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embedded camera profile vs Adobe RGB or sRGB

Permanently deleted user
I recently tried developing a set of Leica M typ(240) files in 7.1.1 using the Leica M240 generic DNG input profile that first appeared in 7.1.1. The results looked way too warm on screen (excess red), but when I outputted some jpgs and viewed them in Irfanview (on Windows 7) the color cooled considerably and the results were pleasing, at least for a first pass. But when I tried to upload the jpegs to the web they appeared greyed out. (I have on occasion seen this greyed out look with M9 files in the past, but reprocessing them to shrink from the size that CO produces has also made them displayable.) Looking closely at the Process tab, I see that the default output profile is "embedded camera profile." Changing that to Adobe RGB made the files display on the web without the greying, but now the results were too warm, corresponding to the onscreen versions.

So two questions --

1) What is with the selection of output profiles. Which should be used for robust onscreen display?

2) Why do the M240 files look so warm onscreen but then change color when output? Is that a bug that will disappear soon?

thanks for your help.

scott
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    1) use sRGB for web

    2) on Windows you must review your images with a color managed application; I am not familiar with Irfanview and the browser you used to look on the web, but I would not use them for reference. Photoshop and Capture One are good references.
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  • Permanently deleted user
    Thank you. But what is the "embedded camera profile" that seems to be the default output profile for a camera-specific generic DNG input profile?

    scott
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    CO7 option to use the camera profile as output or color space profile is only applicable in a close and fully color managed workflow. In other words when you keep the images indoors (and print them on a high quality large gamut printer).
    The concept behind it is that you retain the camera's color gamut in the output file.

    You can later on in your worklow convert the image to a smaller color space for repective application, like sRGB for web and AdobeRGB for prepress.
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
    CO7 option to use the camera profile as output or color space profile is only applicable in a close and fully color managed workflow. In other words when you keep the images indoors (and print them on a high quality large gamut printer).
    The concept behind it is that you retain the camera's color gamut in the output file.

    You can later on in your worklow convert the image to a smaller color space for repective application, like sRGB for web and AdobeRGB for prepress.


    Hi Paul

    What happens if one of the corrections (for example saturation) moves colors out of the camera profile?

    Alain
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  • mli20
    One needs to distinguish between camera profiles and colour spaces, since they are quite different in their purpose. You may wish to take a look at my post at



    which adresses this issue.

    Capture One is not very helpful in this respect, since it insists on callling either by the same name of "icc profile"

    a) Tool "Base Characteristics", referring to camera profiles

    b) "Process Recipes", tab "Basic", referring to colour spaces

    It's like insisting on talking about animals when it is essential to distinguish between herbivores and carnivores.

    I have proposed to PhaseOne that they alter the labels.

    Cheers, Mogens
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  • Paul Topol
    Can be very confusing!
    When you first start processing raw pics find the tab which includes the tool "Base characteristics".
    That icc is to tell the software how to read the raw file i.e. which camera took the shot. Phase One have worked out the colour characteristics of all those cameras in the list you can see in the icc choice. (NOT in the processing tab). Choose a different camera profile and you will see some interesting changes to your image. You are telling the software how to read the raw file. That is the input side. I have found that the software reads my Canon cameras pretty accurately.

    Once you have made all the adjustments to your image you now need to output the file so you can use it for viewing, printing, etc.
    On the output/processing recipe tab you will see where you can generate the tiff/jpg/dng files with whatever icc profile is in your profile directory in the operating system you are using. I use windows but assume that mac has something similar. You have printing profiles there as well. Depending on your settings here the image you see on your screen can be viewed as per the recipe you have set up and highlighted.

    If the pic will be only for viewing on a screen or distributing on a disc to the average person, then you should generate/process the file to Srgb profile and normally in JPG. The colours will be generally right for the average uncalibrated viewer whether web or printer. You lose a fair bit of gamut but seems good enough for the world.
    I like to keep as much detail as possible for when i print on my own wide format printer so I generate, as well, a tiff in Prophoto and then print off that using QImage.
    Hope that helps.
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