Session Successes, Catalog Woes
Having migrated from Lightroom, I am inherently bringing a sense of how a catalog should act. That being said, I am not sure what C1's catalogs were actually intended for. Upgrade from v11 to v12 and it's better they said. Maybe a little, but I still can't have a catalog of all my images. And now my catalog crashes each and every time I try to open folders within it. Sessions though, I love them. I would love to only use sessions, but I am wondering if there is a way to use certain aspects of catalogs within sessions.
1- Within sessions, can I have access to an overall set of keywords? And if I add a new keyword to a photo within a session, can that new keyword be available within that set of overall keywords for other sessions?
2- Searching (most likely searching keywords). Is there a way to search through all my images, if I am in a session, even if they are outside of that particular session?
3- If I find an image within System Folders that is outside the current session, and I now want to work on that, is there a way to open the session it resides in without going to the Finder window and opening the session file?
1- Within sessions, can I have access to an overall set of keywords? And if I add a new keyword to a photo within a session, can that new keyword be available within that set of overall keywords for other sessions?
2- Searching (most likely searching keywords). Is there a way to search through all my images, if I am in a session, even if they are outside of that particular session?
3- If I find an image within System Folders that is outside the current session, and I now want to work on that, is there a way to open the session it resides in without going to the Finder window and opening the session file?
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[quote="NNN636547779233695174" wrote:
Having migrated from Lightroom, I am inherently bringing a sense of how a catalog should act. That being said, I am not sure what C1's catalogs were actually intended for. Upgrade from v11 to v12 and it's better they said. Maybe a little, but I still can't have a catalog of all my images.
Why not? I import all my sessions into a master catalog in the end. About 30,000 images so far. (I only import the "keepers" - generally the ones that end up in the Selects folders of the sessions.And now my catalog crashes each and every time I try to open folders within it. Sessions though, I love them. I would love to only use sessions, but I am wondering if there is a way to use certain aspects of catalogs within sessions.
1- Within sessions, can I have access to an overall set of keywords? And if I add a new keyword to a photo within a session, can that new keyword be available within that set of overall keywords for other sessions?
Yes, if you create a keyword library and add the keywords to that, they will be available in the program generally. But session keywords are just for that session.
2- Searching (most likely searching keywords). Is there a way to search through all my images, if I am in a session, even if they are outside of that particular session?
No.
3- If I find an image within System Folders that is outside the current session, and I now want to work on that, is there a way to open the session it resides in without going to the Finder window and opening the session file?
You can go via the File menu in Capture One: File>Open...
Ian0 -
Mac or Windows?
1. Yes, you can have multiple system based Keyword sets that are available for all sessions and Catalogues.
If you add other words in a session they will be in the Session Keywords file. You can use those to create a new keyword library for system availability or add them to an existing KW library in some way.
2. Since sessions hold the IPTC and EXIF data in xml files per image (and per variant within image) if you are using Windows then the answer id YES but perhaps not strictly as you probably want it to happen!
That said you can have more than one session (or catalogue) open at the same time and searches can be performed in all of them.
If you have Keywords set up in the filters tool as a ready to use filter with usage counts you can just click on the word or words required so fast to pick the appropraite images.
3. You can open it in the current session and work on it - although you will actually be opening the folder in which it resides and so the browser would be showing you all of the images in that folder. (Is you found it whilst browsing using a session.)
Images can "live" in more than one session. Indeed they are not really associated with any session really, unless the folder in which they are contained is registered as a "Session Favourite". It could be registered as a favourite in multiple sessions.
That gets a little tricky to take in BUT remember that edit date for images related to a session will be help in a subfolder local to the image and is therefore readable and can be changed from any session. Just file that at the back of your mind for now ...
HTH.
Grant0 -
System info:
Model Name: iMac
Model Identifier: iMac18,3
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 4.2 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 8 MB
Hyper-Threading Technology: Enabled
Memory: 32 GB[quote="Ian3" wrote:
The reason is that I have found large catalogs to be slow, and as I said, my catalog now just crashes and is basically unusable. I have tried to contact Support about this, but just complete silence from them. With your 30k+ catalog, do you have any issues with crashing or with it being sluggish?
Why not? I import all my sessions into a master catalog in the end. About 30,000 images so far. (I only import the "keepers" - generally the ones that end up in the Selects folders of the sessions.
@SFA So perhaps when I create a new session I could use a template that auto loads a master list of keywords? But if I enter any new keywords in that session, I would need to manually add those to the masterlist, correct?[quote="SFA" wrote:
But if I open an image outside the session through a System Folder, it won't show the edits on that image that are contained within the session it came from, correct? And if I make changes to it, those changes won't update back to its original session. Am I understanding that correctly?
3. You can open it in the current session and work on it - although you will actually be opening the folder in which it resides and so the browser would be showing you all of the images in that folder. (Is you found it whilst browsing using a session.)0 -
[quote="NNN636547779233695174" wrote:
The reason is that I have found large catalogs to be slow, and as I said, my catalog now just crashes and is basically unusable. I have tried to contact Support about this, but just complete silence from them. With your 30k+ catalog, do you have any issues with crashing or with it being sluggish?
My desktop system is not the fastest - a late 2011 iMac, too old to run anything beyond High Sierra. If I move from an album, say, to All Images, it can take a few seconds for them all to show up, but nothing too bad. I don't get it crashing on me. Some of the images are on folders on my internal hard disc, but most of them are in folders on an external USB-connected hard disc. I usually try to leave it with one of my albums or smart albums selected when I close in the expectation that it will start up quicker that way next time.
Have you tried Verify Catalog or Session on the File menu?
Ian0 -
[quote="Ian3" wrote:
Have you tried Verify Catalog or Session on the File menu?
I have, but that causes a crash as well. No matter what, every time I open C1, my main catalog a two sessions open. I try to close those sessions before closing the program, and that works, but they open back up no matter what when reopening the program. If I close the window of the main catalog, everything crashes. If I try to verify the catalog while in a session, it asks me to close the catalog, which of course results in a crash.0 -
If it crashes, then it won't remember the things that were and weren't open when you closed down before. So are you saying that there is no way you can get the catalog closed without a crash? If you could, I would suggest getting just a single session open and then use the Verify command for the (close) catalog.
If you can't ever close the session without a crash, I think you will need to contact Support.
Ian0 -
@Ian3 I had tried to open C1 with just a session, without opening the catalog. But no matter what, it kept opening a few old sessions and the catalog. However, this time I went to the catalog window and went to File>Clost Window, instead of using the shortcut. The catalog closed without crashing the program. I was then able to verify and repair. Now when I open it, I'm able to navigate to images within the folders without the app crashing! 0 -
[quote="NNN636547779233695174" wrote:
@Ian3 I had tried to open C1 with just a session, without opening the catalog. But no matter what, it kept opening a few old sessions and the catalog. However, this time I went to the catalog window and went to File>Clost Window, instead of using the shortcut. The catalog closed without crashing the program. I was then able to verify and repair. Now when I open it, I'm able to navigate to images within the folders without the app crashing!
That must be a relief!
Ian0 -
[quote="NNN636547779233695174" wrote:
@SFA So perhaps when I create a new session I could use a template that auto loads a master list of keywords? But if I enter any new keywords in that session, I would need to manually add those to the masterlist, correct?[quote="SFA" wrote:
But if I open an image outside the session through a System Folder, it won't show the edits on that image that are contained within the session it came from, correct? And if I make changes to it, those changes won't update back to its original session. Am I understanding that correctly?
3. You can open it in the current session and work on it - although you will actually be opening the folder in which it resides and so the browser would be showing you all of the images in that folder. (Is you found it whilst browsing using a session.)
Open the Keyword Library tool and click on the "..." icon at the top right corner.
There you will some options for "doing stuff" with Keyword libraries for administrative purposes.
Since needs for Keywording can, in my experience, be quite different from one project to the next I don't think there is a a "standard" approach that could be described quickly and easily. But if you always shoot much the same subject matter then perhaps there is.
Somewhere between the corporate head shot shoot - where you subjects and KW identifiers may well only apply for a single shoot - to flora and fauna where you can find complete keyword libraries on line and they rarely change, most will find a balance that works for them.
A combination is usually appropriate. So maybe the globallly defined standardised flora or fauna library as a System based KW source but local information about the shoot (if KW based rather the IPTC type metadata) might be a session library.
If set up in a session and imported (the keepers or output files as suggested by Ian3) to the Catalogue the KW's should arrive with them and appear in the catalogue KW library.
For the second question.
Whichever session you use to open an image will look for an associated edit file for the image where it expects to find one if the image has previously been edited. It looks firstly for an edits file related to its own version of C1 but will also look backwards for edits made in earlier versions if no current version edit exists. Since the edits are not held in a central "catalogue" database they are available for use by any session of the current running release.
Any addition edits would be included in the edit files associated with that release level and therefore be available to any other session that also opened the same folder.
What is not possible is to open, say, a V20 edited file with V12 (or earlier). Mainly because there are almost always likely to be some differences in the edit information in the file that an earlier version would not have knowledge about and so likely to cause problems.
However if that file had been edited with V12 before then being edited with V20 the V12 version of the edit would still be available for V12 to access should you wish that to happen. The latest V20 edits would not appear of course.
Sadly when written down this can all sound rather daunting but in reality it isn't. One is advised to understand what is likely to happen but that is all quite logical once understood. And in essence very simple.
The principle practical difference between a catalogue and a session is that the catalogue database contains the information about all of the files it will be able to work, where they are AND the edits that have been applied to them together with the preview files and thumbnails that have been prepared for them. The known images can be help "Inside" the catalogue (Managed files) or remain outside but known (referenced files).
Using a session the session database MAY know about the files after import activity or because a folder or many folders have been connected to it by being identified as "favourites" (making it a little like a catalogue file) BUT it does not NEED to have those permanent links because the edit (Settings folder and sub contents) and cache information (Cache folder and sub contents) are located within the image's folder. Therefore any session can access the information. The image is not "owned" by a session. The session does not care whether the connection to an image is permanent or temporary. It will work with what it finds and advise accordingly where possible operational discrepancies arise.
If, later, you wish to import the results of a session activity to a catalogue (or even catalogues, perhaps, if that would be your preference) then you can do so and keep the work undertaken in the session, copying it into the catalogue.
That would not destroy the session. You can easily keep both although if you wish but remember that the image will lead an independent life in each catalogue or session. There is no connectivity, automatic or manual, to keep edits for an image updated between individual sessions and/or catalogues.
Importantly this is true for the location of the image.
If you move an image from one folder to another in a session a catalogue sharing that image would not know about that change of location. But then it would not care since sessions work with that they find rather than what the expect to find. However the edit files (Settings) would likely be detached from the source file and so when next opened in a session it would appear to be unedited.
The same would be true of a catalogue if a file was moved using a session although in that case the edits are known within the catalogue and so all that is required is to tell the catalogue where it might find the file.
HTH.
Grant0 -
@SFA Thank you for the detailed info! I will take some time today to go through it and test some things out.
Thank you BOTH for all your help! I am always amazed and so happy with the way people help each other out in forums like these. Thank you!0
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