Box-like patterns when scaling.
I'm trying out Capture One 3.7.6 for Windows (Xp Pro)... and have a problem when converting Nikon D200's nefs to tiff and/or jpg and crop & scaling : Box-like patterns (not pixelation).
It doesn't have to do with noise, as it happens with any image, noisy or noisless, at any ISO.
It doesn't have to do with noise reduction, as it happens either I apply it or not.
It doesn't have to do with jpg or tiff, it happens with both of them.
It is viewable at 100% in worst cases, though at 200% and 400% becomes horrendous.
Let's say I have a nef, and want to get a 20cmx30cm image at 300ppp. I adjust image parameters, and then I apply a custom crop (20:30 ratio) and save.
If I don't apply scaling, and get an image with 20:30 ratio but smaller than the desired print size at 300pp, there are no box-patterns. When compared to Nicon Capture 4.4, pixels seem to be less random, almost following an invisible pattern in the C1 resulting image. It is not objectable, and though I prefer the "randomness" of the Nikon Capture result, I'm equally happy with C1's.
It doesn't mind how tight I crop, the image understandably degrades if I resize it to 20cmx30cm using any other software, but box-patterns aren't there. Everything's O.K.
If I apply scaling in C1 to get a print size of 20cmx30cm, the boxes appear. The tighter the crop, the more apparent they become, though different in size (box-pattern sizes are larger or smaller, but not directly related to tighter or less tight crop, in my experience).
If I dare to apply sharpening...they truly degrade image quality. Maybe not to a point that becomes noticiable at 30x20... but what if I print at a larger size ?
So... I'm posting this to find if anyone else is experiencing this, and to learn a solution if exists, or at least to make it known so it can be solved in future versions.
Any info / solutions on this, please ?
P.S. By the way... the crop tool and the process->scaling ...aren't exactly precision tools. I couldn't get an exact 30cmx20cm if my life depended on it. At most, a 30x19.97.
It doesn't have to do with noise, as it happens with any image, noisy or noisless, at any ISO.
It doesn't have to do with noise reduction, as it happens either I apply it or not.
It doesn't have to do with jpg or tiff, it happens with both of them.
It is viewable at 100% in worst cases, though at 200% and 400% becomes horrendous.
Let's say I have a nef, and want to get a 20cmx30cm image at 300ppp. I adjust image parameters, and then I apply a custom crop (20:30 ratio) and save.
If I don't apply scaling, and get an image with 20:30 ratio but smaller than the desired print size at 300pp, there are no box-patterns. When compared to Nicon Capture 4.4, pixels seem to be less random, almost following an invisible pattern in the C1 resulting image. It is not objectable, and though I prefer the "randomness" of the Nikon Capture result, I'm equally happy with C1's.
It doesn't mind how tight I crop, the image understandably degrades if I resize it to 20cmx30cm using any other software, but box-patterns aren't there. Everything's O.K.
If I apply scaling in C1 to get a print size of 20cmx30cm, the boxes appear. The tighter the crop, the more apparent they become, though different in size (box-pattern sizes are larger or smaller, but not directly related to tighter or less tight crop, in my experience).
If I dare to apply sharpening...they truly degrade image quality. Maybe not to a point that becomes noticiable at 30x20... but what if I print at a larger size ?
So... I'm posting this to find if anyone else is experiencing this, and to learn a solution if exists, or at least to make it known so it can be solved in future versions.
Any info / solutions on this, please ?
P.S. By the way... the crop tool and the process->scaling ...aren't exactly precision tools. I couldn't get an exact 30cmx20cm if my life depended on it. At most, a 30x19.97.
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So... I'm bumping this post because of the spam invaders of late... an because though more than a hundred people have read this post, non have commented on it.
Could you, gentle reader, say if this is happening to you at least, whatever the camera you use -I guess it's ot related to any brand in particular- ?
Or... just tell me "you're wrong" and "there's no pattern"....whatever...but this is becoming a problem for me, and I'd like to know what to expect form C1, or how to solve this problem.0 -
Hi,
I don't see these patterns from my two D200 cameras.
What I do see though is C1 conversions do not interpolate up nearly as well as conversions from ACR. Conversions scaled at 100% or printed at their native resolution look beautiful. Interpolate C1 generated TIFFs in Photoshop shows artifacts that other RAW converters don't exhibit.
-- Robert.
BTW the spam bots appear to be attacking lots of phpBB boards lately. Maybe Phase One need to introduce manual account activation - just like their software.0 -
brokeron,
From the Release Notes are the
Known Issues:
• Processing to scale factors at 120-170% may present artifacts in sub pixel details
Avoid these scaling settings. Developers are working to solve this Bug.
Viewing images - at 200% - 400% is not really prudent.
Detail above 100% will not be printable or viewable in print media.
Regards,
k c0 -
Thanks for your answers, roberte and Keith.
I guess those "artifacts" are what I'm getting here. Though, I expected "artifacts" to be a random degradation of the image quality, not these patterns...and that's what got me confused. I suppose then I'll have to rely on a photoshop droplet to do the scaling on the few images that are going to be printed at larger sizes ( 20x30 cm print beatifully, so it is not really a concern at this point )
About viewing at 200% or 300%.. yes, it isn't practical in a sense, and most things you see at 200% you will never notice in a print.
But when you're goint to print a 80x100 cm from a D200 nef, you better review it beforehand. That's how I encountered my square patterns.
Just one thing more. It happens at 105%, 107%, 115 %, etc. It isn't only from 120%-170%...though the larger the sclae, the more noticiable they become.
Well... I'll patiently await Capture One 4 (while I eat my fingernails to the bone). From the very minor information about it we have now, it seems it's gona rock.0 -
I have experienced this phenomenon while field checking our imagery for pixel blur and focus issues. It is absolutely practical for us to check our imagery at these scale factors as our customers are scaling to just before pixilation as an inspection tool. We are using a Rollei db20p. Typical file size is 39-41mb. I have experienced that at any scale between 110 and 390 will result in this problem. 400 to 800 works fine. I am disturbed by the cavelier attitude toward a glaring software problem.
Please advise if this problem will be addressed!!!!0 -
APage,
A Preview is a Preview and are for making basic image adjustments.
The Windows generated previews tend to be better quality than the Mac ones in the current version of Capture One. For DSLRs the sized is dependent upon the make / model.
In the past, there were requests to adjust Preview size to be smaller, and they were reduced.
Then requests to become larger... and they were enlarged.
Now there are requests to adjust even larger since today's machines can handle the size.
Irregardless of how Preview generation is changed in the 4.0 Upgrade...
The fact is that the absolute best tool to critically analyze quality, focus, and color is by viewing the Focus View display. ( Focus Utility - Mac )
It's display can be set to 3 different sizes.
Since it actually processes the selected area from the RAW file, it is far superior than the Preview displayed.
Sincerely,
K C0 -
Thanks for the info. 0
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