ICC Profile / C1 12 Engine

Christian Gruner

29. November 2018 15:44

[quote="NNN636574315139988557" wrote:
Is there a way to globally change the engine to Capture One 12 in the Base Characteristics section for all photos in a catalog? The way I see it, it can only be done photo by photo...

While I would not recommend this, you can use the All Images collection, mark all images, and with "Edit multiple"-option enabled, you just press Update.

[quote="NNN636574315139988557" wrote:
Also, not seeing the X-T1 film profiles option that I had thought had been added for the RAW files. When I plug in Fujifilm X-T1 generic in the ICC Profile I only get 4 choices in the curve drop down.

The X-T1 is not supported for Fuji filmstyles.

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Mike N

29. November 2018 15:47

Thanks for your reply Christian.

Why would you not recommend upgrading all to c1 12 engine?

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SFA

29. November 2018 15:58

Although I don't think there are major differences in the processing engine between V11.3 and V12 in this release that would affect the results you would see using the V11 edits (Other then perhaps the way a gradient fill in a layer is managed - not something I have checked), in general there is not a lot of point in updating the engine unless you need to.

Although there may in some cases be significant changes in the processing engine and the use of the updates could benefit a previously processed image there is a good chance that the changes in the process will also change the resulting image and that may not be something that would be advisable without some consideration.

Since the older engines are supported for several versions after they are replaced there is probably no need nor any benefit to making a mass change (non-reversible unless you revert to a backup) of the engine just because a new engine has been released.

However, updating the Catalogue may well be necessary since that is a database tool rather than a primarily creative tool and as such needs to be compatible with the the structures required by the software using it.

That said, there may well be a way to mass update all of a catalogue's images with a revised engine in a satisfactory way and in some cases doing so will be entirely acceptable. It's just worth pointing out that doing such an update automatically when other options exist may not always be the best option.

HTH.

Grant

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Mike N

29. November 2018 16:00

Thanks for the reply Grant - all makes sense now.

Loving what I see from 12 so far!

Mike

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SFA

29. November 2018 16:40

[quote="mikenor" wrote:
Thanks for the reply Grant - all makes sense now.

Loving what I see from 12 so far!

Mike

You're welcome Mike.

I was going to suggest the process that Christian described as I have used that, mainly for testing the differences, in previous releases, but had not done so for V12. So I held back.

Even more interesting, should you wish to experiment (although perhaps NOT with a full catalog), is to clone the earlier engined primary variants of some images and then apply the engine update method Christian has described to the clones (they should already be selected ready to be changed).

That way you have a very easy way to compare previous and new side by side without losing your previous work. That should be of some help deciding whether there might be benefits (or not) to making the effort to review earlier work.

HTH.

Grant

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AdrianR

29. November 2018 17:39

[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="NNN636574315139988557" wrote:
Is there a way to globally change the engine to Capture One 12 in the Base Characteristics section for all photos in a catalog? The way I see it, it can only be done photo by photo...

While I would not recommend this, you can use the All Images collection, mark all images, and with "Edit multiple"-option enabled, you just press Update.

[quote="NNN636574315139988557" wrote:
Also, not seeing the X-T1 film profiles option that I had thought had been added for the RAW files. When I plug in Fujifilm X-T1 generic in the ICC Profile I only get 4 choices in the curve drop down.

The X-T1 is not supported for Fuji filmstyles.

Hi Chris, please can you expand on why the X-T1 files cannot have Fuji film simulations applied, given that it's the same sensor technology as the X-T2 and X-t3, just lower resolution? Is this to come in the next maintenance update? The press releases around the release of the C1/Fuji deal simply stated that film simulations would be coming for X-series cameras, so I really hope the X-T1 is not far behind the newer cameras in the series. If not, then I'll have to stay with Lightroom and SilkyPix, for which the simulations are available.

Thanks in advance for your answer.

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NNN636024503010514085

29. November 2018 21:29

[quote="NNN636734875182243288" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="NNN636574315139988557" wrote:
Is there a way to globally change the engine to Capture One 12 in the Base Characteristics section for all photos in a catalog? The way I see it, it can only be done photo by photo...

While I would not recommend this, you can use the All Images collection, mark all images, and with "Edit multiple"-option enabled, you just press Update.

[quote="NNN636574315139988557" wrote:
Also, not seeing the X-T1 film profiles option that I had thought had been added for the RAW files. When I plug in Fujifilm X-T1 generic in the ICC Profile I only get 4 choices in the curve drop down.

The X-T1 is not supported for Fuji filmstyles.

Hi Chris, please can you expand on why the X-T1 files cannot have Fuji film simulations applied, given that it's the same sensor technology as the X-T2 and X-t3, just lower resolution? Is this to come in the next maintenance update? The press releases around the release of the C1/Fuji deal simply stated that film simulations would be coming for X-series cameras, so I really hope the X-T1 is not far behind the newer cameras in the series. If not, then I'll have to stay with Lightroom and SilkyPix, for which the simulations are available.

Thanks in advance for your answer.

IÂ´m also very interessted if there will come a filmstyle-support for X-T1 in near future. Where can I see which other Fuji-cameras are not supported for Fuji filmstyles?
...besides that, it would be fair to inform the people before an upgrade, that their specific camera might not be support for Fuji filmstyles.

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SFA

29. November 2018 21:57

[quote="NNN636024503010514085" wrote:

IÂ´m also very interessted if there will come a filmstyle-support for X-T1 in near future. Where can I see which other Fuji-cameras are not supported for Fuji filmstyles?
...besides that, it would be fair to inform the people before an upgrade, that their specific camera might not be support for Fuji filmstyles.

Release notes. Page 6 (According to my PDF reader) has the table of supported Fuji cameras.

https://www.phaseone.com/~/media/NEW_WE ... _CO12.ashx

HTH.

Grant

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dee jjjaaaa

30. November 2018 02:41

[quote="NNN636734875182243288" wrote:

Hi Chris, please can you expand on why the X-T1 files cannot have Fuji film simulations applied, given that it's the same sensor technology as the X-T2 and X-t3, just lower resolution?

"sensor technology" as in ? CMOS ? X-TRANS layout ? APS-C size ? Sony designed sensor ?

There might be different CFA spectral transmission curves (X-TRANS filters arrangement is not that) for example -> need different LUTs

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Christian Gruner

30. November 2018 09:33

[quote="NNN636734875182243288" wrote:
Hi Chris, please can you expand on why the X-T1 files cannot have Fuji film simulations applied

It is a limitation of the camera-firmware.

[quote="NNN636024503010514085" wrote:
besides that, it would be fair to inform the people before an upgrade, that their specific camera might not be support for Fuji filmstyles.

That is what the release notes are for. It is simply impossible to list all known limitations of a given product at check-out.

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AdrianR

30. November 2018 10:41

[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="NNN636734875182243288" wrote:
Hi Chris, please can you expand on why the X-T1 files cannot have Fuji film simulations applied

It is a limitation of the camera-firmware.

Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry, but the answer doesn't make sense to me. The X-T1 has always supported Film Simulation in its firmware, up to the addition of Classic Chrome but excluding Acros. Please can you recheck your understanding with Fujifilm as I am confident you are needlessly blocking a function that is tagged in the resulting X-T1 RAF files? Please have a lok at the current X-T1 manual at , for which there is a later addendum to state the addition of Classic Chrome.

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Christian Gruner

30. November 2018 11:24

[quote="AdrianR" wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry, but the answer doesn't make sense to me. The X-T1 has always supported Film Simulation in its firmware, up to the addition of Classic Chrome but excluding Acros. Please can you recheck your understanding with Fujifilm as I am confident you are needlessly blocking a function that is tagged in the resulting X-T1 RAF files?

The limitation comes from Fujifilm, not from Capture One. All our Fujifilm related functionalities are made in tight collaboration with Fujifilm and also validated by them independently.

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dee jjjaaaa

30. November 2018 11:34

[quote="AdrianR" wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry, but the answer doesn't make sense to me.

apparently what he tried to say is that Fuji did not provide something to P1 to make it happen (as least so far) as P1 was not developing film emulations independently... Adobe for example has film emulations for X-T1... hence either (A) Adobe did this indep. from Fuji __OR__ (B) Fuji provided Adobe with necessary info for all models __OR__ (C) Adobe did this indep. from Fuji for the models where Fuji did not provide the info ... in any case it shows that "camera-firmware" was simply a poor choice of wording for brevity, if not obfuscation.

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AdrianR

30. November 2018 11:48

[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="AdrianR" wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry, but the answer doesn't make sense to me. The X-T1 has always supported Film Simulation in its firmware, up to the addition of Classic Chrome but excluding Acros. Please can you recheck your understanding with Fujifilm as I am confident you are needlessly blocking a function that is tagged in the resulting X-T1 RAF files?

The limitation comes from Fujifilm, not from Capture One. All our Fujifilm related functionalities are made in tight collaboration with Fujifilm and also validated by them independently.

UPDATE: Just occurred to me how some sort of misunderstanding may have occurred. I remembered that "FUJIFILM X RAW STUDIO" does not support the X-T1. However, that application is only for tethered use, with the conversion of PC/Mac-based RAF files to JPEG being carried out by the camera's processor rather than the computer's CPU/GPU. It has no connection to the capability of X-T1 for shooting-mode conversions incorporating Film Simulation profiles, and for relevance to this topic nothing to do with RAF-file Film Simulation-mode tags, or subsequent processing that is not making use of X Raw Studio. Hence why Lightroom and X-Transformer provide the evidence for it being fully possible to apply Fuji Film Simulation profiles when editing X-T1 RAF externally of the camera body. Surely Capture One Fujifilm is not requiring a physical connection to the camera when applying Film Simulations?!

OK, understood. A favour, please. Can you either provide me with an email contact within Fujfilm, so that I can directly understand their logic, or alternatively pass on my comment to them on my behalf? I can imagine their focus being on the X-T3, now, but the X-T1 was a good product for them, and in other aspects they continue to support the product with firmware maintenance updates. It makes no sense for them to have announced that Capture One Fujifilm would support Simulations for X-series cameras, and then inexplicably and stealthily leave out the X-T1, whilst competing fully independent products have provided X-T1 support for several years, in some cases.

*Nearly* My last post here on this topic...

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AdrianR

30. November 2018 11:51

[quote="deejjjaaaa" wrote:
[quote="AdrianR" wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply. Sorry, but the answer doesn't make sense to me.

apparently what he tried to say is that Fuji did not provide something to P1 to make it happen (as least so far) as P1 was not developing film emulations independently... Adobe for example has film emulations for X-T1... hence either (A) Adobe did this indep. from Fuji __OR__ (B) Fuji provided Adobe with necessary info for all models __OR__ (C) Adobe did this indep. from Fuji for the models where Fuji did not provide the info ... in any case it shows that "camera-firmware" was simply a poor choice of wording for brevity, if not obfuscation.

Looks like you crossed over with Christian's later update:-) I don't have the evidence now but my memory from that time is that Adobe mentioned having had support from Fujifilm. I'll search on DPReview etc to see if there's a news story to support that.

UPDATE: Cannot find anything there, and no mention here of them having worked closely with Fujifilm:

UPDATE 2: Far from official, but a statement that Fujifilm had endorsed the Lightroom profiles:

I broke my promise about posting again, having also crossed with your reply:-)

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NNN636737353334921925

17. Januar 2019 15:03

Any new info on this subject ?,
Is there any chance for getting film simulations for X-T1 in future releces ?

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NN636931927732719396UL

11. Mai 2019 23:25

Hi, new member. Just bought a Capture One Pro Fuji license for my XT-1 with the express expectation it would support Fuji film simulations. The website (as well as high profile blogs) certainly supporteded this expectation. So this is a very vexing problem for me.

If it's only for select cameras that's a significant asterisk, and should be made more clear, maybe with an asterisk. As others have pointed out, the xt1 is not particularly old, particularly rare, nor particularly different in terms of drsign.

Are any steps being taken to add in this support? If not, I think I'd like my money back.

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GrahamB3

12. Mai 2019 13:00

[quote="NN636931927732719396UL" wrote:
Hi, new member. Just bought a Capture One Pro Fuji license for my XT-1 with the express expectation it would support Fuji film simulations. The website (as well as high profile blogs) certainly supporteded this expectation. So this is a very vexing problem for me.

If it's only for select cameras that's a significant asterisk, and should be made more clear, maybe with an asterisk. As others have pointed out, the xt1 is not particularly old, particularly rare, nor particularly different in terms of drsign.

Are any steps being taken to add in this support? If not, I think I'd like my money back.

This is a user to user site. Although hosted by PhaseOne, there's no company participation here. If you want P1 to address your concerns, open up a support case at https://www.captureone.com/en/support.

Most software companies, PhaseOne included, offer a trial period. One can download a fully functional copy of Capture One for a 30 day period. There's no reason I can think of not to try software before buying, no matter how well reviewed the product.

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Permanently deleted user

12. Mai 2019 15:38

[quote="NN636931927732719396UL" wrote:
Hi, new member. Just bought a Capture One Pro Fuji license for my XT-1 with the express expectation it would support Fuji film simulations. The website (as well as high profile blogs) certainly supporteded this expectation. So this is a very vexing problem for me.

If it's only for select cameras that's a significant asterisk, and should be made more clear, maybe with an asterisk. As others have pointed out, the xt1 is not particularly old, particularly rare, nor particularly different in terms of drsign.

Are any steps being taken to add in this support? If not, I think I'd like my money back.

I've got an X-T100 and I've asked PO support if they're willing to add film curves for my camera. They told me that they can't comment on future product development so I think you won't know anyway.

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SFA

12. Mai 2019 16:45

I suspect you may need to ask Fuji as well since I recall some indications that what has been made possible is what Fuji supported.

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