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catalog size

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27 Kommentare

  • dredlew
    [quote="NN635019274682096488UL" wrote:
    greetings...
    why can lightroom hold 100k or more images and the library shows same performance as if there were 5k images, but CO becomes unbearable at 40k. Is this characteristic of CO and any way to get around it other than having multiple catalogs? I really like being able to search all images.


    If you search the forum, you will find various posts on this topic. While a few have managed to run large libraries, it generally seems like C1 is not able to handle larger libraries (10k+) well. With the listed performance improvements in v10, I was hoping that the library size issue may have been addressed but apparently not. Then again, that "feature" probably would have been worth mentioning in the release notes but there is no such reference. So yeah, it seems unlikely that there has been an improvement in that area.

    Based on the reported issues of other users, I started out using C1 with multiple libraries to keep the size down. So far, I haven't had any library related issues like slow performance or catalog corruption that others experienced. I too, would prefer to have everything in one library but I'm afraid to go there yet until it has been confirmed that catalog size doesn't matter anymore.
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  • peter Frings
    If there was only 1 thing I was waiting for in v10 it would have been this. Alas...

    Maybe that's the difference between real pro's and us enthusiastic amateurs: we tend not to have "shoots", but a continuous stream of pictures. But then I wonder how the real pro's handle their "private" pictures? Wouldn't they like to have them in 1 catalog, just like we do? Or don't they have such pictures?

    I confess I'm looking for alternatives.

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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  • Erich Hartmann
    [quote="peter.f" wrote:
    If there was only 1 thing I was waiting for in v10 it would have been this. Alas...


    Oh no! WTF.

    This is literally one of the ONLY things they should have concentrated on. All the other stuff is nice…but a stable, quick, and intuitive management structure is a MUST FIX for C1P.

    This is very disheartening.

    EDIT: I have not yet DLd the trial for 10. But I will wait for a definitive verdict on catalog improvement before even giving it a try. I really really really hope these early reports are wrong 😎
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  • Emile Gregoire
    Is this confirmed or is it mere speculation? I too would like to know. Poor database performance was the one thing that hindered me in v9.

    As an event photographer, sessions are great, but after I've delivered all images to the client I prefer to put everything in one big catalogue to be searched later and serve as a base for immediate retouching or export upon demand. Right now I'm using Media Pro for asset management but find having to use two different programs (MP plus C1) to be suboptimal.

    edit: clarified the suboptimal part of using MP
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  • Robert Farhi
    It seems to me that Media Pro is a better DAM than the C1 catalog. So......
    But I have 17000 + referenced pictures and C1 catalog works well enough, as far as I am concerned.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    As a standalone DAM, Media Pro indeed leaves nothing to be desired. It's the back and forth between MP and C1 that is the suboptimal part. Sorry for the confusion!
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  • Marco M. Jaeger
    Same thing for me - a rather disappointing experience thus far - my catalog is about 80,000 pictures - while Apple Aperture opens the library in 4.5 secs, CaptureOne needs 33 secs just to open the catalog - I guess I stay with Apple Aperture as long as I can - didn't discover an glitches yet running it on macOS Sierra.
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  • paintbox
    Same here
    I was hoping, but same sluggish behavior.
    I just wished they had a "best practices" document.
    First time I tried to open my C19 in C10 it corrupted the database. Working from the backup.
    It just occurred to me that there is no "recover from backup" utility. So I'm fumbling my way through that.
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  • sky_guy
    I’m looking forward to hearing more on how C1P 10 is handling large catalogs. The reports of problems with large catalogs on C1P 9 was the only thing keeping me from fully crossing all of my work over to C1P. I am really hoping that v10 changes this.
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  • Stephan Aschemann
    I just have done a re-setup of my hardware setup. The release of v10 comes accidentally. Only because of the performance problems with v9 I went for the latest MacBook Pro 2016 with the biggest graphic card (460) and a WD MyBook pro (Thunderbolt 2) as external drive. This system is working very fine with the latest version of capture one pro. With a USB3 external drive it slows down despite the high end MacBook Pro.
    Regards
    Steve
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  • CaptureMann
    I've been trial-ing Capture One Pro as each new release comes out for over a year now.
    The poor DB feature set (ex: can't work with nested folders, etc.) and the performance and stability issues have kept me from buying the software. The rest of the feature set is GREAT!
    But the last time I downloaded V9 (9.3), it corrupted my library - all gone!

    Based on the comments here, I won't even bother downloading the trial of V10. Sounds like no improvements have been made to the DAM

    [color=#BF0000:6kt6acto]PhaseOne - if you're listening[/color:6kt6acto] - you can capture all the Aperture / Lightroom users on the Mac if you would just make a Database/DAM that actually works; and works with decent performance... Please?

    I'm ready to switch. I just need for it to work.

    Your truly,

    ...hopeful
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  • Ross Collins
    I've come to the sad conclusion that this is where the over-riding design objective to focus on support for the tiny proportion of photographers who are medium format users compromises a good deal more users of other equipment. For a medium format user, 50 images is often the product of a huge day's work, and a total image archive of no more than a few thousand images is the norm. However, for most photography enthusiasts, these volumes are utterly unrealistic and providing for these more typical users strangely is not a priority. It seems like I'll be checking in with Capture One again at v11, but I'm not confident things will have changed.
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  • paintbox
    Well C1-10 corrupted my backup as well.
    So now a complete re-import of images is in order. A couple of days MINIMUM of waiting.
    If I remember correctly, this is a rehash of the last "upgrade".
    Its getting old
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  • Robert Farhi
    [quote="Jimmy D Uptain" wrote:
    Well C1-10 corrupted my backup as well.
    So now a complete re-import of images is in order. A couple of days MINIMUM of waiting.
    If I remember correctly, this is a rehash of the last "upgrade".
    Its getting old


    Hi Jimmy,
    What is the size (number of files) of your catalog ?
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  • Peter Brockhausen
    I don't have any problems with updating from 9 to 10; sessions catalogs, it works.


    [quote="Jimmy D Uptain" wrote:
    Well C1-10 corrupted my backup as well.
    So now a complete re-import of images is in order. A couple of days MINIMUM of waiting.


    You should definitely think about your backup strategy!

    --peter
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  • paintbox
    [quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
    [quote="Jimmy D Uptain" wrote:
    Well C1-10 corrupted my backup as well.
    So now a complete re-import of images is in order. A couple of days MINIMUM of waiting.
    If I remember correctly, this is a rehash of the last "upgrade".
    Its getting old


    Hi Jimmy,
    What is the size (number of files) of your catalog ?


    41,535
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  • Robert Farhi
    Thanks Jimmy. I have "only" 17,000 + files, but I am a little bit reluctant about upgrading to v10 in these conditions.....
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  • paintbox
    [quote="Peter.Brockhausen" wrote:
    I don't have any problems with updating from 9 to 10; sessions catalogs, it works.


    [quote="Jimmy D Uptain" wrote:
    Well C1-10 corrupted my backup as well.
    So now a complete re-import of images is in order. A couple of days MINIMUM of waiting.


    You should definitely think about your backup strategy!

    --peter


    Did you miss the part where I said it corrupted my back ups as well?
    Every time I drag a backup DB into the file as per their instructions, it would corrupt it.
    All was fine until the upgrade.
    Started the new import at midnight last night. I'm now at 23,362 imported so far. The first 10,000 goes quickly, after that , it gets exponentially slower.
    Plus I will have to rebuild thumbnails, and create smart folders.
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  • paintbox
    Wanna make a correction.
    After digging around in all the backups, it occurred to me that no matter how far I went back, the same error would appear.
    Even opening the file with C19 would give the same error.
    I went as far as to use sqlite to repair the corrupted files, to no avail.
    So I poked around in the package contents again.I noticed that under the C1 Catalog DB, there were a bunch of folders labeled backup 1,2,3, etc. Since I really had nothing to lose, I deleted everything except for the database itself.

    I then closed it and retried opening my catalog. it opened just fine and it appears all my work was intact.

    Now I cannot say whether the folders were the culprit or the symptom of a corrupt database. But all is well for now.

    Here's a link on how to use sqlite to repair the database. Its aimed at the Lightroom db users but still works for C1 as they are both sqlite. Mac users be aware that there some extra steps that he does not mention but are mentioned in the comments.

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  • NN636274225804497206UL
    Not trying to be a contrarian to the bad news, but my C10 upgrade went smoothly and my 92k image catalog is notably quicker.I LOVE the new output sharpening and its preview option.

    I was suffering delays switching between the library tab and the editing tabs and other slowness but those are faster now. It's no Aperture, speedwise, and the initial load is awfully slow, but once loaded it's not as bad (slow) as it was.


    Things I'd like to see
    1) That said I'm trying to find a convenient way to split my catalog and there really isn't one except to clone your large catalog into multiple copies then delete image references in each to end up with 3 (or more) catalogs that add up to the original. It's an awful pain in the you-know-what.

    2) Allow me to put the "cache" folder within the library package somewhere else, like on another drive. Right now I can't see a way to put the cache on an alternative disk. Actually, I can't manage the cache in any way. The cache (within the catalog package) is now 146GB for me for 92k images and I don't see any options to manage it or move it or reduce it in size for older projects/folders. My advice would be to separate the cache from the package and allow it to be moved around. Also add some tools to help manage it, split, manage the previews, etc.

    Overall, I'm a C1 fan, but I think like others that the catalog is an area for improvement.
    Regards,
    PG
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  • Narq
    I have a Capture One 10 catalog with 102,000 images in it. How quickly it starts up depends on how I left it. One of the workarounds I use is, before I close Capture One, to select a Recent Import with around 100 images, which speeds things up on start up considerablly. After that, I can skip to a particular Album or folder and work on images offline, which is the main reason I'm using catalogs in the first place. With "All Images" selected in the library, an initial load takes 25 - 30 minutes to start (from an internal SSD), and regularly uses > 32GB Ram (22GB Compressed) on a system with 16GB physical RAM. Selecting All Images after starting with a small Recent Import takes around 20 minutes, so I avoid it if I possibly can.

    For day to day image processing, I use a single session and navigate to my the folder I need which works it's fine, but I'm sorry to say Catalogues are broken for me, and from looking at these forums, for most other users with larger catalogs. I should say that in Lightroom, my Catalog had everything I'd shot from 2008 - 2014, which was over 200,000 images, and on a hard drive based laptop with 4GB of RAM, had no problems.
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  • paintbox
    [quote="Narq" wrote:
    I have a Capture One 10 catalog with 102,000 images in it. How quickly it starts up depends on how I left it. One of the workarounds I use is, before I close Capture One, to select a Recent Import with around 100 images, which speeds things up on start up considerablly. After that, I can skip to a particular Album or folder and work on images offline, which is the main reason I'm using catalogs in the first place. With "All Images" selected in the library, an initial load takes 25 - 30 minutes to start (from an internal SSD), and regularly uses > 32GB Ram (22GB Compressed) on a system with 16GB physical RAM. Selecting All Images after starting with a small Recent Import takes around 20 minutes, so I avoid it if I possibly can.

    For day to day image processing, I use a single session and navigate to my the folder I need which works it's fine, but I'm sorry to say Catalogues are broken for me, and from looking at these forums, for most other users with larger catalogs. I should say that in Lightroom, my Catalog had everything I'd shot from 2008 - 2014, which was over 200,000 images, and on a hard drive based laptop with 4GB of RAM, had no problems.


    Your method mirrors mine. Except may I suggest removing the filters tool. This made a substantial improvement in my catalog, and can be put back if the need arises.
    I can say this latest iteration offers a small improvement (catalog wise), but still not on par with LR or Media Pro.
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  • peter Frings
    @ CorsairVelo — You can select a folder in the library and choose "Export as catalog" from the File menu. This creates a catalog containing only the library structure of that folder and the images inside that folder. Works like a charm with referenced images.

    @ all — <sorry, rant coming up. stop here if you're not interested. People from Phase One, you can kick me of the forum if you want>
    There is no denying that larger catalogs are a no-no with C1. 25 minutes to show 100K images, using 32+GB of memory? Is that acceptable for anyone out there? This might be considered quick on an Mac from 1984, but not on a recent machine. Now, you could be careful and avoid hitting that "All images" entry. But one of the benefits of having a large catalog is the ability to search for an image, right?. How do you normally search for an image? Right, you start by selecting "All images"...

    You might try to avoid that by creating a smart filter to do your query, but because the filter is live, you must be very careful to construct a query that doesn't match lots of images. Heck, even on a small catalog of 4000 images, making a smart filter that searches for "containing a" brings up the spinning wheel for at least 20 seconds. Granted, I have an older mac, but WTF?

    Also, have you tried adding or editing keywords on many images (many = more than 50)?

    Now, I'll probably stick with C1 for a while because I really like its processing and modeless editing approach. Many, many kudos for that!

    But be honest, this kind of catalog performance doesn't suit a company that makes software for professionals, not to mention the total lack of acknowledgement, let alone corrective actions. I agree, resources and time are limited and they must set priorities. But, how many of you have an Eizo monitor and were waiting for the ability to the calibrate it from within C1? How many of you have a Tangent system? Major features, hey? Oh yes, you can filter on landscape/portrait mode. Useful, I agree. In version 10?

    Sorry for the rant and sarcasm. You will have heard it before from me, and you will probably hear it again. That's not because I like to rant; it's because I like C1 a *lot* and I want it to be the *best post-processing software there is!* I rant because I care. I will try to help people as much as I can using C1, and I will tell everyone that asks that I use C1 instead of LR. But if they ask whether they can convert their LR or Aperture catalog, I must answer "no, you can't". That's a sad thing to say.

    OK, enough for now. If you've read this far, thanks for putting up with me!

    Cheers,
    Peter.
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  • Ross Collins
    [quote="peter.f" wrote:
    There is no denying that larger catalogs are a no-no with C1. 25 minutes to show 100K images, using 32+GB of memory? Is that acceptable for anyone out there?

    No, not to me.

    My LR catalogue containing >250,000 images opens in around 8-10 seconds, which is plenty long enough, but perfectly acceptable. What is a C1 user supposed to do during those 25 minutes or more - make and eat breakfast and read the morning paper?

    When I start up my post-production apps, it's because I want to use them now! Is that unreasonable?
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  • dredlew
    [quote="Narq" wrote:
    I have a Capture One 10 catalog with 102,000 images in it.


    Starting to read your post, I was like; "hmm, someone actually did manage to have that many images in a catalog, maybe I should try it", but then read further...

    [quote="Narq" wrote:
    With "All Images" selected in the library, an initial load takes 25 - 30 minutes to start (from an internal SSD), and regularly uses > 32GB Ram (22GB Compressed) on a system with 16GB physical RAM. Selecting All Images after starting with a small Recent Import takes around 20 minutes, so I avoid it if I possibly can.


    ... aaaand I think I would jump out the window. Nope, one catalog not happening for me. No, thank you.
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  • cs
    I have 151K images in the catalog I'm currently working on ... organized in groups of 10K raw images per library album. I just purchased the upgrade yesterday, made sure to make backups and so far notice no difference in the program at all. I organize each shoot into a user collection, and am a little frustrated with the time it takes to for the images come up when selecting a specific collection, but tolerate it. Every few months I create a new catalog. My primary complaint is that as I move older catalogs to a different hard drive, and use the locate command to update the physical location for the catalog images, find the locate command is almost unbearable slow. Each library album of 10K images takes 10's of minutes, sometimes 1/2 an hour to update, with capture one being unusable while the locate is updating. Given 15 10K albums in some catalogs, this can really cut into a day.

    One thing that helps to some degree (I think) is that I've dedicated a 500G solid state drive to store all of my catalogs, only archiving the oldest catalogs to other spinning hard drives.

    There is probably a better way to organize my image collections, but I need to read more to truly understand alternatives, but my current method works for me.
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  • Henrik Lorenzen
    [quote="CaptureMann" wrote:
    I've been trial-ing Capture One Pro as each new release comes out for over a year now.
    The poor DB feature set (ex: can't work with nested folders, etc.) and the performance and stability issues have kept me from buying the software. The rest of the feature set is GREAT!
    But the last time I downloaded V9 (9.3), it corrupted my library - all gone!

    Based on the comments here, I won't even bother downloading the trial of V10. Sounds like no improvements have been made to the DAM

    [color=#BF0000:1bjeypwd]PhaseOne - if you're listening[/color:1bjeypwd] - you can capture all the Aperture / Lightroom users on the Mac if you would just make a Database/DAM that actually works; and works with decent performance... Please?

    I'm ready to switch. I just need for it to work.

    Your truly,

    ...hopeful

    The best thing that they could do was to get the database from Aperture with CO1 Raw well then Adobe could close down for good
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