Repeated crashes, why and the broader implications
Before we start, please recognise that this is very long and be satisfied that I thought Capture One good enough even to bother!
Unfortunately, this is a crash report and very much more. It is so very long partly because of the crash itself even though I think I may have succeeded in figuring out what went wrong, why it happened and in the short term what to do about it. Since it occurred, I have finally recovered use of Capture One on my own and it remains to be seen if this is maintained or if it happens again for the same or another related or unrelated reason. However, not only is there the problem and it’s direct cause that dismays me, but also the implications.
There appears to be an underlying root cause at least in part that I quickly became aware of ever since I first discovered Capture One and scanned through the pdf Users Manual before deciding to install and use it on a trial basis. It is the quality of the documentation and assumptions possibly made in the actual design which I’ll get to later. If it is suitable mainly for high volume professional batch users, then fair enough, except that you have not said that.
So, before I get into the meat of this problem, let me say that I am looking for a comprehensive response from you on all accounts and one that reassures me sufficiently. (I imagine your contract has the usual “take it as-is†cop out.) Otherwise, I may not buy after all where between this and my earlier message about your recommendations for a book on Capture One earlier this morning, I was actually on the verge of going ahead with the purchase. After this saga, I will leave it to my 30 days right up to the wire and see what else is a problem, if anything.
1) I believe my problem may be “Sessions†and that alone. I had had a crash right at the very outset when I tried to import image files from my hard drive before identifying a session the first time around. The reason for this was that the concept was new and unfamiliar to me and I would not even have wanted to use sessions had I known and understood. However, if that’s part of the design, fair enough and I quickly got over that hurdle – until this morning.
“Fair enough†– well not really, as it later turns out. Far from it. I think Sessions still are the problem. Let get to the three or four crashes I have had this morning and the apparent reasons from my perspective.
2) Having to use sessions in Capture One (against my will), I set some up and was merrily using them until last night. As I am a newcomer to Capture One and indeed new to my Nikon D300 acquired only two weeks ago, I was methodically investigating my options how to get round the fact that Photoshop CS2 cannot access NEFs from this camera unless you use the Adobe DNG Converter on them first or another alternative to Camera RAW altogether. I did not want to upgrade to CS4 and pay a large amount just because of that.
[Previously, I had tried the DNG converter but I did not like Adobe Camera RAW. I still would not have liked it had it not frequently hung with the result that, when I tried to close down Adobe Bridge from which I had invoked it by trying to open some DNGs, a message said it could not shut down because it was waiting for a response from me. This is nonsense because nowhere, not even hidden under other windows, was there anything to respond to. This has happened many, many times and I expect to run into now every time I use it.]
3) Am I getting into something similar in Capture One as with Adobe Camera RAW? I hope not but that remains to be seen after three crashes this morning. After since appearing to find my way around the problem, here is my diagnosis whether true or false!
Within Capture One, on Sessions there is the option to create them, open them, open a recently used session or, under the pull down for the last of these, clear history. After using the last, the list of existing sessions was empty, not even the Capture One default is shown but, from Windows Explorer, I could see they all were still there. Resulting from that, I think I was reasonable in assuming, it meant the references within Capture One had been deleted by clearing history, so I deleted all of them instead of the one I had set up on its own afterwards and used before I exited Capture One. If I was wrong to have done this, then tell me why the manual says nothing whatsoever about deleting sessions, not even about the functionality of the option to clear history? If you cannot delete sessions, then why have an option to clear history? Why say nothing in the manual about this and why not build into the software the capability to deal with this without repeated crashes?
4) Nonetheless. The first time I tried to use Capture One this morning, it opened normally as it should because I had left it last time with one session remaining which I had set up after clearing history and used successfully since. Why could I not clear specific sessions? Why is it all or none? Very odd. Why was the one I has set up after clearing the history and used not good enough?
(a) Even though Capture One this morning opened normally the first time, it still soon crashed. The first time, that was when I pressed Ctrl-V to hide the Viewer, having previous set that up in previous use where up to then it had worked fine. I suspected that was the reason, but was not sure why. However, I was wrong because successive attempts to open and use Capture One also led to a crash. [Your manual on custom shortcuts is totally lacking, so is the functionality because you cannot even back out if you choose one which already is in use elsewhere.]
(b) However, subsequently, the system as it first began to load said it could not find my session and did I want to select one or use the default? The first time I said the former which still led to a crash. The next time, I said the latter and it still led to a crash. The fourth time, I said the latter and then discovered before I tried to use anything and it crashed again that, not only had the system failed to link to my one remaining folder, it also had lost the record of where I had put it on my hard drive. I have reinstated that, reinstated my chosen folder there and so far so good. That may be the end of the story, except…
5) Even if it is, there are several loose ends.
(a) Firstly, if Capture One sets up its own files in session folders and elsewhere, as it appear to do whenever you create and use particular sessions, then it ought to sever those links and no longer need them when you use the clear sessions history option, at least those files and subfolders in the session folders.
(b) Secondly, if Capture One still needs information in folders that you have cleared from history, the manual ought to say fully and clearly what you can and cannot do. After all, even a dormant session in the hands of a busy professional user is not going to stay in use for ever, certainly not necessarily. So, either way, why does your manual say so little about sessions and nothing whatsoever about clearing history and how to safely delete sessions globally, selectively or both?
6) I could go one at length but let me just say this. Earlier this morning before all this, I asked for you to recommend any really excellent books in hard copy? I saw the need for that very early, even before I installed and started to try out the system. Like Adobe Lightroom but not as bad, it was not easy to see even how to start using it, especially if the formal concept of workflow and sessions built into the logic was a new and largely unfamiliar concept in this context.
Take stock of my first forum enquiry “I do not want to save, only manipulate†whereby you might appreciate that low volume users, certainly some amateur low volume photographers may have no interest in sessions or batch processing, merely wanting straight in and out to process a single picture at a time or something more in that direction. So why so little in the manual, making it an exercise in seeing around corners for the first time user unless he fits into your predominant customer profile (in the non-technical sense of that word)?
7) So far, my perceptions of Capture One are that it handles conversion from RAW and basic manipulation well, its GUI is superb and the flexibility of the GUI is excellent even without moving around bits of toolbars, which I have not even tried because, as a low volume amateur, no way I would pay the extra for the professional version. I was very disappointed about the HDR controls and similar tools which seemed next to useless compared to Nikon ViewNX which is free, either that or I failed to figure out how to use them effectively because your manual saying nothing beyond mentioning that they exist.
Regrettably, the manual is in stark contrast to the product.
Before I get to that, let me cite a somewhat similar personal experience which I recall as I am about to write what I think about yours. I spent forty years in Information Technology - is that also what you call it in Denmark? - and at one point I was coerced into writing a manual for a software house which, at the time was very successful. I had no idea about the software concerned either technically or from a business perspective - nor any prospect of first rectifying that - but the manager who was behind this exercise quite aware of that gave me a long and detailed list of headings and subheadings and merely wanted me to write a few lines of convincing rubbish so as to go through the motions and to appear, to the unsuspecting buyer of the software, that the system actually had comprehensive documentation.
9) No #8 because your system thinks it is a smiley! How much better is your documentation of Capture One than that and how well can I manage without it or more crashes? Whether I go ahead and buy Capture One will largely depend upon your answer, further experimentation on my part and other software as an alternative which is as good, or if not cheaper. Raw Therapee is amazing for free and I would have chosen it had it not been for it failing to output 16 bit into CS2 when I asked it to!
10) So finally, is Capture One a good or possibly even a brilliant product let down by poor documentation? If so, it certainly will not be the first. Forty years of Information Technology in the finance and commercial sectors and the poor standards that are virtually universal (and not just in Britain as I lived abroad for twelve years) unless you work for NASA (possibly even then) and I am not surprised but very disappointed. So answer me honestly and comprehensively and tell me about those excellent books on it.
Are there any? I and other readers of this may be very interested in your reply to this.
Unfortunately, this is a crash report and very much more. It is so very long partly because of the crash itself even though I think I may have succeeded in figuring out what went wrong, why it happened and in the short term what to do about it. Since it occurred, I have finally recovered use of Capture One on my own and it remains to be seen if this is maintained or if it happens again for the same or another related or unrelated reason. However, not only is there the problem and it’s direct cause that dismays me, but also the implications.
There appears to be an underlying root cause at least in part that I quickly became aware of ever since I first discovered Capture One and scanned through the pdf Users Manual before deciding to install and use it on a trial basis. It is the quality of the documentation and assumptions possibly made in the actual design which I’ll get to later. If it is suitable mainly for high volume professional batch users, then fair enough, except that you have not said that.
So, before I get into the meat of this problem, let me say that I am looking for a comprehensive response from you on all accounts and one that reassures me sufficiently. (I imagine your contract has the usual “take it as-is†cop out.) Otherwise, I may not buy after all where between this and my earlier message about your recommendations for a book on Capture One earlier this morning, I was actually on the verge of going ahead with the purchase. After this saga, I will leave it to my 30 days right up to the wire and see what else is a problem, if anything.
1) I believe my problem may be “Sessions†and that alone. I had had a crash right at the very outset when I tried to import image files from my hard drive before identifying a session the first time around. The reason for this was that the concept was new and unfamiliar to me and I would not even have wanted to use sessions had I known and understood. However, if that’s part of the design, fair enough and I quickly got over that hurdle – until this morning.
“Fair enough†– well not really, as it later turns out. Far from it. I think Sessions still are the problem. Let get to the three or four crashes I have had this morning and the apparent reasons from my perspective.
2) Having to use sessions in Capture One (against my will), I set some up and was merrily using them until last night. As I am a newcomer to Capture One and indeed new to my Nikon D300 acquired only two weeks ago, I was methodically investigating my options how to get round the fact that Photoshop CS2 cannot access NEFs from this camera unless you use the Adobe DNG Converter on them first or another alternative to Camera RAW altogether. I did not want to upgrade to CS4 and pay a large amount just because of that.
[Previously, I had tried the DNG converter but I did not like Adobe Camera RAW. I still would not have liked it had it not frequently hung with the result that, when I tried to close down Adobe Bridge from which I had invoked it by trying to open some DNGs, a message said it could not shut down because it was waiting for a response from me. This is nonsense because nowhere, not even hidden under other windows, was there anything to respond to. This has happened many, many times and I expect to run into now every time I use it.]
3) Am I getting into something similar in Capture One as with Adobe Camera RAW? I hope not but that remains to be seen after three crashes this morning. After since appearing to find my way around the problem, here is my diagnosis whether true or false!
Within Capture One, on Sessions there is the option to create them, open them, open a recently used session or, under the pull down for the last of these, clear history. After using the last, the list of existing sessions was empty, not even the Capture One default is shown but, from Windows Explorer, I could see they all were still there. Resulting from that, I think I was reasonable in assuming, it meant the references within Capture One had been deleted by clearing history, so I deleted all of them instead of the one I had set up on its own afterwards and used before I exited Capture One. If I was wrong to have done this, then tell me why the manual says nothing whatsoever about deleting sessions, not even about the functionality of the option to clear history? If you cannot delete sessions, then why have an option to clear history? Why say nothing in the manual about this and why not build into the software the capability to deal with this without repeated crashes?
4) Nonetheless. The first time I tried to use Capture One this morning, it opened normally as it should because I had left it last time with one session remaining which I had set up after clearing history and used successfully since. Why could I not clear specific sessions? Why is it all or none? Very odd. Why was the one I has set up after clearing the history and used not good enough?
(a) Even though Capture One this morning opened normally the first time, it still soon crashed. The first time, that was when I pressed Ctrl-V to hide the Viewer, having previous set that up in previous use where up to then it had worked fine. I suspected that was the reason, but was not sure why. However, I was wrong because successive attempts to open and use Capture One also led to a crash. [Your manual on custom shortcuts is totally lacking, so is the functionality because you cannot even back out if you choose one which already is in use elsewhere.]
(b) However, subsequently, the system as it first began to load said it could not find my session and did I want to select one or use the default? The first time I said the former which still led to a crash. The next time, I said the latter and it still led to a crash. The fourth time, I said the latter and then discovered before I tried to use anything and it crashed again that, not only had the system failed to link to my one remaining folder, it also had lost the record of where I had put it on my hard drive. I have reinstated that, reinstated my chosen folder there and so far so good. That may be the end of the story, except…
5) Even if it is, there are several loose ends.
(a) Firstly, if Capture One sets up its own files in session folders and elsewhere, as it appear to do whenever you create and use particular sessions, then it ought to sever those links and no longer need them when you use the clear sessions history option, at least those files and subfolders in the session folders.
(b) Secondly, if Capture One still needs information in folders that you have cleared from history, the manual ought to say fully and clearly what you can and cannot do. After all, even a dormant session in the hands of a busy professional user is not going to stay in use for ever, certainly not necessarily. So, either way, why does your manual say so little about sessions and nothing whatsoever about clearing history and how to safely delete sessions globally, selectively or both?
6) I could go one at length but let me just say this. Earlier this morning before all this, I asked for you to recommend any really excellent books in hard copy? I saw the need for that very early, even before I installed and started to try out the system. Like Adobe Lightroom but not as bad, it was not easy to see even how to start using it, especially if the formal concept of workflow and sessions built into the logic was a new and largely unfamiliar concept in this context.
Take stock of my first forum enquiry “I do not want to save, only manipulate†whereby you might appreciate that low volume users, certainly some amateur low volume photographers may have no interest in sessions or batch processing, merely wanting straight in and out to process a single picture at a time or something more in that direction. So why so little in the manual, making it an exercise in seeing around corners for the first time user unless he fits into your predominant customer profile (in the non-technical sense of that word)?
7) So far, my perceptions of Capture One are that it handles conversion from RAW and basic manipulation well, its GUI is superb and the flexibility of the GUI is excellent even without moving around bits of toolbars, which I have not even tried because, as a low volume amateur, no way I would pay the extra for the professional version. I was very disappointed about the HDR controls and similar tools which seemed next to useless compared to Nikon ViewNX which is free, either that or I failed to figure out how to use them effectively because your manual saying nothing beyond mentioning that they exist.
Regrettably, the manual is in stark contrast to the product.
Before I get to that, let me cite a somewhat similar personal experience which I recall as I am about to write what I think about yours. I spent forty years in Information Technology - is that also what you call it in Denmark? - and at one point I was coerced into writing a manual for a software house which, at the time was very successful. I had no idea about the software concerned either technically or from a business perspective - nor any prospect of first rectifying that - but the manager who was behind this exercise quite aware of that gave me a long and detailed list of headings and subheadings and merely wanted me to write a few lines of convincing rubbish so as to go through the motions and to appear, to the unsuspecting buyer of the software, that the system actually had comprehensive documentation.
9) No #8 because your system thinks it is a smiley! How much better is your documentation of Capture One than that and how well can I manage without it or more crashes? Whether I go ahead and buy Capture One will largely depend upon your answer, further experimentation on my part and other software as an alternative which is as good, or if not cheaper. Raw Therapee is amazing for free and I would have chosen it had it not been for it failing to output 16 bit into CS2 when I asked it to!
10) So finally, is Capture One a good or possibly even a brilliant product let down by poor documentation? If so, it certainly will not be the first. Forty years of Information Technology in the finance and commercial sectors and the poor standards that are virtually universal (and not just in Britain as I lived abroad for twelve years) unless you work for NASA (possibly even then) and I am not surprised but very disappointed. So answer me honestly and comprehensively and tell me about those excellent books on it.
Are there any? I and other readers of this may be very interested in your reply to this.
0
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I cannot argue with that but I will, politely! That you have conclusions so quickly, your experiences must have been dreadful.
However, as I said earlier, I ran several tests fairly carefully and comparisons and had no such findings at 400 ISO. I only want to use the exposure compensation, highlight and shadow protection and rely upon Photoshop for everything else. I had no problems with those controls, quite the opposite in fact. I thought the results with them were far better than anything else I tried including Capture One.
No question about the interface being limited but hardly horrible. I had no problem with the sliders and, in any case you can key in numbers there, which I do not find a problem. I am not looking for a result from ViewNX that has to be spot on and final, just close enough that after manipulation in Photoshop, I am not degraded because of informationm I lost from the RAW file even before getting to Photoshop. I think our objectives are so different that both of us could be right !!!
Slow, certainly. The approach Capture One takes to simulate immediate results as if for real by displaying them on the jpeg and only applying them on the RAW file when you hit the button (Process, if I remember correctly) is very clever and very, very effective.
Thanks for trying, anyway.0 -
Well I do agree with the fact that our objectives are far different that we are both right. I have been using CO for quite some time, and have never experienced the issues many here have complained about. I am not bragging, just stating my experience. If I had the experiences you and many others had, I may feel differently.
The way I use CO is to get my photo as close to the real thing as possible including exposure, color, noise, sharpness, and lens distortion; then use Photoshop for retouching of imperfections, and adjusting locale areas. One of the most photographed landmarks here in New Jersey is the Clinton Mill (http://images.google.com/images?q=clint ... =en&tab=wi), when I took pictures of it about a month ago, it was completely faded, and the sun was beaming on it as it was the top of the day. The mill is supposed to be red, but with it being so faded, and in the direct sun, it was pale orange; CO was able to restore the mill to a nice deep freshly painted red. My feeling is take advantage of the RAW data since it is the easiest to manipulate.
I'll have to play around with it some more, but after opening the first image and having it look so wrong does sour my opinion. This same image in the camera looks the same as it does in CO, but in ViewNX, it is way off. I can't help but feel there is something wrong with the program, or I am missing something completely.0 -
My intuition is that the display of the NEF in ViewNX may be substandard or just the color controls or both in which case, for the changes you wish to make, Capture One obviouly is superior. Even if I am right about those possible defficiencies it still is possible that, for the limited changes I wish to make, ViewNX does a perfectly good job. Certainly it did with the shots I ran through both and any changes to the colour inadvertently introduced with either was so slight as to be nitpicking. All I did notice was a tiny difference between the two in the colour of shadows in clouds in one of my shots.
My thinking is that the conversion engine in ViewNX is probably the same as Capture NX2 but that the display in the former possibly uses more rudimentary features of Windows rather than its own. Just a guess but, if so, that probably puts it in the same category as you described for Canon software! Nonetheless it may not be a problem for me. Only trouble is I might still suffer degradation in some cases, without having any means of knowing that better results were possible.
The problem is I am not the only one who has had trouble with crashes on Capture One. Note the other forum writers saying the same. Did you see the recent thread started on this? You can imagine how furious I would be to reinstall my whole system, put Capture One on early asnd still have the same problem. You cannot rule that out just as I have found with Adobe Gamma on three PCs now, as I cannot use it to save a changed profile. It says a dll is missing even though it is not. Fortunately, my technique for colour management does not require it because I found another means of dealing with this issue when I was using Photoshop Elements a few years ago. The author of the book Hidden Elements thought it was a good idea. It was to adjust the colours in the printer dialogue so that my results when printed matched my screen. It works consistently enough and without bothering about the myriad of colour management settings Adobe invite you to make in Photoshop without giving a proper explanation what each is for. As far as I can see three ought to suffice, one for the monitor, one for the printer and one for the paper.
There remains the possibility that my approach with ViewNX and not using "proper" colour management in Photoshop may means I never get the best out of my D300 and never know. Fact is as long as it is hugely better than what I could do with film in my F80, does it matter? You could argue that either way and actually I have not made my mind up yet!0 -
Paul 1921 - did you give a fresh coat of paint in Capture One or Photoshop? Having looked at your picture of the mill I was able to find your notes on how you produced it.
That led me to thinking about what we have been discussing again. No photographic process can produce entirely accurate colours because the colour space on this planet in real life, with cameras, monitors and in prints are all different. Therefore, to some extent the matter of what is good colour is subjective. And that makes me wonder if I were using Capture One, would I necessarily agree with you that the colours are better? I also remember a while back you said the tonal range was better. I could find no differences on that with ViewNX whatsoever.
Maybe the best is that you stick to Capture One and I forego reinstalling my PC just in case Dell throw me a curve if I start that. Besides, I have fears the reinstall may fail and Dell support also fails. But even if I get over that hurdle and Capture One then does work, I may not see any improvement with Capture One anyway!
I have learned a lot here, more about things that can go wrong because of the build of PCs than about Capture One. Maybe this thread should have been somewhere else as relatively little is about Capture One.
I suspect we definitely can agree that it is better out taking good pictures and processing them than spending too much time discusssing the technicalities. Which very stimualting though it has been, is what this has now become.
I think we should call it a day but as I do, again my sincere thanks to you.0 -
Actually the photos I sent to you were not mine, I can send them to you if you'd like. The fresh coat of paint I referred to was in fact in CO. I used the color editor to saturate the red, and truly make the mill stand out. I wanted you to see at least a visual of what I was referring to, and that the many pictures that you saw, the red mill all were different shades.
I also spoke to a Nikon Photographer I know personally about ViewNX, and what I had experienced about the bizarre high ISO color I was getting. We both suspect that Nikon may be using different color profiles for different ISOs, if that is the case, that is a huge issue, for me at least. I want to be able to look at my preview in the camera, and have a clue at least as to what I have to work with.0 -
Paul1921, thanks for the comments. There are some interesting points, particularly the MB board comments. The thing is that I have a lot of software and all the rest of it runs fine. I suspect it is a .NET issue in my case and not a hardware issue. I have no issues with any othe software. Not CS2 or CS3, Not Captue NX or Capture NX 4, Not Adobe Bridge. Not with Corel Draw versions 9 & 11. No problems in the MS Office Suite. No problems with two versions of RawShooter Pro (5&6). No problems with Silkypix or numerous other applications for drawing and drafting. Capture One is the only application that hangs. It is possible that there is a path / function that CO uses that other applications do not but I suspect it it is software related. It may be a Microsoft issue but if that is the case then use a differnt method for the troublesome area in the software.
I reallt like CO but it is very frustrating. Imagecore faults on a regular basis.
Thanks0 -
[quote="Andrew71" wrote:
Paul1921, thanks for the comments. There are some interesting points, particularly the MB board comments. The thing is that I have a lot of software and all the rest of it runs fine. I suspect it is a .NET issue in my case and not a hardware issue. I have no issues with any othe software. Not CS2 or CS3, Not Captue NX or Capture NX 4, Not Adobe Bridge. Not with Corel Draw versions 9 & 11. No problems in the MS Office Suite. No problems with two versions of RawShooter Pro (5&6). No problems with Silkypix or numerous other applications for drawing and drafting. Capture One is the only application that hangs. It is possible that there is a path / function that CO uses that other applications do not but I suspect it it is software related. It may be a Microsoft issue but if that is the case then use a differnt method for the troublesome area in the software.
I reallt like CO but it is very frustrating. Imagecore faults on a regular basis.
Thanks
Way back in the beginning of Capture one v4, when it was still a bèta, I could not get it to run. It would crash immediately when starting the program, and for a long time I could only read about the software while others were trying it out.
I searched for every possible cause but nothing made a difference. Only when I found a tool on the internet, that could safely and thouroughly uninstall áll versions of .NET, making it possible to install the whole .NET again, suddenly Capture One v4 would run, and I never experienced a single problem or crash with any of the versions again. Still Capture One was the only program using .NET that gave me problems (and I had several installed at the time).
You could try to find the .Net uninstall program (it was specifically developed by a microsoft employee to adress the numerous issues with installing .NET's newer versions over older (bèta)verions, or simply trying to uninstall the program, and according to the reactions on his blog, he saved many people a severe headache). Uninstall áll of it, and install again. It did the trick for me, when nothing else helped.
Chris0 -
See also the Phase One knowledgebase articles regarding crashing and .NET repair:
.NET repair XP:
http://www.phaseone.com/home/Content/Su ... 20-%20Main
.NET repair Vista:
http://www.phaseone.com/home/Content/Su ... 20-%20Main
Capture One 4 crash on Windows:
http://www.phaseone.com/HOME/Content/Su ... 20-%20Main
and of course you can do a search in the KB articles.0 -
[quote="christiaan" wrote:
[quote="Andrew71" wrote:
Paul1921, thanks for the comments. There are some interesting points, particularly the MB board comments. The thing is that I have a lot of software and all the rest of it runs fine. I suspect it is a .NET issue in my case and not a hardware issue. I have no issues with any othe software. Not CS2 or CS3, Not Captue NX or Capture NX 4, Not Adobe Bridge. Not with Corel Draw versions 9 & 11. No problems in the MS Office Suite. No problems with two versions of RawShooter Pro (5&6). No problems with Silkypix or numerous other applications for drawing and drafting. Capture One is the only application that hangs. It is possible that there is a path / function that CO uses that other applications do not but I suspect it it is software related. It may be a Microsoft issue but if that is the case then use a differnt method for the troublesome area in the software.
I reallt like CO but it is very frustrating. Imagecore faults on a regular basis.
Thanks
Thanks Chris, I will give that a try I have run the repair a number of time but again CO seems to be the only applcation that requires this to be done.
Thanks
Andrew.
Way back in the beginning of Capture one v4, when it was still a bèta, I could not get it to run. It would crash immediately when starting the program, and for a long time I could only read about the software while others were trying it out.
I searched for every possible cause but nothing made a difference. Only when I found a tool on the internet, that could safely and thouroughly uninstall áll versions of .NET, making it possible to install the whole .NET again, suddenly Capture One v4 would run, and I never experienced a single problem or crash with any of the versions again. Still Capture One was the only program using .NET that gave me problems (and I had several installed at the time).
You could try to find the .Net uninstall program (it was specifically developed by a microsoft employee to adress the numerous issues with installing .NET's newer versions over older (bèta)verions, or simply trying to uninstall the program, and according to the reactions on his blog, he saved many people a severe headache). Uninstall áll of it, and install again. It did the trick for me, when nothing else helped.
Chris0 -
I had said I was done with this thread but I came back in fairness to others who have put a lot of time and trouble in their contributions here. I wanted to say a couple of additional things that might be helpful to a few of them.
Based on Paul1921's scathing comments about ViewNX after he recently tested it, I was resolved to check out his criticisms for myself but I never even got that far. Because of the following I have contacted Nikon with rather scathing criticism of them. Perhaps their software is not always so much better than Canon's.
For those who are interested let me warn you of flaws with ViewNX 1.4 that I have just discovered. I was shocked to find that when I used it to to generate a batch of TIFs it ignored vertically orientated picture settings and so made a smaller pixel image, taking the shorter side as if the longer one. Also, on at least one occasion, it ignored the fact that I had later unchecked the resize option and generated less than full size TIFs from all images in the batch, when full size is what I had wanted and expected. Now that has nothing to do with the quality of the conversion engine itself but it does lead me to have suspicions about what else might be wrong with ViewNX, including anything that may lead to imperfections that are of concern. I have to suspect that Nikon are devoting limited funds to the development of ViewNX and are being careless with it. Therefore, I have abandoned it for regular use and, having tried Adobe Camera Raw in Photoshop CS2 again from NEFs converted to DNGs using the Adobe DNG Converter 5.4, had no more freezing of Camera Raw. So I probably will stick to that unless the freezing starts again.
However, I am in any case glad I came back here even if my intention had only been to add the above. For what I now discover are suspicions that many of the crashes I and others have been experiencing with Capture One are down to Net Framework. I suggest you also have a look at some of the other threads about crashes with Capture One, especially "I'm still having big problems with CO". There are quite a few of them. Maybe many of these also are because of Net Framework. I think my problems probably are because of it. The arguments in that direction are quite strong. Capture One was the only application giving me serious trouble and the only one on my PC using Net Framework. I am not going to reinstall Net Framework how it has been suggested but will retain that advice in case I need it in the future. I prefer instead to avoid applications using Net Framework. It is quite a sizeable application and like most bloatware, I had always thought part of the reason for that might be bad design. I now have more reasons to think that view might have been justified all along.
As Vaughn says in "I'm still having big problems with CO", I'm still hoping that Phase One support will help because I have used and like a lot CO. But if genuine, timely support isn't part of the software, then I'm using the wrong product.
Frankly, if sales of Capture One are so low that there are no independent books on it (that’s where we started John4 when I wrote “Can you recommend any books on Capture One?†[Note keepreal = keptreal, just a different email address]) and likewise with Phase One support of it, then CO is not for me either. Which is a pity, but a cautionary fact of life.0 -
[quote="keptreal" wrote:
Frankly, if sales of Capture One are so low that there are no independent books on it (that’s where we started John4 when I wrote “Can you recommend any books on Capture One?†[Note keepreal = keptreal, just a different email address]) and likewise with Phase One support of it, then CO is not for me either. Which is a pity, but a cautionary fact of life.
Just for the record....I did not suggest sales as the reason. I did suggest something I'll state with a little more clarity....and IMHO only:
PhaseOne updates are frequent and for the most part free to users. Adobe's business model is different, upgrades are lengthier between releases, and for the most part charged. In other words, they leave a release on the table long enough for a cottage industry of support and education to develop. PhaseOne presents a moving target for that industry....BUT access to new features and new improvements is almost immediate.
That's what I want, and the cost of ownership is way under compared to LR/ACR. My choice, works for me as the features are documented in the constantly revised manual available under the HELP menu. Works for me...if not for you, choices are good.0 -
Keptreal, I fully understand your concerns with ViewNX. Truthfully I thought it to be a lousy product as well for different reasons, but your are startling.
I think you may want to take a closer look at your new method of processing RAW's though. To me it seems you are loosing lots of data, and quality. When I first started using RAW, I started out with Adobe Lightroom 1 over CO 3.7 for the truly dumb reason of the pretty GUI. Lightroom 1 used the same RAW engine as PhotoShop CS3 (ACR 4.x), and then I started to notice that Lightroom was not able to render details in the deep black shadows such as truly black hair. Black hair looked closer to a black blob, than hair. If I used the shadow tool to recover the detail, the black color was off. Then I tried CO 3.7, and the detail in the deep black hair was right on. With that said, I know for certain you are losing details, and possibly more with two conversions (NEF to DNG, DNG to whatever).
It seems to me it would be easier to try a compele removal of .Net, and see if you can get CO to work. I found a utility from Aaron Stebner which does work wonders in cleaning all traces of .Net so you can do a clean install. You truthfully want to do a complete removal of CO as well so you can reinstall it after .Net. The utility can be found at http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/ ... 11355.aspx. The user reviews are pretty good as well as it seems to have solved many problems for people. If it works, you have a far simpler work flow, and less chance of losing data.
Let me know your thought.0 -
I have comments in reply to both Paul1921 and John4. You both seem to know pretty well what you are talking about.
First Paul1921. While not ignoring what you are saying, for the timebeing I am going to stick to converting from NEF to DNG with the Adobe DNG converter and from there input the DNG into Photoshop CS2. I will look out for degradation of the shadows and, if I suspect it were a concern, consider your advice to try reinstalling Net Framework and giving Capture One another whirl. Yet it is quite possible that your findings are completely valid yet not a concern for me at all.
The reasons for saying this that initially occur to me are these. Firstly, fairly often I selectively fine tune the colour in different parts of the picture because I can be quite fussy sometimes. As no process is perfect and, in any case, I sometimes want to improve on nature, I often find some need for that. Therefore, if I occasionally have another reason to do it, possibly for parts of the shadows, I may not even notice anything new or unexpected.
If the depth of the shadows are impaired that is another matter but so far I am not looking for any improvement nor believe it possible in the kinds of picture I typically take.
Take a look at my fledgling site at http://contrajour.wordpress.com/ where so far I have four of my pictures. These are typical of my kind of work. I do not believe in any of them deeper blacks in the images would have made any improvement when printed on Hahnemühle Photo Rag, which I almost always use.
I am not into anything where the shadows are an issue even if possibly I could do better with them. I cannot see that happening partly for the fact that I print on matt paper because I like the more classical fine art feel that it gives even if the maximum blacks are adversely affected, which indeed they are a little. That fine art touch is what I strive for. I will never get to the standard of Ansel Adams if I live to be 100 - only 35 years left to go - but I will enjoy trying until I have to give up photography because I no longer have the strength to press the shutter release
No John4, you "did not suggest sales as the reason" but I am extrapolating on what you had first said. If Capture One keeps getting changed and authors cannot keep up with it, they are not even going to try unless the sales are high enough to warrant the investment of their time and effort. If the sales were appreciably higher, even with frequent small changes, I would expect to find at least one such book with updates occasionally by an independent author and since there is not even one (unless Amazon and all other online outlets have missed it) my conclusion is that the sales are not high enough for Phase One to handle everything successfully along with all the bugs, be they in the core product or the environmental baggage that users are liable to encounter. You only have to look at threads on those problems to see that there is something of an issue there and it is irrelevant whether it is entirely the fault of Phase One, no fault of theirs at all or something in between. The fact that a relatively small company where software is concerned keep moving the goalposts means that an own goal is going to be the result from time to time. Certainly, the same is true even with companies as large as Adobe but when it happens they can afford to fix it and they cannot afford not to pretty darn sharpish. If that were the same with Capture One, then how do you explain enough disgruntled users to be regularly surfacing in this Forum and me being one of them, the logic of looking for safer waters?
You may well have good reasons to want to capitalise on each small step for mankind and I would be foolish to criticise you for it. However, referring to what I said a little earlier to Paul 1921 in this entry, those improvements are not going to turn me into an Ansel Adams clone. Only improving skills might and that is all I am interested in.
Without accusing you of being one of them, IMHO there are a lot of misguided people out there. Have a look at the DP Review Forum, for example, and you will find people upgrading equipment and spending lots of money for no good reason. That certainly cannot be said of all of them but I cannot see why, for example, one professional wedding photographer who had two D300s and a D700 was talking about changing the former for two D300s's as soon as they were announced. If you want to take HD videos then get a video camera and any serious photographer who buys a DSLR for its video capabilities is out of his mind or constantly in need of retail therapy, probably also with more money than sense. To a lesser extent I apply the same kind of thinking to photographic software, unless producing good pictures is the last thing on one's mind.0
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