New engine - different color treating
Hi,
It looks that new engine (11) works different in area of colour editor - truly in very unexpected way.
When you upgrade engine to veriosn 11, the same area selected in colour editor in fact covers different range of colours on the photo! It makes all presets which uses colour editor unusable - inlcuding the commercial ones prepared by Phase One. As example FL-01 - for colour range violet-red results on version 10 and 11 are totally different.
How is this going to be fixed?
Regards
Slawek
It looks that new engine (11) works different in area of colour editor - truly in very unexpected way.
When you upgrade engine to veriosn 11, the same area selected in colour editor in fact covers different range of colours on the photo! It makes all presets which uses colour editor unusable - inlcuding the commercial ones prepared by Phase One. As example FL-01 - for colour range violet-red results on version 10 and 11 are totally different.
How is this going to be fixed?
Regards
Slawek
0
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The way the color editor changed is very weird indeed.
I used to use the color editor to make changes to the background layer globally, and then reselect a particular color locally and give it back some punch (say, for an architecture interior shot, desaturate the blues globally and then give some blue back on the sky in the windows). In v10 all I had to do would be to counter the negative value applied globally with the equivalent positive one. So if I had -70 sat for a particular color slice on the background layer, adding +70 locally on a top layer would reset it to its base saturation.
Now in v11 this is almost impossible to do without stacking about 10 edits at 200 sat!!! This is so desrupting of my workflow that I had to go back to v10 while waiting for a possible fix.0 -
These changes are one point. This makes whole work done in version 10 incompatible with version 11 (at least if color editor was used) as it is likely that after upgrading engine to version 11 you will get totally different results.
But second: what about paid 69 EUR (bought) PhaseOne presets which suddenly do not work the same way as in version 10?
Is anybody from PhaseOne going to refer to that?0 -
The reason of the difference is that smoothless in 11 version works not like in earlier ones. 0 -
[quote="NN259523UL" wrote:
These changes are one point. This makes whole work done in version 10 incompatible with version 11 (at least if color editor was used) as it is likely that after upgrading engine to version 11 you will get totally different results.
But second: what about paid 69 EUR (bought) PhaseOne presets which suddenly do not work the same way as in version 10?
Is anybody from PhaseOne going to refer to that?
Actually, not only the color editor was completely "reworked". When I convert my photos from v10 to v11, all of them look noticeably darker (almost by half a stop); the auto levels do not work to bring the histogram back to the right, so I have to make custom curves for each image in order to make them look like the way they were before the "upgrade". This change in processing looks as big as going from version 8 to version 9, and it essentially makes all previous work usable only in "compatibility mode".0 -
[quote="NN259523UL" wrote:
Hi,
It looks that new engine (11) works different in area of colour editor - truly in very unexpected way.
When you upgrade engine to veriosn 11, the same area selected in colour editor in fact covers different range of colours on the photo! It makes all presets which uses colour editor unusable - inlcuding the commercial ones prepared by Phase One. As example FL-01 - for colour range violet-red results on version 10 and 11 are totally different.
How is this going to be fixed?
Regards
Slawek
It is not, because it is not a bug, but a feature.
That why we have the Engine concept in the first place. When using Capture One 11, images edited in Capture One 10, will stay on Engine 10 in Capture One 11, and thus they look exactly the same in Capture One 11. Capture One will never alter your image like that without user interaction.
The engines are indeed different, and that difference does not always translate equally well for all adjustments or image-types.
In CO 11, the Color Editor is now much more precise, and if converted from Eng 10 to Eng 11, there will be cases where that extra precision is not useful for that particular image.
However, for new image edits, that extra precision translates into more predictable results, better masks from color edits, and the ability to more precisely select the hue and saturation levels in question.0 -
And what about paid PhaseOne styles? Are they going to be updated and published for those who bought them? 0 -
[quote="NN259523UL" wrote:
And what about paid PhaseOne styles? Are they going to be updated and published for those who bought them?
I am not involved in the development or maintenance of the styles, so I am not the right person to ask.
Please contact our Support team, they will forward your request.0 -
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="NN259523UL" wrote:
And what about paid PhaseOne styles? Are they going to be updated and published for those who bought them?
I am not involved in the development or maintenance of the styles, so I am not the right person to ask.
Please contact our Support team, they will forward your request.
It seems to me that the team that produces and maintains the styles and the team that maintains Media Pro are way too detached from the team that develops C1. That's not good. Please convey that feeling to your company, Christian. I really like C1 and think v11 is great but the ecosystem you've created should be part of the equation too. I've shelled out $207 for 3 styles packs a month ago and am not too happy about that.0 -
[quote="Emile" wrote:
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="NN259523UL" wrote:
And what about paid PhaseOne styles? Are they going to be updated and published for those who bought them?
I am not involved in the development or maintenance of the styles, so I am not the right person to ask.
Please contact our Support team, they will forward your request.
It seems to me that the team that produces and maintains the styles and the team that maintains Media Pro are way too detached from the team that develops C1. That's not good. Please convey that feeling to your company, Christian. I really like C1 and think v11 is great but the ecosystem you've created should be part of the equation too. I've shelled out $207 for 3 styles packs a month ago and am not too happy about that.
For now, you can get going by using this advice from our Support guys:
viewtopic.php?f=71&t=27133#p1282580 -
I noticed in beta but didn't have time to report. 0 -
Capture One is known for its exceptional handling of color (https://www.phaseone.com/en/Products/So ... tures.aspx)
Thats why I could imagine the following things:
a) Using a style in combination with a layer does not Support the Basic color adjustment. When a Software with exceptional color handling discard "color" from a style, when using it with a layer, i am really amazed.
b) The new enginge alters the way the color editor works, which affects the styles used. In Version 11 a style can give an other color as in Version 10 - that is really exceptional handling of color. One reason for buying Capture One Styles was, that I thought this would guarantee compability from Version to Version. Looks like that was a wrong assumption. So please, don't call it a Feature (Christian Gruners post in the same thread),
c) In Version 10 Phase One introduced a really nice way of applying styles. Now, in Version 11, when I want to use a style on a layer, I have to click through lists, as in Version 10. Why is it not possible to select a layer, and than apply a style as in Version 10?
Don't get me wrong: I like Version 10 and I think it's an outstanding product. And I had great experience with your Support. But Version 11 looks unfinished to my eyes. I would like to get a real professional answer to the listed issues, which could be: we are working hard to solve these Problems as fast as possible. "Ist not a bug ist a Feature" sounds more like: we don't care about our customers. Im really amazed.
Chris0 -
Thats why I COULD NOT imagine the following things: 0 -
[quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
I noticed in beta but didn't have time to report.
Than what is the point of being a beta tester?
I've always wondered why PO didn't get more working photographers involved in testing.0 -
[quote="Edward51" wrote:
[quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
I noticed in beta but didn't have time to report.
Than what is the point of being a beta tester?
I've always wondered why PO didn't get more working photographers involved in testing.
Everyone can sign up to be a beta tester. I haven't got a link for you but perusing the PhaseOne website will get you there.0 -
[quote="Edward51" wrote:
[quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
I noticed in beta but didn't have time to report.
Than what is the point of being a beta tester?
I've always wondered why PO didn't get more working photographers involved in testing.
Actually, CO 11 have had most involvement of active, skilled, varied photographers of any CO release, from design-phase over alpha-stage to the beta.
If you want to be in on the next beta, you can sign up at https://www.phaseone.com/beta .0 -
[quote="Christian Gruner" wrote:
[quote="Edward51" wrote:
[quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
I noticed in beta but didn't have time to report.
Than what is the point of being a beta tester?
I've always wondered why PO didn't get more working photographers involved in testing.
Actually, CO 11 have had most involvement of active, skilled, varied photographers of any CO release, from design-phase over alpha-stage to the beta.
If you want to be in on the next beta, you can sign up at https://www.phaseone.com/beta .
Hmm, its seems all of these testers missed this styles color issue, or were too lazy to report it.
I've been using C1P since v3, but I do not use the catalog, adjustment brush features, etc, which seem to get the most attention these days. I certainly can test tethered use and raw controls and conversion.0 -
[quote="Edward51" wrote:
[quote="gusferlizi" wrote:
I noticed in beta but didn't have time to report.
Than what is the point of being a beta tester?
I've always wondered why PO didn't get more working photographers involved in testing.
They are probably too busy to want to be involved on a general basis.
They may not use everything in terms of functionality - who does?
If you spot a problem just before release (not a pre-annonced date) there may simply not be enough time to check it completely and make the report.
HTH.
Grant0
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