v22 keywords changing randomly on RAW and TIFF files
I couldn't find this topic discussed recently, so I started a new one:
Imported about 900 files and added keywords immediately. Then I edited down to a few dozen and processed those, adding star ratings as I worked. So far, so good.
After round-tripping the best images to Silver Efex Pro, I added the keyword "monotone" to the TIFF files after bringing them back to C1 and changed the star rating on just those TIFFs. Then the problems begin....
Suddenly and completely randomly, the Sony RAW files that have been round-tripped and the resultant TIFFs will adopt star ratings and keywords assigned to other files in these two groups. Some of the RAW files will pick up the "monotone" keyword and some of them will adopt a 5-star rating. When I reset them to the 4-star rating, or delete the "monotone" keyword, they will reacquire them when I click on the file to display it in the Viewer window. If I then delete the 5-star rating, some of the files will randomly lose the "monotone" keyword as well. It's maddening because it makes no sense at all. I can barely describe what's happening.
I've tried to create and use a completely new keyword and assign it in place of the "monotone" keyword, but the same thing happens. NONE of the files that were assigned keywords at import are effected; they retain all the keywords assigned in the beginning.
If anyone has had this issue and figured out a fix, or if you think you know what's going on, please share!
I'm running the most current version of C1 '22 (build 15.0.0.192), but this happened in the prior version, too. Since it seems to be a shared issue between v21 and now, I suspect it's my C1 database or the computer, but figured I'd ask anyway.
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So I've figured out it's not a keyword issue (although the keywords are definitely affected). I deleted ALL the keywords from every image in the C1 folder, but kept the star ratings. Lo and behold, after quitting and restarting the app, all of the matched RAW/TIFF pairs went crazy. The 4-star RAW files adopted the 5-star ratings of their matched TIFF image files. All I did was relaunch the app and this happened without any further interaction from me. Interestingly, the lone pair that did not show a 5-star rating after this fiasco was a pair in which the TIFF file was rated 4 stars (on that image, I created 2 TIFFs, one before and one after making some small changes to the RAW edit; the second TIFF was rated 5 stars and did retain that rating).
Confused yet?
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Solved. Sort of.
When C1 '22 creates a TIFF for a round-trip to any external program, it does NOT append the filename in any way. Basically, it creates another file with the exact same name in the computer's directory, changing only the extension. Unfortunately, the XMP sidecar files for each image do not recognize these two files as separate and distinct, so whenever C1 updates the XMP for the RAW file, those changes are also read as changes to the TIFF file's data.
I checked an older folder of C1 images and previous versions used to append a number to the end of the filename when the app created a new image for round-tripping to an external app. WHY WAS THIS BEHAVIOR CHANGED????? Someone HAD TO KNOW this would be a problem!
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Wonderful sleuthing. I rarely sync metadata changes to XMP sidecar files, trusting (perhaps foolishly) the capture one catalog. It doesn't seem to be an issue using Sessions (without XMP files), either, as the image .cos file includes the extension so foo.dng.cos and foo.tif.cos don't collide.
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Wonderful sleuthing. I rarely sync metadata changes to XMP sidecar files, trusting (perhaps foolishly) the capture one catalog. It doesn't seem to be an issue using Sessions (without XMP files), either, as the image .cos file includes the extension so foo.dng.cos and foo.tif.cos don't collide.
I started using XMP files when I was trying out two different editing apps at the same time and they would each create separate sidecar files in their own format. I wanted to MAKE SURE they didn't screw with the other's files.
I've submitted a "feature request" to have the old behavior reinstated.
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Maybe it could become a toggle in prefs, so we'd "…cake & eat it too…" could be a nice treat.
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I checked an older folder of C1 images and previous versions used to append a number to the end of the filename when the app created a new image for round-tripping to an external app.
In v20, the first "Edit with" creates a tif with the same name as the raw (rawname.tif), the second "Edit with" appends _1 (rawname_1.tif) with a separate xmp file, because rawname.tif already exists. I don't think this has been different in prior versions, has it?
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In v20, the first "Edit with" creates a tif with the same name as the raw (rawname.tif), the second "Edit with" appends _1 (rawname_1.tif) with a separate xmp file, because rawname.tif already exists. I don't think this has been different in prior versions, has it?
When I checked my most recent files edited with a prior version ('21), all the TIFF files created for the round trip to Silver Efex do have a number appended to the end of the filename. Those were added by the software. The same is true for all previous versions, to my knowledge.
I've never had to manually append anything until the current version ('22). And I'll reiterate that I need to append something to the filename so the XMP sidecar files do not get confused by two or more identically-named photo files.
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More "under the hood" sleuthing:
If I create a New Variant and then append any new keywords or star ratings to that new variant, Capture One does not include that new information in the XMP sidecar file. However, if I assign a new keyword to the original image (not a variant), it does change the XMP file.
So, any new metadata you assign to the variant is handled by the software in the database, not in sidecar files.
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When I checked my most recent files edited with a prior version ('21), all the TIFF files created for the round trip to Silver Efex do have a number appended to the end of the filename. Those were added by the software. The same is true for all previous versions, to my knowledge.
Maybe it works differently for Silver Efex (is this a plugin?). I tested for the "Edit with" function with Affinity Photo application.
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Maybe it works differently for Silver Efex (is this a plugin?). I tested for the "Edit with" function with Affinity Photo application.
Silver Efex, in this case, is a used as a standalone app (although it has also been a plug-in for other image editing apps). I can't see how or why C1 would differentiate between external apps when creating files for round trip editing. And if it does, that's just stupid.
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I only can tell how C1 13.1.3 works with external apps on my machine (adding to the sleuthing), which is btw. the Windows version.
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