the Library module doesn’t seem too bad.
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  • Eric Valk
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    I’m playing around with Capture One at the moment and the Library module doesn’t seem too bad.

    Don't neglect to check it out with a catalog of your maximum size. There can be slow down issues with over 10,000 images.
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  • Robert Edwards
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Unfortunately subscription based programmers such as Lightroom aren’t an option as most companies only want to pay once and forget.

    Hi Paul,

    I would never recommend Capture One for DAM alone, as it now stands.

    The DAM features in Lightroom are far better and free. The alpha testers for iView and Media Pro moved to LR and their influence has been instrumental in making Lightroom more robust for DAM. There is also better documentation and video content for using LR as a DAM.

    Some caveats for recommending Capture One or Lightroom to clients as a Media Pro replacement:
    • It's a single user program

    • The main features are image processing

    • Due to above, UI can be daunting

    • Both catalogs are read/write so people can accidentally change them, whereas...

    • No Catalog Reader (LR did have a 3rd party one but no more) for viewing only

    • Designed as single catalog programs. Multiple catalogs are a hack to improve performance

    • Less powerful search

    • DAM not as "scriptable"/automated (LR does have far more DAM plugins than C1)

    The future is cloud storage for assets and that's where Lightroom is heading. True DAM applications are already there but as raw shooters Adobe will still keep Lightroom on our desktops. Especially for Australians and the NBN!
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  • Paul Dymond
    Thanks Robert, I thought about LR as well. I have it on my computer in my Adobe bundle but it’s not really part of my workflow. Clients balk at it for the reason of it only being available on one computer per licence, and the whole subscription thing. Most companies realise they have a problem managing their images but don’t really want to spend money to fix it. Media Pro was always an easy sell because it made everything really simple for them, saved them time and money and they could pay once and use it forever. And I’m in Cairns so cloud based stuff is pretty hopeless up here. To tell you the truth what I’m leaning towards doing is using Media Pro to build the database - get rid of duplicates, rename generic camera file names, add folder names to keywords etc and then put images into Catalog Sets. Much easier to do this in Media Pro. Then when I’ve got it all cleaned up I can import it into Capture One where the catalog set structure will sill appear the same. To be honest all my clients really want to do is find stuff quickly and easily and use the images seamlessly. No email button is a nuisance but I can get around that by getting them to Export to files on their desktop and send it from there. An extra step to be sure but doable. The speed issue is a bit of a worry but I imported 55,000 images into a Capture One catalog and it was certainly slower but not too bad. Anyway I’m thinking I might be able to convince clients to shell out $429 for a three seat licence on Capture One. A workaround until the DAM capabilities in Capture One improve.
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  • Franz J Wenzel
    On a Windows platform, have you looked into iMatch from photools.com?

    No personal experience with it, just heard good things about it...(I am on apple/Mac platform only)

    Cheers,
    Franz
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  • Paul Dymond
    Thanks Franz, this looks really nice.
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  • Robert Edwards
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Clients balk at it for the reason of it only being available on one computer per licence, and the whole subscription thing.

    Your clients do not have to pay a Creative Cloud subscription to use Lightroom for DAM. Have a read of Peter's blog post I linked to above: http://thedambook.com/lightroom-never-fully-expires/

    Lightroom has an email preset built-in.

    Photo Supreme was inspired by iView and is worth looking at. Hert does a great job - but some IT departments in government I've dealt with frowned at lone developer applications.
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  • Paul Dymond
    Wow, you learn something new every day! Alright, this definitely warrants further investigation. Now I just have to learn how to use Lightroom by the look of it! Thank you so much for the help everybody. I kind of feel like I hijacked the thread but this has been really enlightening.
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Wow, you learn something new every day! Alright, this definitely warrants further investigation. Now I just have to learn how to use Lightroom by the look of it! Thank you so much for the help everybody.

    Another thanks to Robert for the Lightroom tip. I never liked Lightroom's UI, but will now reconsider this out of necessity.

    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    I kind of feel like I hijacked the thread...

    No worries. There's a thread in the Media Pro section more directly related to finding a DAM replacement for Media Pro (if you want to continue the discussion there): "Where to, now?"

    I'll re-post Robert's Lightroom tip there, too, if he hasn't already.
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  • Paul Dymond
    Cheers for that, and to bring the topic back on track some things I find indispensable. The Find Similar items function, the Find Missing Items function, the email button (the ability to send multiple emails at once, including as a separate email for each file for clients with slow servers), the script which lets you place the folder names as keywords, and of course the amazing Find function.
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  • Eric Valk
    Hi Paul
    I assume Fund Missing Items means "find items where the original file cannot be located". If so, I have a script for this that can be compiled and added to COs script menu. I will post shortly.

    "Find Function" I have a script that finds which Capture One user collections images are located in. I will post shortly.

    I have found how to write an Applescript to send an email for multiple images (the mechanism is alittle obscure). Let me know if you would like me to write such a script. This requires a temporary folder somewhere, please suggest a location for the temporary folder.

    "Copy Folder Name to Key words". This is an easy script to write. Suppose that the image is located thus:
    ~/Folder1/folder2/folder3/theimagefile
    Then the key word would be: Folder_folder3 (flat structure)
    Or??
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  • Paul Dymond
    Thank you for the kind offer Eric, yes fund does mean find. Although it would be nice if somebody would fund my missing images! Excuse the ignorance but are scripts only available for Macs? I have seen lots of references to Applescrips and assumed it was only for Macs. I’m operating on Windows.
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  • Paul Dymond
    Another thing I find useful is the ability to show certain features under the file name in the thumbnail view. I always display the pixel dimensions (to quickly locate the high res files), as well as Catalog Sets so I can quickly see which images have not yet been put in a Catalog Set. Being able to search for images that are not already in a Catalog Set is also indispensable.
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Another thing I find useful is the ability to show certain features under the file name in the thumbnail view. I always display the pixel dimensions (to quickly locate the high res files), as well as Catalog Sets so I can quickly see which images have not yet been put in a Catalog Set. Being able to search for images that are not already in a Catalog Set is also indispensable.


    Agreed. The View options are indispensable. And in List view you can fit more items across the top to make columns. For me it's easier to scan columns for empty fields than rows of thumbs. But that's what's so great about Media Pro—its flexibility, allowing different ways to accomplish a task.
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  • Eric Valk
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Thank you for the kind offer Eric, yes fund does mean find. Although it would be nice if somebody would fund my missing images! Excuse the ignorance but are scripts only available for Macs? I have seen lots of references to Applescrips and assumed it was only for Macs. I’m operating on Windows.


    Hi Paul
    You will note that PhaseOne has two forums, one for Windows users and one for Mac users. This thread is in the Mac forum. 😊

    AppleScript is a proprietary Apple product that only runs on Apple Computers.

    AFAIK Capture One for Windows offically has no scripting feature.

    Over the last several years, Apple has started to develop scripting infrastructure for Javascript. Javascript runs on Windows, OS X (Mac) and Linux. Applescript functions can be mapped to Javascript, and can be triggered by Javascript.

    It would be interesting to see if Capture One 11 for Windows will respond to a Javascript command.
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  • RobiWan
    [quote="Eric Nepean" wrote:

    It would be interesting to see if Capture One 11 for Windows will respond to a Javascript command.


    Javascript on Windows is I mean not the best idea. The only one scripting language with complete interface to OS is PowerShell. Everything else has restrictions somewhere else.
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  • syncrasy
    Another demand that I think is reasonable (as another user suggested in the Media Pro forum): a free license for Capture One.

    The argument is straightforward: Media Pro customers paid for a product that they believed was a viable product. Phase One suddenly discontinued the product. Phase One is therefore morally, and perhaps legally, obligated to provide a free license for the product the company recommends customers use as a replacement (Capture One).

    I suggest Media Pro customers use the Support ticket system to officially make this request.
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  • Gregory Edge
    While I would love a free license it will never happen. You bought a product and the fine print in the licensing agreement that you agree to when installing limits their liability. I bought my license less than a year ago.

    I see they offered someone $100 on a C1 license. Wonder if that coupon code will work when it comes time for v. 12 upgrade? I am betting not.
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Edgephoto" wrote:
    While I would love a free license it will never happen. You bought a product and the fine print in the licensing agreement that you agree to when installing limits their liability. I bought my license less than a year ago.

    I see they offered someone $100 on a C1 license. Wonder if that coupon code will work when it comes time for v. 12 upgrade? I am betting not.


    You might be right. I was basing my argument on customer investment and reasonable expectations for a future upgrade path that has now been thwarted. Doesn't hurt to ask. I think the fact that a user asked for help and was offered a $100 coupon (where no such offer was given in the official email notice of MP discontinuation) proves my point -- this appears to be a negotiable matter.
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  • Gregory Edge
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    [quote="Edgephoto" wrote:
    While I would love a free license it will never happen. You bought a product and the fine print in the licensing agreement that you agree to when installing limits their liability. I bought my license less than a year ago.

    I see they offered someone $100 on a C1 license. Wonder if that coupon code will work when it comes time for v. 12 upgrade? I am betting not.


    You might be right. I was basing my argument on customer investment and reasonable expectations for a future upgrade path that has now been thwarted. Doesn't hurt to ask. I think the fact that a user asked for help and was offered a $100 coupon (where no such offer was given in the official email notice of MP discontinuation) proves my point -- this appears to be a negotiable matter.


    I am sure they will offer coupons to those who ask. Within reason of course. I may ask and see if I get a coupon. I will use it for v 12 upgrade. It will be interesting to see if they do for all users or only ones who bought after a certain date.
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  • Robert Edwards
    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    Another demand that I think is reasonable (as another user suggested in the Media Pro forum): a free license for Capture One.

    It wouldn't be difficult or out of character for Phase One to do this. They did it after acquiring Expression Media.

    If they offer a free Capture One 11 license the Media Pro "refugees" might pony up for the paid v12 upgrade due in a couple of months (based on previous upgrade cycles). Doesn't affect me as I'm already a C1 user 😊.
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