sRGB export over saturated
I'm getting some weird results on my sRGB exports.
I have two BenQ monitors. SW271 and SW270C. Both are calibrated utilizing 16 bit LUT and v2 in the sRGB color space.
I'm finding my exports into sRGB jpeg are over saturated when viewing in multiple viewers such as Irfanview, FastRawViewer, Google and Chrome.
So I took a RAW file unedited and exported it from both Capture One and Light-room. The exported jpeg was from Capture One was over saturated where as the one from Light-room was not.
I took a step further and exported out of On1 Photo Raw and ended up with a over saturated jpeg as well. I own Capture One and trying to make it my go too.
I have two BenQ monitors. SW271 and SW270C. Both are calibrated utilizing 16 bit LUT and v2 in the sRGB color space.
I'm finding my exports into sRGB jpeg are over saturated when viewing in multiple viewers such as Irfanview, FastRawViewer, Google and Chrome.
So I took a RAW file unedited and exported it from both Capture One and Light-room. The exported jpeg was from Capture One was over saturated where as the one from Light-room was not.
I took a step further and exported out of On1 Photo Raw and ended up with a over saturated jpeg as well. I own Capture One and trying to make it my go too.
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Why are you calibrating it in the sRGB color space and not AdobeRGB or native? Perhaps that's the reason why it looks so over-saturated? 0 -
[quote="C-M-B" wrote:
Why are you calibrating it in the sRGB color space and not AdobeRGB or native? Perhaps that's the reason why it looks so over-saturated?
My main target audience is the web which uses sRGB. If I calibrate other than sRGB, I can expect my colors to be off, when viewing under the sRGB profile.0 -
I don't think that's how it works.
You're just putting an artificial limitation of your screen.
the web does not use sRGB, it just displays the image with its color space. AdobeRGB works too and many displays are able to display more than 100% sRGB.
Try setting your display to its native color space or adobeRGB and see if that changes anything.0 -
A few links to some reading. You can calibrate and export to Adobe RGB, but when you view on the web, it's going to be converted down to sRGB. From everything I've read, this is my understanding.
I was able to resolve my issue by calibrating my profiles, v2 and matrix. Evidently, Capture One, On1, Affinity Photo and a few other apps, have issues with icc profiles utilizing 16-bit LUT. At least for the sRGB color space.
Since my main media is the web and it utilizes sRGB. I calibrate sRGB, so what I see in the editor is close as possible to what's exported and posted on the web.
Thank you0 -
[quote="NNN636873132526897640" wrote:
[quote="C-M-B" wrote:
Why are you calibrating it in the sRGB color space and not AdobeRGB or native? Perhaps that's the reason why it looks so over-saturated?
My main target audience is the web which uses sRGB. If I calibrate other than sRGB, I can expect my colors to be off, when viewing under the sRGB profile.
You've got some confusion here. The purpose of calibration and profiling is to bring your monitor to a specific condition and have a file that describes its color properties, so every app that is able to manage color profiles will let you see your images as close as possible as they are. So you don't need to calibrate to sRGB (which honestly I'm not sure to understand what you mean or what you're doing). You need to let your colorimeter check your monitor colors and the app create the profile that describes them so you will see any color profile image "correctly" (it depends...) through a proper color conversion. That's what calibration is made for. I have a wide gamut monitor. Without my monitor profile I would see oversaturated sRGB images, but Adobe RGB ones would appear "ok". But I've created a color profile for my monitor so I don't mind the color space of the images as long as I'm viewing them in a color-managed photo viewer. It's a common rule to export images in sRGB for the web because that would just avoid most of the problems of most uncalibrated devices (that's not the case for wide gamut monitor, for example) but you will never ever ever ever know exactly how other people will see them. So you need to export images in sRGB, not calibrate your monitor to sRGB. If you calibrate it properly you will see sRGB images displayed in their color space 'cause the viewer will match it to your gamut (as much as they overlap each other) and do the conversion.0 -
[quote="ClauS" wrote:
[quote="NNN636873132526897640" wrote:
[quote="C-M-B" wrote:
Why are you calibrating it in the sRGB color space and not AdobeRGB or native? Perhaps that's the reason why it looks so over-saturated?
My main target audience is the web which uses sRGB. If I calibrate other than sRGB, I can expect my colors to be off, when viewing under the sRGB profile.
You've got some confusion here. The purpose of calibration and profiling is to bring your monitor to a specific condition and have a file that describes its color properties, so every app that is able to manage color profiles will let you see your images as close as possible as they are. So you don't need to calibrate to sRGB (which honestly I'm not sure to understand what you mean or what you're doing). You need to let your colorimeter check your monitor colors and the app create the profile that describes them so you will see any color profile image "correctly" (it depends...) through a proper color conversion. That's what calibration is made for. I have a wide gamut monitor. Without my monitor profile I would see oversaturated sRGB images, but Adobe RGB ones would appear "ok". But I've created a color profile for my monitor so I don't mind the color space of the images as long as I'm viewing them in a color-managed photo viewer. It's a common rule to export images in sRGB for the web because that would just avoid most of the problems of most uncalibrated devices (that's not the case for wide gamut monitor, for example) but you will never ever ever ever know exactly how other people will see them. So you need to export images in sRGB, not calibrate your monitor to sRGB. If you calibrate it properly you will see sRGB images displayed in their color space 'cause the viewer will match it to your gamut (as much as they overlap each other) and do the conversion.
What you're describing is editing in the widest gamut possible for the monitor, in this case Adobe RGB. Then exporting out to sRGB. Use a viewer to view the photo in the sRGB profile. Make adjustments in Capture One as necessary and repeat until I'm satisfied with the sRGB (JPEG) output
Capture One is going to use the widest gaumet possible, so how do I have Capture One display the photo as it would appear through a web browser. Eliminating going between editor and viewer.
Next both my BenQ monitors allow me to calibrate to a specific color space. sRGB, Adobe RGB, DC3, etc. I'm assume that's there for a reason.
I guess I am confused. If I'm working in a primary sRGB color space. I would assume that I would want every thing across the board to be SRGB, to eliminate any color matching issues.0 -
[quote="NNN636873132526897640" wrote:
What you're describing is editing in the widest gamut possible for the monitor, in this case Adobe RGB. Then exporting out to sRGB. Use a viewer to view the photo in the sRGB profile. Make adjustments in Capture One as necessary and repeat until I'm satisfied with the sRGB (JPEG) output
Capture One is going to use the widest gaumet possible, so how do I have Capture One display the photo as it would appear through a web browser. Eliminating going between editor and viewer.
Next both my BenQ monitors allow me to calibrate to a specific color space. sRGB, Adobe RGB, DC3, etc. I'm assume that's there for a reason.
I guess I am confused. If I'm working in a primary sRGB color space. I would assume that I would want every thing across the board to be SRGB, to eliminate any color matching issues.
No. What I'm describing is what color profiles are meant for, regardless what you do with them. I don't change my calibration and profile if, for example, I need to edit an sRGB image in Photoshop in the same space. PS is color managed so, knowing my monitor profile, will show me the image in its own color space and use it as working color space.
Regarding Capture One, you can choose your proofing color space in View ---> Proof profile. You can otherwise set your recipe to export to sRGB and enable "View ---> Enable recipe profile" (or toggle the spectacles icon in the tool bar) which will also resize the image according to the output size set in basic tab of process recipe and apply output sharpening too, if set. I would use this option just to preview the output image and refine it for output, not to work on it.0 -
[quote="ClauS" wrote:
No. What I'm describing is what color profiles are meant for, regardless what you do with them. I don't change my calibration and profile if, for example, I need to edit an sRGB image in Photoshop in the same space. PS is color managed so, knowing my monitor profile, will show me the image in its own color space and use it as working color space.
Regarding Capture One, you can choose your proofing color space in View ---> Proof profile. You can otherwise set your recipe to export to sRGB and enable "View ---> Enable recipe profile" (or toggle the spectacles icon in the tool bar) which will also resize the image according to the output size set in basic tab of process recipe and apply output sharpening too, if set. I would use this option just to preview the output image and refine it for output, not to work on it.
This makes sense, and is exactly what I've tried to do, but soft proofing with sRGB profile doesn't change the image at all, even though they definitely change when exporting to JPG. Any ideas?0 -
[quote="NNN636178173677592474" wrote:
This makes sense, and is exactly what I've tried to do, but soft proofing with sRGB profile doesn't change the image at all, even though they definitely change when exporting to JPG. Any ideas?
In the other topic you said that your monitors are calibrated to Adobe RGB (so I think you're saying they're wide gamut). sRGB is smaller than Adobe RGB and completely fits inside of this as Grant (SFA) tried to let you understand with his link. I don't know what kind (or degree) of change you are expecting in soft proof. Using a wider color space does not mean that the colors of your image have to reach the extremes, so probably they already fit inside sRGB if you don't see a change. You should exceed sRGB saturation to go out of gamut and see a compression from aRGB to sRGB but what will happen to out of gamut colors (and how the image will change) is related to the rendering intent. Soft proof is made to simulate the result of a color profile change, but color profiles and color chain exist to preserve colors, not to see them change. If the processed jpg doesn't match what you see in Capture One may be because you are viewing it in a non color managed viewer. Which are you using?0 -
[quote="ClauS" wrote:
[quote="NNN636178173677592474" wrote:
This makes sense, and is exactly what I've tried to do, but soft proofing with sRGB profile doesn't change the image at all, even though they definitely change when exporting to JPG. Any ideas?
In the other topic you said that your monitors are calibrated to Adobe RGB (so I think you're saying they're wide gamut). sRGB is smaller than Adobe RGB and completely fits inside of this as Grant (SFA) tried to let you understand with his link. I don't know what kind (or degree) of change you are expecting in soft proof. Using a wider color space does not mean that the colors of your image have to reach the extremes, so probably they already fit inside sRGB if you don't see a change. You should exceed sRGB saturation to go out of gamut and see a compression from aRGB to sRGB but what will happen to out of gamut colors (and how the image will change) is related to the rendering intent. Soft proof is made to simulate the result of a color profile change, but color profiles and color chain exist to preserve colors, not to see them change. If the processed jpg doesn't match what you see in Capture One may be because you are viewing it in a non color managed viewer. Which are you using?
As ClauS has pointed out the sRGB colour space commnnly used by widely employed terminals and most web browsers is a smaller colour space (marginally in some colours) than AdobeRGB. So little or no change would be expected although you might see some subtle differences if viewing at 100% and looking at an image with a wide range of colours well represented.
Go the other way round - for example try to print an AdobeRGB image in an sRGB colour space and some colours can look very unpleasant.
If colour changes are likely to be subtle - for whatever reason - then viewing at 100% rather than any compressed ration where processing will be compromising the available data by compression (assisted by our eyes) is very important.
HTH.
Grant0
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