Pentax K5IIs generic profile lacking
Hello,
First let me say: I absolutely love Capture One v7. Every now and then I try another raw converter, but I simply like CO1 best, pretty much ideal from my point of view.
I shoot a Pentax k5IIs with a quartet of Zeiss ZK lenses. The Zeiss lenses are famous for their color rendering, and Capture One is supposed to offer some of the best color reproduction amongst raw converters. Still, the results I get are disappointing. I've taken this issue up with technical support three times, and about eight months after the release of the K5IIs it's getting a bit weary. I wonder if I have better chances at getting really proper color out of the Zeiss lenses.
The K5IIs is the filterless version of the K5, and Phase one have simply copied over the old K5v2 generic profile, changed the name, and called it a day. Opening an image with the camera profile embedded in Photoshop reads: K5_genericv2.
It is true that both cameras feature the same processor and sensor, but doesn't removing the AA filter (which was fairly strong on the K5) change the color rendering characteristics of a camera? I'm sure Phase One has little experience on this subject, as they normally only deal with filterless cameras anyway themselves (Medium format), and the removal of the AA filter is a relatively new trend anyway. I experience however a bad balance between overall saturation (a bit dull) and local saturation (sometimes too strong). Are there perhaps any D800 users working with Capture One that switched to the D800e (filterless)?
The other issue, is that the K5 generic_v2 (or the K5IIs generic the same as I explained) suffers from a distinct reddish color cast in e.g. skin tones or beige stone structures. I've stressed this issue with Phase one support, as I find it inexplicable how a professional software of this caliber, can get a camera .icc profile so wrong. Tired of the eternal reddish casting on certain subjects, I have started experimenting with the color editor, but again, I don't understand how Phase one can get a profile that far off. I had a portrait shoot sometime ago with the Zeiss makro planar 50/2, not a bad lens I would say, but I had a really hard time getting the reddish colors out of the faces, putting in lots of time white balancing and using the color editor. I should not have to be doing that surely? These tools are there for creative expression, not for salvaging faces from looking red? Do Capture one users often resort to using color editor presets to save their images?
I recently read up on the whole issue of camera profiling (dng profiling versus .icc profiling), and it is a controversial subject, but at the same time, I managed to home-brew very good printer profiles with color munki in twenty minutes, and a reasonably accurate dng profile with x-rite cc passport in ten minutes, so a company like Phase one should really do better with their generic profiles! (by the way, I used capture one with Olympus and sony cameras without this issue.)
In short: how do you get Phase one to acknowledge an issue (I get the response: thank you for your feedback, we have passed it on to RD, but we don't make the decisions at support, and then never hear from them again, or worse: if you don't like the profile, use the color editor to create your own), seeing multiple updates come by without change. I know the odd Pentax K5IIs user is not high up on Phase one's priority list, understandably, they have their MF back audience to cater to, but how much effort can it be for a professional company like Phase one to just do their minimal duty of creating a dedicated and proper generic profile for a camera, should that really drag on for eight months? Surely my license fee alone should cover their costs calibrating the Pentax K5IIs? And am I right assuming a filterless version of an otherwise identical camera, should always be profiled again, instead of copying over an old profile?
Thanks
Chris
First let me say: I absolutely love Capture One v7. Every now and then I try another raw converter, but I simply like CO1 best, pretty much ideal from my point of view.
I shoot a Pentax k5IIs with a quartet of Zeiss ZK lenses. The Zeiss lenses are famous for their color rendering, and Capture One is supposed to offer some of the best color reproduction amongst raw converters. Still, the results I get are disappointing. I've taken this issue up with technical support three times, and about eight months after the release of the K5IIs it's getting a bit weary. I wonder if I have better chances at getting really proper color out of the Zeiss lenses.
The K5IIs is the filterless version of the K5, and Phase one have simply copied over the old K5v2 generic profile, changed the name, and called it a day. Opening an image with the camera profile embedded in Photoshop reads: K5_genericv2.
It is true that both cameras feature the same processor and sensor, but doesn't removing the AA filter (which was fairly strong on the K5) change the color rendering characteristics of a camera? I'm sure Phase One has little experience on this subject, as they normally only deal with filterless cameras anyway themselves (Medium format), and the removal of the AA filter is a relatively new trend anyway. I experience however a bad balance between overall saturation (a bit dull) and local saturation (sometimes too strong). Are there perhaps any D800 users working with Capture One that switched to the D800e (filterless)?
The other issue, is that the K5 generic_v2 (or the K5IIs generic the same as I explained) suffers from a distinct reddish color cast in e.g. skin tones or beige stone structures. I've stressed this issue with Phase one support, as I find it inexplicable how a professional software of this caliber, can get a camera .icc profile so wrong. Tired of the eternal reddish casting on certain subjects, I have started experimenting with the color editor, but again, I don't understand how Phase one can get a profile that far off. I had a portrait shoot sometime ago with the Zeiss makro planar 50/2, not a bad lens I would say, but I had a really hard time getting the reddish colors out of the faces, putting in lots of time white balancing and using the color editor. I should not have to be doing that surely? These tools are there for creative expression, not for salvaging faces from looking red? Do Capture one users often resort to using color editor presets to save their images?
I recently read up on the whole issue of camera profiling (dng profiling versus .icc profiling), and it is a controversial subject, but at the same time, I managed to home-brew very good printer profiles with color munki in twenty minutes, and a reasonably accurate dng profile with x-rite cc passport in ten minutes, so a company like Phase one should really do better with their generic profiles! (by the way, I used capture one with Olympus and sony cameras without this issue.)
In short: how do you get Phase one to acknowledge an issue (I get the response: thank you for your feedback, we have passed it on to RD, but we don't make the decisions at support, and then never hear from them again, or worse: if you don't like the profile, use the color editor to create your own), seeing multiple updates come by without change. I know the odd Pentax K5IIs user is not high up on Phase one's priority list, understandably, they have their MF back audience to cater to, but how much effort can it be for a professional company like Phase one to just do their minimal duty of creating a dedicated and proper generic profile for a camera, should that really drag on for eight months? Surely my license fee alone should cover their costs calibrating the Pentax K5IIs? And am I right assuming a filterless version of an otherwise identical camera, should always be profiled again, instead of copying over an old profile?
Thanks
Chris
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