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bug in 4.01 with A700 cRAW files

Bernd1
Hi,

after only trying it briefly, it seems that C1 4.01 can't read cRAW files properly - I get strange looking colours, it looks a bit like over/under exposure warning, but it isn't.

That effect shows even in some processed pics.
Also, most pics looks vastly overexposed, which wasn't the case before when I tried DNG.

Any idea anyone?
regards,
Bernd
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Kommentare

14 Kommentare

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  • Bernd1
    http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=26707694

    Well, one could of course try to get that algorithm...
    Bernd
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Hi Bernd,
    This might be an old debate, I am afraid. Camera manufacturers tend to compress and/or encrypt the raw data and/or metadata to protect their propriety raw format. A (in)famous example was Nikon with the D2x (could be another model) and its encrypted white balance value.

    If the algorithms are not published in a SDK by the manufacturer, third party software developers have two options:
    - (reverse) engineer the compression/encryption and face the legal consequences of copyright infringement (this is typically the roadmap of dcRAW)
    - wait till the manufacturer publishes the algorithms and implement it in the software (this is what finally happens in the Nikon case) (Adobe's and Phase One's approach, I the past)

    I am not sure whether this is the case here with the A700. If it is an unpublished feature than Sony is the problem. If not than just use uncompressed cRAW now and do a feature request at Phase One. And enjoy A700 support in CO 401 of course 😊
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  • Bernd1
    This is probably what happened, Paul. However, if SONY doesn't supply a SDK I just wonder how Phase One competitors managed to get a cRAW support.
    I understand that Sony DSLRs are not as interesting for PhaseOne like Canon & Nikon, still...I would hope that supporting a camera will include all RAW modes...perhaps time to for another upgrade... 😭
    regards,
    Bernd
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  • Bernd1
    To all A700 users:
    the DNGs work really well now, so if you still got cRAWs, just convert them!
    The results remind me a lot of 3.7.7 and that is the best compliment I can think of!
    Bernd
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  • NN8893222
    [quote="Paul Steunebrink" wrote:
    Hi Bernd,
    This might be an old debate, I am afraid. Camera manufacturers tend to compress and/or encrypt the raw data and/or metadata to protect their propriety raw format. A (in)famous example was Nikon with the D2x (could be another model) and its encrypted white balance value.

    If the algorithms are not published in a SDK by the manufacturer, third party software developers have two options:
    - (reverse) engineer the compression/encryption and face the legal consequences of copyright infringement (this is typically the roadmap of dcRAW)
    - wait till the manufacturer publishes the algorithms and implement it in the software (this is what finally happens in the Nikon case) (Adobe's and Phase One's approach, I the past)

    All you need to say now is "Opps, Sorry.. were working on it, thanks."

    I am not sure whether this is the case here with the A700. If it is an unpublished feature than Sony is the problem. If not than just use uncompressed cRAW now and do a feature request at Phase One. And enjoy A700 support in CO 401 of course 😊


    Tell me how do I enjoy CO 401 with my 800 Paris images in cRAW? If I want to do a DNg conversion I can do that with anything.

    Consider this and official BUG REPORT!! Why open a file without an error that you are clueless about rendering?

    I tried v4 on a a few raws I have and you have great output for the A700. However, if you can not figure out how to read cRAW right, like ccraw/Raw Therapee, AcDsee Pro 2, Bibble, Silky Pix, and the new experimental RAWHIDE converter - That is not a camera issue, that is a CaptureOne may be happy to accept "poor problem solving skills."

    Get this..

    if your output was bad, if I thought you had a poor product I would not care enough to say this so bluntly.

    Time to stop with the excuses, and have the attitude Capture One developers are as good as any other company and we can make it happen. Frankly if I were product managing this, I would have been embarrassed to release it this way. (I am a product manager by trade and carry dual certifications)-

    To do otherwise is to say you have less capable developers than all your competing products and that would be a sad thing to admit publicly. Which is the clear meaning of the above answer. ☹️
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Hi,

    I needed some days more to discover this fault / bug or how you may call it.

    Unfortunately I put my post before reading this one.

    Is this a problem that affects only cRAW files?

    As written in my post, there are not only coloured areas but single coloured pixels too in dark areas when doing low light photos. Are these problems related?

    Hope P1 offers a solution or at least informs that cRAW shouldn't be used util second orders.

    Cheers,
    Michael Fritzen
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  • Nobukazu
    Hi, I can confirm that A700's RAW processes OK with C1 4.01 but not cRAW. And the DNG out of cRAW processes fine.

    I still hope that PhaseOne to straighten out the algorithm to handle cRAWs properly in the next update or in C1 4Pro, however.

    Currently even some freeware (e.g. IrfanView) handle A700's cRAW fine. So, the lack of vendor SDK won't give a strong enough execuse for not supporting IMNSHO. Not to mention producing a garbled output without signaling a warning message.
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  • Bernd1
    [quote="ntoge" wrote:
    Hi, I can confirm that A700's RAW processes OK with C1 4.01 but not cRAW. And the DNG out of cRAW processes fine.

    I still hope that PhaseOne to straighten out the algorithm to handle cRAWs properly in the next update or in C1 4Pro, however.

    Currently even some freeware (e.g. IrfanView) handle A700's cRAW fine. So, the lack of vendor SDK won't give a strong enough execuse for not supporting IMNSHO. Not to mention producing a garbled output without signaling a warning message.


    I totally agree on that... if freeware is able to read cRAWs properly, C1 should be able to do that, too.
    Bernd
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Hi,

    some mentioned here the problems converting cRAW with C1 4.01 could be solved by converting simply the cRAW file to DNG.

    Are you telling to do this conversion to DNG inside C1 4.01? I did this with one of my critical cRAW files. But the preview of this converted DNG file showed exactly the same pink / yellow colours as the cRAW file did. So I didn't go further to do the final conversion to TIFF. Perhaps the colours disappear. BTW did you notice that not all cRAW files behave this way? As far as I see only very dark areas (similar to "hot pixels on the sensor" and very bright areas (pink / yellow coloures) suffer from this whereas photos with neutral lighting, without extremes, are converted normally.

    Still hoping for a fix from P1 team.

    Cheers,
    Michael Fritzen
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  • Bernd1
    Hi,

    I was actually using the Adobe DNG converter. Works well, still annoying having to do it, but better than waiting...
    regards,
    Bernd
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="ausgezeichnet" wrote:
    Hi,

    I was actually using the Adobe DNG converter. Works well, still annoying having to do it, but better than waiting...
    regards,
    Bernd

    That's the right spirit. Improvise, Adapt, Overcome! 😊
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Hi,

    I totally agree that improvising is better than long waiting or crying around.

    Yet I don't agree that such deficiencies mean that I have to buy all these programs .

    BTW: "ausgezeichnet" how is DNG conversion in ACR doing with high ISO? Wasn't the terrible high ISO conversions obtained with Adobe's software the most criticized point in forums on the web?

    Cheers,
    Michael Fritzen
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  • Wade Oram
    [quote="Michael Fritzen" wrote:

    Yet I don't agree that such deficiencies mean that I have to buy all these programs.


    I believe you have the wrong end of the stick. What is meant in the above postings is that you use the Adobe DNG converter to convert from your cRaw file to a DNG and then use Capture One to develop your file to jpg or tiff.

    The Adobe DNG converter is available as a free download as part of the Camera raw plugin for Adobe Photoshop. However, you do not need to have Adobe Photoshop in order to download it so you do not need to purchase any additional software in order to do this.

    I will, however, be the first to admit that the workflow that this represents is far from optimal (unless you want the raw-dng files anyway).
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  • Bernd1
    [quote="Michael Fritzen" wrote:
    Hi,

    I totally agree that improvising is better than long waiting or crying around.

    Yet I don't agree that such deficiencies mean that I have to buy all these programs .

    BTW: "ausgezeichnet" how is DNG conversion in ACR doing with high ISO? Wasn't the terrible high ISO conversions obtained with Adobe's software the most criticized point in forums on the web?

    Cheers,
    Michael Fritzen


    Hi MIchael, I convert not in ACR or C1, I use the standalone DNG converter. Regarding High ISO, well...you still get that Madame Tussaud look on faces, but when you decrease NR results are ok, considering. The defaults don't work, though.
    regards,
    Bernd
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