Where is the sharpness gone?
Hallo!
I am testing capture one pro 4 and have to say, my first impression is awesom. Thats by far the best RAW image quality from my canon 5 D I ever saw.
My Question: The sharpness I see in Capture One is great, but if I process a picture (Tiff, 16 bit, Adobe RGB - normal settings to say), and open it in Photoshop, it isn't sharp anymore.
Where is the sharpness gone and how to fix that problem?
I am testing capture one pro 4 and have to say, my first impression is awesom. Thats by far the best RAW image quality from my canon 5 D I ever saw.
My Question: The sharpness I see in Capture One is great, but if I process a picture (Tiff, 16 bit, Adobe RGB - normal settings to say), and open it in Photoshop, it isn't sharp anymore.
Where is the sharpness gone and how to fix that problem?
0
-
You may want to check if you have clicked on "Sharpening [_] Disable" when you are in the Output panel 0 -
I tried both clicked Sharpening Disable and dont clicked.
It changed nothing.0 -
Matthias,
I was not able to reproduce lack of sharpening (I assume that is what you refer to with sharpness) with a Canon 5D raw image output to either 8- and 16-bit TIFF and JPEG with AdobeRGB and sRGB respectively. My suggestion is to create a new process recipe on the Output tool tab and see whether changing the sharpening/amount slider in the Details tools tab has any effect on the output.0 -
Are you checking the 100% view of sharpness in C1 to the same in PS?
I find the new sharper previews C1 introduced with the last bug fix can make subjects with lots of detail (fabric, foliage etc) on my monitor look horrible at the 'Fit' magnification. Very over sharpened and digital looking. A quick check at 100% calms the nerves but its a feature I would like to turn off and have a dedicated focus tool as in 3.7. This is a feeling of many other posters on here.0 -
I'm not so fond of the sharpening function yet either. I've decided to create a default sharpen setting for viewing images at "Fit" magnification and to create another sharpen default setting for when I'm processing the files. Seems like extra work though. 0 -
I'm having the exact same problem. i want the exported TIFFs to look the same way as they do in the preview window of Capture One but nothing I do seems to work. I have tried exporting the same image with little or no sharpening applied, and then exporting it again with all of the sharpening settings set to their maximum levels. The two resulting images showed very little difference. VERY little. You can tell sharpening is being applied but the difference between EXTREME sharpening settings, and NO sharpening settings are very very slight. Anyone else have this trouble? 0 -
I just tried sending 2 versions of the same file sharpened at different settings from my Windows C1 Pro to PS CS3. The Jpegs show different sharpness as expected. 0 -
I just recollected that there is an issue with sharpening (and how it is applied) combined with upscaling on output (150% and up). A quick test revealed this issue still exists. Question to the posters Matthias and NN: do you upscale your output? 0 -
[quote="Paul_E" wrote:
I just recollected that there is an issue with sharpening (and how it is applied) combined with upscaling on output (150% and up). A quick test revealed this issue still exists. Question to the posters Matthias and NN: do you upscale your output?
Hmm....I don't think I'm upscaling my output. I'm not really doing anything to adjust the size of the output one way or another (as far as I know). I wouldn't know how to do it if I wanted to. I'm just processing the image as-is, and I assume it's outputting the file at 100% (original size)0 -
[quote="Henry" wrote:
I just tried sending 2 versions of the same file sharpened at different settings from my Windows C1 Pro to PS CS3. The Jpegs show different sharpness as expected.
How large are the files; what dimensions? I tried the same thing you did with only very slight differences between the two files. And by "slight" i mean extremely slight. I'm outputting a 12MP file at 4256 x 2832 pixels. No upscaling (I just checked). Are the dimensions of your files considerably larger/smaller? Maybe that has something to do with the difference between your results and mine0 -
Exactly the same problem here and it is driving me nuts - is this a bug in my version perhaps: 4.0.14162?
Basically, image looks great in Phase One 4 but then when I create a TIFF it looks like the sharpening hasn't been applied at all, irrespective of the sharpening setting on the processing page. In fact all photos that I produce with the software are too soft and I can't believe that my lens is that bad. Nikon D80 with a 18-70mm at 40mm and F8.
The files produced are 1024x768(ish) and are being shown at full size in whatever application I use to view the output files.
If I work completely in Photoshop 6 then the output files it produces look the same as what I'm seeing in Photoshop 6.
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks,
Steve0 -
[quote="NN" wrote:
...
The files produced are 1024x768(ish) and are being shown at full size in whatever application I use to view the output files.
You apparently downsize the image output, on which sharpening is not applied correctly IIRC (has been discussed here before, but do not have a reference available). Try a comparison with a 100% output.
Curiosity department: the build (4.0.14162) you mentioned is the first one released of CO4, and it is a Windows build if I am correct. Are you running Win or Mac (because this is the CO4/Mac forum but you're welcome anyway)? Ever considered updating to a later release (which still has this bug discussed by many other bugs NOT).0 -
[quote="Paul_E" wrote:
[quote="NN" wrote:
...
The files produced are 1024x768(ish) and are being shown at full size in whatever application I use to view the output files.
You apparently downsize the image output, on which sharpening is not applied correctly IIRC (has been discussed here before, but do not have a reference available). Try a comparison with a 100% output.
Curiosity department: the build (4.0.14162) you mentioned is the first one released of CO4, and it is a Windows build if I am correct. Are you running Win or Mac (because this is the CO4/Mac forum but you're welcome anyway)? Ever considered updating to a later release (which still has this bug discussed by many other bugs NOT).
Hi,
I see what you mean. If I output a 100% size image and compare it to the image viewed in CO4 at 100% then they look the same.
So I guess the problem is that CO4 is able to preview the image much sharper than the app I use to show the created image. So, effectively, CO4 seems to be giving me an unrealistic view of the image. What I want to see in the preview is an accurate representation of how the image would look if I created an image the same size as the preview. I hope that makes sense?
Yes, sorry I didnt realise this was the Mac version of the forum. Hopefully, this issue (if it is an issue) is the same across both platforms. I have just tried a more up to date version of the software - same result. It's not that the image isn't being sharpened at all its just that it is being sharpened substantially less than the preview image would suggest.
Regards,
Steve0 -
Hi, guys! Warm welcome from West Siberia, Russia!
As far as I remember the image size from 5D is 4368 × 2912 pixels.
And my C1PRO 4.5.2 (Mac) delivers it 100% percent. The sharpness and overall image quality is tremendous. (I'm thinking to reprocess my photos processed by C1PRO 3.7.9 due to lots of fantastic controls in newest version)
But, some time ago I was a Windows user and played with C1PRO 3.7.6 (Win) and generally was very satisfied with images it produced. But I was shocked with the fact that final image size for my 5D became 4368x2904 pixels! Its ratio wasn't 3:2 anymore.
8 lines were simply gone. C1 support said that there was no workaround for it.
It seems to me that Win version is underdog in C1 universe.
As a result I went Mac way.
Regards, Alexey.0 -
[quote="NN" wrote:
Hi,
So I guess the problem is that CO4 is able to preview the image much sharper than the app I use to show the created image. So, effectively, CO4 seems to be giving me an unrealistic view of the image. What I want to see in the preview is an accurate representation of how the image would look if I created an image the same size as the preview. I hope that makes sense?
I can fully subscribe to that. I'm also a windows user and happened to stroll by the mac forum, as I posted about this issue some weeks ago on the windows forum, but recieved no reply from Capture One users who might be having similar experiences with over-sharpened previews.
In short: the level of sharpening you think you are applying, based on the preview, is far from the actual sharpening you appear to have applied when you open the (tiff)image in photoshop, and that makes the sharpening function in the present Capture One version a matter of quessing, or a matter of using presets based on experience with the output.
I really can't see any reason why the previews could not be better representatives of the level of sharpening applied.
Chris0 -
[quote="christiaan" wrote:
[quote="NN" wrote:
Hi,
So I guess the problem is that CO4 is able to preview the image much sharper than the app I use to show the created image. So, effectively, CO4 seems to be giving me an unrealistic view of the image. What I want to see in the preview is an accurate representation of how the image would look if I created an image the same size as the preview. I hope that makes sense?
I can't accept that. The sharpening engine in CaptureOne simply is not working. Going from a sharpening setting of 0 and then all the way up to 500 SHOULD show me some differences in the outputted file. But it shows almost NO change at all in the outputted file; certainly not the degree of change you'd expect when going from 0 to 500 in the sharpening setting. What does it take to get a plain, direct, honest response from someone at PhaseOne as to why CaptureOne's sharpening performance is so dreadful?????
Not only does it NOT SHARPEN for me, I also find my images actually look SOFTER out of CaptureOne than they look directly downloaded from my camera.
To clarify, I have noise reduction turned off, and I do not have "Sharpening Disable" selected (what a stupid idea it was to include a sharpening disabling checkbox!)
Anyone there at PhaseOne going to clue us in here? Or has any user experienced this headache and found the cause? Thanks
-Tim0 -
[quote="NN10450" wrote:
...
What does it take to get a plain, direct, honest response from someone at PhaseOne as to why CaptureOne's sharpening performance is so dreadful?????
See and provide more details - like output parameters - than you did here.
For me sharpening works very good. Preview and final output in PS CS3 do sometimes have a small mismatch at the 500% setting and is very accurate at 0%, but it does not bugs me and even CS3 versus CS4 show a difference in sharpening impression on display.
(CO 4.5.2, dual screen, viewer fit on 22" monitor, Leica M8 DNG, sharp.amout 130, Tiff8, AdobeRGB, 100% fixed, CS3)[quote="NN10450" wrote:
... I do not have "Sharpening Disable" selected (what a stupid idea it was to include a sharpening disabling checkbox!)
Sorry to hear that you don't understand the incredible value of this setting, but it does not hurt, does it?0 -
[quote="Paul_E" wrote:
[quote="NN10450" wrote:
...
What does it take to get a plain, direct, honest response from someone at PhaseOne as to why CaptureOne's sharpening performance is so dreadful?????
See and provide more details - like output parameters - than you did here.
I had provided pretty complete parameters in a previous posting under this same thread.[quote="NN10450" wrote:
.For me sharpening works very good.
And for me it doesn't. So who wins? That's the point I'm trying to make...the sharpening engine doesn't perform consistently because you are seeing it work well and it's not working at all for me.[quote="NN10450" wrote:
Sorry to hear that you don't understand the incredible value of [the sharpening disable] setting, but it does not hurt, does it?
It does more harm than good if it is accidentally selected. If someone doesn't want sharpening applied, the natural thing they will do is reduce the sharpening slider to zero. This is exactly how the noise reduction feature works. If you want no noise reduction, reduce the sliders to zero. There is no selectable option to turn off noise reduction, and there shouldn't be one to turn off sharpening either. It's a redundant feature. I guess my frustration is that it shows the general lack of thought put into this program--or a lack of attention to obvious details. It is yet another thing about CaptureOne that does not make sense.
I must say CaptureOne does provide a beautiful image with a very nice film-like tone curve. But for images to come out of capture one SOFTER than when they went into CaptureOne is just ridiculous and unacceptable. At this point I don't even use it anymore, I just use CaptureNX and Photoshop. CaptureNX is very slow, but it gives me a much higher quality image, and a much sharper image than CaptureOne0 -
I have the same "problem". CO 4.5.2 outputs opened in CS2 do not match CO 4.5.2 previews. However, if you consider sharpening a process that is dependent on the capture and output medium, than Phase One's approach to sharpening makes sense.
For example, many sharpening plug-ins use a phased approach to sharpening (capture sharp, local sharp, and output sharp), with the understanding that all phases are subject to many variables. A Canon Rebel requires a different level of initial capture sharpening than say a P-back. Likewise a photo destined for the web will require different sharpening parameters than a 16x20 continuous tone print. Most workflows place sharpening last for this reason.
Phase One most likely sharpens the preview for more accurate color correction within the software and to provide a reference for the files capacity to be sharpened within external editors. If all sharpening was applied up front by CO, there would be a lot of angry users when it came time to make prints or output cmyk conversions for a magazine.
So, my best advice is take advantage of the CO processing capabilities and get a good sharpening workflow in your external editor that gives you a result close to CO previews you like. I feel your pain, as I try to consolidate task as much as possible as well.0
Post ist für Kommentare geschlossen.
Kommentare
19 Kommentare