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Reasons to stay with C1 Pro?

Kommentare

23 Kommentare

  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    When you say "you" you do realise, do you, that you are primarily addressing other users of Capture One, not the Capture One management?

    And it's your choice of course, but if you can afford an IQ180 and XF body, I would imagine that the cost of the software would be a minor part of your budget. I'd suggest that your choice ought to be based on which software truly produces the results you like best. (Also I'd comment that using one raw converter for some cameras and a different one for others might be less efficient and more confusing, but that's also up to you.)

    Ian

    3
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Wrong Keith, I care.

    Chris' and other's posts show me that I'm not the only one who is distracted by the company's attitude towards perpetual licence customers.

    3
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Very good summary John.

    I'd like to add that the brand-specific versions, when they were introduced, came with almost the same price as the previous Pro version, and the new Pro version price went up. That's how I remember it. Not long therafter the brand-specific versions were discontinued, leaving us only with a pricey Pro version product line. Maybe these two decisions (introduction and sunsetting the brand-specific versions) were independant, but maybe it was a plan to lever the price up. Anyway, it fits the game the company seems to play.

    Another thing: It is already the second private investor in a row, first Silverfleet now Axcel.

    Most of it is about pressing money from us and disloyalty against us. Loosing trust. But what bugs me equally is the slow pace of development paired with apparent buggy software releases and the worsened bug fix policy for perpetual license buyers.

    There are not much reasons left to stay with C1, other than that C1 software design and IQ are good. I'm staying with C1 v22 for now and as long as possible.

    2
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Hi Slovakbrit,

    There is possibly a migration path back to v21. The base idea is to export all originals from your catalog(s) including adjustments, batch amend the exported .cos files (a few tags only) and import them into a new v21 catalog.

    I did this successfully from 15.4 to 15.2 because 15.2 is the last version they didn't ruin it for me, but I assume it should be possible back to v21 also.

    The least manual work would be to export All images at once into one big folder and distribute them into subfolders on catalog import using tokens, if the available tokens are sufficiently close to your desired folder structure. My approach was a little different as I was using my existing files and folders as the target structure, so I exported and then moved the CaptureOne subfolders manually but with a good strategy and some testing beforehand it should be possible with reasonable effort.

    1
  • Slovakbrit

    It was your comments and the reply you received that prompted me to make my own comment, lets hope that we don't all leave just because of a greedy management. we are after all just creative people looking to improve what we do, not too much to ask.

    1
  • Slovakbrit

    Well John and BeO I decided after all the discussion on this post to make sure I am not imagining my problem, it all started when I updated to 14.4.0 and it started to take forever to load the images, so on the 31st October 2021 I opened ticket with C1 staff, but the result was not worth mentioning.
    Anyway this week I decided to test the whole concept, I cleaned C1 from my PC completely and loaded C1 21 version 14.0.0, over the next few days I built a new catalogue of approx 27,000 images, once it was set up and running well I timed it from when the program is loaded till all images are shown in the library, it took around 2-3 secs, then I stripped C1 again and loaded the latest version C1 23 16.1.2.44 and then timed that, it took 15.33 secs, not a long time but these are B&W images around 5-7mb each so when I load my Canon catalogue with 30,00, 20-30 mb images you can imagine the difference.
    This is probably of no importance to some people but for me it has proved to be a real pain in the rear end and the fact of paying for two updates since then only serves to make me more annoyed.
    So the upshot of this is that I will be using version 14.3.1 from now on and I will not be putting anymore money in their piggy bank until they can at least have look at the problem, it is sad as I had been enjoying learning all the new ideas...........

    1
  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    You have move(d) to an adobe model 

    Nope. Not even close to true.

     You(r) product is not so good that I can’t walk away

    Seriously: nobody cares about your flounce. Just go, and spit your dummy out somewhere else.

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    Just read this comment and I have to say Keith that a. you have not been a member long enough to know what loyalty is.  b. I also care about other peoples opinions and don't just ridicule them, its childish. I  think you are probably an apple user and don't have to worry as the program is geared to that now.

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    Ok I take your points and too a great extent I agree, I also have been using C1 since 2014 and it was a better then, your point about ranting on this forum, at least people do read it, I have raised a problem with C1 staff for two years but nothing has come of it.

    I apologise for insinuating that you may be an Apple user, I also grew up on MS-DOS, ex radio ham and built my first system in 1980, you had to understand the way it all worked then, now they just want to blind us with science, I still build my PCs from scratch so I know what it is capable of, I lived and breathed Adobe from version 2 of PS then they shut us common photographers out, C1 are doing the same and no this forum is not the place to get it sorted but it is the place to rant now and then, this software is not cheap and I for one would like to be heard once in a while.

    My apologies if I offended you but at least you listened and replied, that is something in this day and age.

    Subject closed I guess, please have a good day.

    0
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    You don't get away this easy from my side, Keith R.

    Firstly, you have no idea if I agree or if I care. 

    Second, the OP did not start a typcial rant, and I actually find it very informative. Where else if not here should C1 users dicuss about what they like or what they dislike about C1 software or company. Tell me!

    Third, where are the forum rules for the current Zendesk forum you use to justify your typical (not always) offending replies. The fact that you are longer here than others (I am only here since version 8) does not mean you can offend others here. Maybe you remember, there has also been a forum rule not to offend other posters (a rule you typically, as well as me right now, are violating).

    Be a gentleman, a gentle man, not a hostile one, that improves many including your own lifes.

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    I have to say that from my perspective this discussion would not be taking place if C1 did actually listen to those who have been loyal, albeit minor players in the big company that they have become, my problem only arose after one upgrade, should that not be important to them, do I have to call on others in the forum to back up my complaint and plenty of them have done so. I will probably scrap 10 years of work, go back to the version that works and stay with it regardless of amazing updates.

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    Well John and BeO it does feel better to know I am not alone and I do concur with all that you have both said, I am afraid that this was the reason for my leaving Adobe and moving to C1, my biggest problem is that if I go back to C21 which was the last version that didn't have my loading problem I will have to rebuild my catalogues from scratch as I did not keep any of the backups, trusting fool that I am, on the other hand if I move to other competition I will end up doing that anyway.

    It is good to see that not everyone ignores what is so blindingly obvious, money speaks louder than anything else.

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    Hi Thanks for the advice, not sure if I quite understand it but will have a look later when I have some time, will let you know. Mike

    0
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Don't hesitate to ask if you have questions.

    0
  • Chris Benson

    There are people here who think, consider and engage in useful communication. There are others who do not.

    Loyalty is not a phrase that can be rolled out without something meaningful to back it up, in this instance it is my opinion it is contrived.

    Who on this forum knows me, knows how I came to be a phase user, what it costs and what I can afford?

    My problem with capture one is it is slowly becoming a replica (financially) of adobe,.

    We are required to accept terms and conditions that state faults with the product are ours to work around until the vendor gets around to fixing them, that loyalty is only something that goes back a version or so, and that subscription is the only way forward.

    Recall the catch cry many versions ago that was about owing the product forever?

    My post highlights my thoughts and considerations on the entire product, which includes its function and it’s financial model, not just the tool.

    If you read the T&C’s it will be obvious there is vastly more than functionality that makes up a product. As with all purchases, rentals it’s important to consider all aspects.

    Thanks for the comments and Kieth R, pull you head in, you have no clue about me and you come across as an angry and abusive person.

    John friend your post was both informative and interesting, thanks everyone else and there was some good discussion.

    Cheers

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    Hi BeO   One question for you, what do you mean by "batch amend the exported .cos files (a few tags only)" it confuses me a bit.

    0
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    If you export the originals including  adjustments, the adjustments will be stored in the subfolder CaptureOne\Settings152  (with 152 indicating the version number, so it might be different in your case) in .cos files, one CO Setting file for each original image. You will also find .comask files if you use layers.

    You need to rename the folder Settingsxxx to Settings141 (or similar, do a test with your specific v21 version you will be using), and you need to update the content of all .cos files (therefore "batch" amend or update e.g. with Notepad++ if you are on Windows). The cos files have tags, some of them need to be changed, eg.

    <E K="Author" V="15.2.0.59 Pro Win" />

    to 

    <E K="Author" V="14.2.0.0 Pro Win" />  or similar, again, test with your specific v21 version for the exact value of the Author tag.

    You need to adjust 

    <E K="Version" V="1300" />

    and maybe

    <VAR Engine="1300"> (that is the value in the base characteristics tool), though 1300 is ok as this is v20, it should not be higher than the value of the engine used in v21, you can leave it if it is smaller.

    After these adjustments the Settings folder and the cos files would look as if they were exported from a v21 version, you then can import the images with these adjustment files into a v21 catalog.

    You can leave the .comask filea alone (they are no text files anyway) and I don't think they contain version specific data.

    No guarantee, you need to test this approach and the downgrade from your current version to v21 by yourself.

     

     

     

    0
  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Maybe still confusing but the idea is to export the adjustments with your current version and change them so that it looks as if it had been exported by your desired v21 version. You cannot downgrade a catalog database but you can "downgrade" the content in the exported settings files.

    Do an export with some test images with both  C1 versions to see the different values and compare them thoroughly so that you know which tags to adjust and which the exact values should be.

    Use Find and Replace with an app which allows to do this over all files in a folder or even in subfolders (like Notepad++)

    A new catalog (in v21) of course means you'll lose your static albums from your current catalog, so hopefully you have used keywords for your image classification, otherwise give a new keyword for all images in each static album before you do the export, so that you can find the images easily later in the v21 catalog.

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    Ok Thank you, I do understand it now and will give it a test run, I am not in any rush so will think it all out, my RAW files I remove all adjustments after I export them to TIFF or JPEG so I can just scan them again if need be.

    I have 5 Catalogues, one with all colour images and one with B&W both of which have quite intensive User catalogues and I do not want to lose them so I will do as you suggest by tagging them, I have never used keywords since I stopped uploading to iStock and Getty, very lazy of me I know but I have spent most of the last four years building the B&W catalogue which is nearly all from a vast collection of photos from 1900s onwards taken by a relative, now i have most of them on a website so I can concentrate on my own stuff.

    I much appreciate all the info you have given me and i will let you know how it goes in the future, enjoy your day.

    0
  • Slovakbrit

    Yes I have to agree, I think the saying something to do with horses bolting and doors being closed.

    I did save the old catalog backups ages ago but complacency must have set, oh well we all live and learn.

    0
  • Jack W
    Admin

    Keith R Happy to hear about any gripes you have with the forum and how we can improve it. It's exactly why I made the following topic: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/topics/10088636757021-Community-Feedback

    I'd also be interested to hear how your experience compares these days compared to the Phase One forum back in the day. I've worked for both companies across a number of years and I am keen to take on as much feedback as I can, and make this community work for both experienced users like yourself, and anybody new to Capture One.

     

    0
  • Jamie Dumont

    I have to say that I'm very much on side with John and BeO here, and am grateful that there is a space to air grievances like this. My personal thoughts, send in an email to C1 directly, are unlikely to raise any eyebrows and change their course; but a large number of users questioning (rationally with justification) why C1 might be losing their business in the future is something that they may well take note of. 

    Unfortunately, at this point I don't expect much will change unless the number-crunchers in charge deem their investment at risk. Personally, I am still using C1 as my only editor but as a subscriber I am reaching an inflection point. I could not renew my C1 subscription and instead pick up an LR one for less money, and with less hand-wringing over what the company might do in the future, and whether they'll even be around in a few years. Sensational? Perhaps, but it's my experience that VC-backed software companies go sideways silently and slowly for years, and then all at once. The changes that have been made recently, and the destruction of a lot of goodwill makes be wonder how far off that all-at-once is.

    I've written about this at length on my website recently, so I won't recite it all here. In short, I'm generally positive about the software, the features being added and even the iPad app, but I worry that the user-hostile decisions from those in marketing and finance might mean that all the good development work is for naught, and that I've invested time and money into a software that can't support my work into the future.

    0
  • Keith R
    Top Commenter

    Wrong Keith, I care.

    No, you might agree - but why on earth would you care about someone you literally wouldn't know if he stood up in your bowl of soup?

    Just read this comment and I have to say Keith that a. you have not been a member long enough to know what loyalty is

    I've been on this - and the original - Capture One forum since Capture One version 3.7, and over the years I've watched the inexorable decline of the "Capture One online user experience" - caused explicitly by the want of forum rules and proper moderation - with great disappointment.

    So what's your point there, exactly?

    I also care about other peoples opinions and don't just ridicule them

    I care about other opinions too: as I've demonstrated on here for many years, legitimate concerns get my respect and my help: but (and again, know this because I've been around forever) there used to be rules on the old Phase One version of the forum that:

    • you didn't post just to vent: "if you have a problem with [Capture One - it was actually "Phase One", back then] take it up with [Capture One]"; and
    • you didn't post  sulky, huffy, self-important "I'm out of here..!"  posts: "if you're going, just go..."

    The OP broke both of those, and I called him out for it. It's not "ridiculing" him to object to his sense of entitlement, or to point out the factual inaccuracy of his post.

    Posts like his SERVE NO USEFUL PURPOSE. 

    Oh, and Windows-only user here - since Win 95 (and in fact, MS-DOS before that.)

    Anything else I can help you with?

    -1

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