Capture One 20 Load Time on Mac
Having just finished migrating an 80,000 photo Lightroom library to Capture One, I am shocked to find that the program is taking more than 20 seconds just to get started! This compared with about 4 seconds for Lightroom. I found a post from technical support five years ago suggesting that they were working on it but in the meantime to make sure that the user selects a small folder before quitting. I tried that, did not work. Is this normal? I am running a fairly powerful Mac.
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I noticed as well that launching CO takes more time than with
previous versions… and my machine has good muscles too.0 -
Hi Fred,
Yes, Capture One takes some time before opening, especially with large catalogues. But I launch it just once a day.
I am very interested in the management of your huge (for Capture One) catalogue. Is it managed (i.e. your images are in the same folder as the catalogue) or referenced (i.e. your images are on a different location) ? Does it work well ? Usually, people begin to having issues with such large catalogues, whereas this is not the case for Lightroom. But for all other things, Capture One is far better.
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ADDENDUM
I only work in sessions… so my comment may be out of place.0 -
On my system (2019 iMac 5K) launching when using a Catalog takes longer than launching using a Session. That said, my Catalog currently contains about 45,000 images where my largest session contains about 4,500 images. Perhaps if I had a session as large as my catalog launch times would be similar.
Both catalog and session db files are on my internal SSD. Images are on a USB-C connected SSD.
My solution to the issue is to launch and change catalog/sessions as few as times possible during the day. I can do that as a hobby photographer. If I was a professional I'd imagine the waiting times would drive be bonkers.
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@ Marco Hyman
— "My solution to the issue is to launch and change catalog/sessions
as few as times possible during the day."
Working mainly in the publishing industry, when I am at the screen, I
have to all around my archives every day. I seem to have the same
iMac than you do and I don't experience the same difficulties. Does it
have to do with the OS (Mojave)?0 -
I think it is related to the number of images. How big are your sessions? As I wrote my largest session is about 4500 images (my "session favorites" list about 65 different folders). Switching to that session takes about 5 seconds. Switching to an empty session takes about 3 seconds, maybe less. Switching to my catalog takes closer to 30 seconds.
Those numbers are not all that different from when I was running Mojave.
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Mine are max 800 heavy… that could be it!
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Data from my late 2015 21.5in iMac with factory upgrade to 16BG RAM and non-standard 1TB SSD. My main workng library of around 5,000 images is on the SSD and my legacy library of around 40,000 is on a 2 TB external SSD. Both are referenced libraries.
I moved from CaptureOne to LightRoom about a year ago when I was using Photoshop a lot and the monthly cost of LR+PS made CaptureOne's cost look stupid. Since the introduction of the body-specific version (I shoot Nikon) the cost difference is not significant and I've gone back to C1. I don't have stopwatch data for LR but it certainy has not struck me that there is any significant difference in speed between what it was in LR and is in CaptureOne 20.
Logging to the main library from a cold start is arounf 35s including boot time. Logging to it when the iMac is fully booted is around 4s. Logging to the library on the external drive from the booted iMac is around 10 to 15s but moving within the library is near enough instantaneous.
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Thanks for all of the replies. It's nice to see a community with some activity.
I am in the process of splitting my Lightroom Catalog into several smaller ones. As planned my two main catalogs will be of about 20,000 and 40,000 images. I'll see what that does for my load times.
@billtils: what is it about Capture One that brought you back from Lightroom?
Can anyone help me with this: every time that I log in to the site it forgets my name and instead calls me FirstName LastName. I dutifully change it, but it is not remembered.
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Another reason Capture One takes so long to load may be that it connects to the following domains during launch:
cloudfront.net
getdrip.com
google.com
google-analytics.com
googleapis.com
googletagmanager.com
hotjar.com
onfastspring.com
phaseone.com
typography.com
ub-analytics.com
ubembed.com
zdassets.com
zendesk.com
zopim.com
appcenter.ms
doubleclick.net
captureone.proI was really surprised (and disappointed) to see all of these connections being made. I think doubleclick is evil and I can't imagine why the Capture One app needs to connect to it.
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Wow! That is surprising. And, as you stated, disappointing. I can see the connection to captureone.pro and maybe a connection to phaseone.com. But the others?
I wonder if the Capture One developers are even cognizant of all the sites Capture One is connecting or if they are using third party libraries that are making the connections?
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So my 22,000 image catalog load in about a third the time that my 80,000 one does. I was actually underestimating how long it takes. When I put a stopwatch to it the load times are 15 and 45 seconds. Lightroom load the 80,000 image library in 6 seconds. Capture One devs should be ashamed. BTW tested @Dave's theory, and starting Capture One with no internet connection takes just as long.
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Hi Fred. I have just purchased Capture One Pro and have experienced the same problem as you with load times. I have around the same number of images as you. On my system, LR loaded them in 11 seconds and I am disappointed that C1 takes soooooo long (43 seconds) to start up. :-(
BTW, When C1 imported my LR Catalogue, it marked ALL 90k images as having 'Adjustments' when the majority did not. Did you experience the same problem?
Cheers.
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Hello Peter. Yes, it did. Well that indicator is certainly worthless now. The manual talks about being able to see all of the adjustments made in an "Adjustments Clipboard", but I cannot find a way to see that clipboard.
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Yes I was hoping that the images with Adjustments would be easily identified by the little icon but, as you say, after the import, it is a totally useless notification unfortunately.
On the subject of response times, have you selected 'Library > Catalog Collections > All Images' in C1?
My copy of Lightroom loaded all 90k and became responsive in about 10 sec. C1 just seems to freeze completely and just shows the spinning beach ball for minutes before responding then repeats this delay after every action I make. Hopefully it will improve after ingesting the data from all my images.
I don't know if this might be of interest but I have found that C1 is great for adjusting images but for metadata input/management and organising in Catalogues, I have found ACDSee Photo Studio leaves C1 for dead....
Have decided to use ACDsee for managing my images and C1 to do the image adjustments..
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@Fred Tensen
Before responding it is probably only fair to say that I'm sure one factor is familiarity - I had more than 5 years experience with C1 and less than one year with LR.
However,the main reasons are: I can do things in CaptureOne that need to round-trip to PS from LR, such as luminosity masking (a tool I use a lot). I find the crop tool in LR falls well short of that in C1 and given it's such a basic tool ... it doesn't tell you the size of your crop in pixels and won't let you set your own default.
As far as the discussion on catalog size and speed goes, when you open LR you are essentially opening the equivalent of a session in C1 not a full catalog of say 80K images. If that aspect of LR matters then use sessions insread of catalogs in C1 or use small catalogs, for example 1 per month.
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@Peter
yes after Capture One finishes building previews it becomes more responsive. It took 15 hours for it to do that on my large catalog.
I have in the past contemplated using one program for DAM and another for making adjustments but gave up on that. So how will you do that with ACDsee? Can you get away with the "home" version of it for that purpose?
@illtils
The main reason I am going through the labor of learning how to use this very complex program is layers, and most specifically the luminosity layer. I watched a video tutorial that a photographer created showing how to use it to mimic Lightroom's haze adjustment and was truly amazed.
As for small catalogs, for me they break the DAM aspect of being able to find photos quickly. I could see a professional photographer being able to do that, but form keeping all of my family and travel photos together is important.
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@Fred
Finding photos in C1 is easy! Simply tag them with the appropriste keyword(s) then search "all Images" for the one(s) you want. You can also create a Smart Album that will contain everythng with the speficied keyword(s) - "contain" is used loosely as the images themselves are not there, only the links to get to them.
The sessions or small catalogs concept was posted as a response to those cncerned about the load-time of .large catalogs. However, a smart album gets round that.
Out of interest, s your newly created C1 album managed or referenced?
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Guys, my first post here. I'm a light amateur user. I, too, found load time (and size of catalog) underwhelming. Here are my numbers on my 2019 16" MacBook Pro (16GB ram, 2.6Ghz i7, all operations done in internal SSD):
- loading a 15,000 image catalog: 8.5 sec
- loading a 1,500 image catalog: 4.5-5 sec
- Turing off wifi: no effect on load time
- loading catalog after the app has started: cuts 1-2 sec off load time.
I used to have everything in a large catalog, but now work on the smaller 1,500 image catalog instead. I recently switched to Fujifilm X-T4 and C1 consistently gives me better image rendering than Lightroom. And, like @Fred mentioned, the ability to use layer to do color selection and local adjustments is waaay superior.
My other complaint is that image preview in C1 is too slow. It seems to re-render each image all the time, so there's often a slight delay before the image snaps into sharp display.
The real speed demon is actually Apple Photos. It takes just 1 second to load a 20,000 image catalog (on an 2019 iMac). Everything moves smoothly. Amazingly, you can search for things without tagging images with some basic keywords. For example, car, flower, cat. It's great for finding 'example' images rather than any specific images.
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@Fred
I sent a note to the support people re the 'Adjusted' icon on every image imported from LR and thought you might be interested to see their response.
Jack (Capture One)
Sep 17, 2020, 12:35 GMT+2
Hi Peter,
There's no way of fixing this - the images are effectively adjusted when they are imported into the Capture One catalog, as new ICC profiles, lens profiles etc. are applied and therefore the images have been adjusted - even if it is to optimise their look in Capture One.
However, I can see how this would be misleading and confusing, especially when keeping track of original images.
I have reported this to R&D as something to look into in a future release.
Kind regards,
Jack
Technical Support Lead, Capture One
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@Fred
Re using ACDSee as a DAM.
My break with Adobe LR is because of the subscription only models that have adopted for their products and I refuse to have to pay them forever to access MY media.I am not a professional photographer just a very keen amateur and, like you, my photos (and video) are mostly from my travels and family occasions during the past 50 years. I do make Collections (LR&C1)/Categories (ACDSee) for major events or trips, but to find a random image, I rely on being able to search the entire photo database. Once ACDSee has collected the metadata from all media it is quite good (and quick) at finding things although not as good as LR.
ACDSee has a MAJOR benefit for me in that it is the only app I have found in many, many years of searching that has a fantastic 'List' view which is infinitely better at managing metadata than a single metadata panel for each image. The 'List' view is customisable and can display anything you choose from EXIF, Maker Notes, IPTC Core, IPTC Extension fields and is way more useful than the meagre 9 (fixed) fields offered by C1. From what I can see so far, C1 & ACDSee can read and update each others metadata changes.
I use the IPTC data fields for information because they are ubiquitous and can be accessed by most media managers instead of keywords often which seem to be app specific. Also the IPTC data is safely stored inside the images and not in an app specific database.
From my limited use so far,C1 seems to be MUCH, MUCH better than ACDSee at image manipulation. So my solution is to use ACDSee for DAM and C1 for image adjustments.
BTW there is only one ACDSee product for the Mac, Photo Studio for Mac 6 which I have been using alongside LR since 2011. There is a free trial available so might be worth while you giving it a whirl.
Cheers.
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@Fred
Hi Fred,
Think I have found a solution (although a bit tedious) to fix the problem of C1 marking every LR imported image as 'Adjusted'.
In LR, I created a Smart Collection of media that had 'Develop > Edits' ('Edits' = 'Adjustments' + 'Cropped' from what I can see)
The resulting images were given a colour label (purple in my case, after ensuring that no other images in the LR Catalogue were purple) which transfers through to C1 if you have the C1 'Preferences > Image > Metadata' set to 'Full Sync'.
I then went through each folder in the C1 Folder list, removed the 'non-Purple'images from the Catalogue and emptied the C1 Trash < this is important.
Then, when r-clicking on each folder and selecting 'Synchronise...', C1 imports all the non-LR edited images WITHOUT marking them as 'Adjusted'.
The 'Adjusted' symbol now becomes a useful feature.
Hope this helps. :-)
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Thanks Peter. Yes, tedious, but maybe worth it. That's a very clever solution. Now, would you please find a solution to the slow program load time!
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;-) Yes I'm working on that......
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Great! I look forward to your solution.
On the "Adjusted" problem, I gave it a try. I couldn't follow you were doing with 'Develop > Edits' ('Edits' = 'Adjustments' + 'Cropped'. I don't see anything in filtering related to crop. I took the approach that anything that has a keyword, star rating, or color label has been worked on and got rid of everything else. It worked very well but took a while. Rather than go folder by folder I just worked from the "All Images" view. Thanks again.
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