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Please Improve noise reduction to modern standards

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81 Kommentare

  • Ian Forber

    Sebastian, I read your post as saying that you can cycle an image from C1 to PureRAW using the latter as a plug-in, much the same way as you can with the Nik Collection apps. I’m trialling PureRAW 3 at the moment and can’t do that and DxO confirm that I can’t do that. Instead, I need to drop the RAW into PureRAW and export it to C1. I’d rather do my initial edits in C1 first, which means exporting the edited DNG file from C1 and then getting a post-DxO processed one back, duplicating my raw files. Am I missing something obvious in my workflow?

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  • Sebastian Reiprich

    English isn’t my first language so maybe what I was trying to say didn’t come across the way I intended. So I try to explain it a little bit better.

    I don’t use the catalogue feature of C1 and always work in sessions. For most of my images taken at reasonable ISO values the noise handling of C1 is pretty much fine in my opinion.
    But when I have a few images taken at higher ISO or under low light conditions I just select those images, right click on them, open in PureRaw3 and then I choose my settings. You can set up PR3 so the it exports the resulting DNG files in the same folder where the source files were from (in my case that is usually the sessions capture folder). So after the processing is done the new DNG file instantly appears in C1 next to the original RAW file.

    You could of course do some edits on the original file first, then let it process in PR3 and then simply copy your adjustments from the original file to new one. However this is not something I would recommend since the processing of PR3 tends to brighten the files by maybe 1/3 EV and sometimes the white balance shifts a little bit (in this case C1 smart adjustments are pretty helpful to make the new image look exactly as the old one).

    If this workflow doesn’t work for you I assume you could do your edits first, export the image in C1 and then process the exported image in PR3. But I personally wouldn’t do this, because again I assume that PR3 achieves the best results with RAW images.

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  • mountainview

    Ian Forber I tested DxO Raw in my workflow with C1. DxO can only do its "magic" when using the original RAW. One of the reasons is, that they are applying the Denoise before (!) the de-mosaicing - at least that is what I understood. In addition they are executing their own RAW engine which takes advantage of their extensive lens database. So in fact there is only one way to do it right. Start with DxO and then use the resulting DNG in C1. As you may have experienced, these DNG files are substantially larger.

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  • Ian Forber

    Sebastian, I only work with catalog not sessions so maybe that’s the difference. Most of my files are OK but those above 6400 ISO need noise reduction. I’ve never succeeded to right click on an image imported into C1 and send it to PR3. PR3 doesn’t show a thumbnails of the image and when I try to process it it fails immediately. The only way I can get it to work is by dragging a raw file from C1 to the desktop and then dragging that into PR3 for processing.

    Mountainview, that is what I am thinking. So I’d need to download the files to a folder on the computer, process through PR3 and get it to export the resulting files to C1, then once I’m satisfied that PR3 hasn’t messed it up, go back and delete the initial download files. To avoid making this even worse, I’d have to do this as a bulk process which will take ages (I have a 2017 MacBook Pro).

    PR3 is significantly better than C1 and Topaz at taking noise out of files >8000 ISO. I don’t have many of those so maybe I just give up on PR3 for now. Shame.

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  • Sebastian Reiprich

    I have seen videos on YT of people using PR3 with catalogues and there should be an option in PR3 to reimport the processed files into the catalogue.

    https://youtu.be/v22QJiKMz0g?si=b7i5sdOqrfilXvnq

    Starts at about 2:25

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  • Ric Cohn

    Ian, I also don't use catalog, but that may not be the problem. Apology in advance if this has nothing to do with your problem.

    Is it possible you are selecting "Edit with"? If so, you need to use "Open with". PR3 should show in the menu when you right click whichever you choose. I'm using Canon so .cr3 file gets sent to PR3 and comes back as a .dng. In PR3 preferences I have selected to return the .dng to the same folder, so it appears next to the original Raw. Same goes for Topaz. Don't know if using Catalog makes a difference in whether the file appears without reimporting, in Sessions it just appears.

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  • Jochen Wüst

    After using C1 for years I must now say that I agree with Tino regarding the noise reduction topic. At least conditionally. I don't know why, but if I export images in their original resolution, they turn out pretty darn good (even when shot at high ISO). However, as soon as I export an image scaled down (to, say, something like 1200px or 1500px on the long edge), the result for some reason appears to be much more noisy than the original res. viewed at 100%! Which basically makes no sense, since the noise should become less visible when an image is scaled down. But it's a fact that I have to deal with and I don't like it. It gets even more weird: If I export the finished & denoised image as a 16bit TIFF, then re-import that TIFF again and export a 1200px JPEG from that TIFF, then I finally end up with something that looks like the result I would have wanted / expected right from the start when exporting a smaller version from the edited RAW.

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  • Gourmetglow

    I would absolutely love C1 to have a feature comparable to the denoise on Lr, it’s definitely holding the programme back from its main competitor and I feel that it would absolutely level up the gap, bringing C1 to the forefront. At the moment editing low light images is pretty difficult

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  • SoaringSprite

    I've just downloaded the Capture One Pro free trial to see what I'm missing. I've been using DxO PhotoLab 7, which is better than Lightroom IMO. The high ISO denoising is SO good in PL7!

    Although I'm really liking the workflow in Capture One Pro better than DxO PL7, the terrible noise reduction is the only thing holding me back from purchasing or subscribing to this software. I don't want to have to use two different programs for denoising and editing. That defeats the purpose! The last thing I want to do is extend my time staring at the screen.

    Please update this to modern standards (as suggested above) and you'll have a winning piece of software. I'll click "buy" as soon as I see this at least match the other post-processing software.

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  • Den Denyer

    Right now I'm batch processing C1 output through Topaz AI - It's not *too* bad a workflow thanks at least to the fact that the developers at Topaz implemented reasonable batch controls, but it's certainly a step I'd rather not have to take!

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  • Miles Hurwitz

    I would just like c1 noise reduction to actually appear in the photo preview, not just the tiny "focus" pane.  But I don't subscribe and am still on '22 so it's wishful thinking that I'll ever get that without coughing up $ for a new version :( 

    -1
  • Eugene Girshtel

    If you zoom into 100% or even 66% you will see the noise reduction applied. I don't see an issue with this as you want to be zoomed in at 100% to accurately judge noise reduction and sharpness.

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  • Ryan Johnson

    @Eugene Girshtel
    We know that. NR needs to be applied to preview images. I constantly have to double check settings or zoom in to see if NR has been applied. It is ridiculous to have to do that. Editing 800 event photos at a time makes your solution a total non-starter. Think before you post.

    -2
  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    Ryan Johnson So you're going to pop into a post that you've contributed nothing to and moan because someone hasn't considered your specific situation and, worse, call them out??? Dude.  Check yourself before you post. 

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  • Thomas D.

    Hi, 

    Since DxO DeepPrime was released (2020 with PhotoLab), as an improvement in the Xtreme detail version (2022, with PhotoLab 6), there has not been a single photo that I have processed without it.

    Xtreme detail in particular improves the demosaic and makes the output of my images finer, the colors are much better and not washed out.

    My photography has changed since I started using AI denoising.

    I can concentrate more on the photography and less on the camera.

    That means I'm always in AV mode (-0.5 EV / -1EV, to avoid cutting the highlights) at weddings, always with Auto ISO (100 to 25600), the only thing I control is the aperture.

    The camera is allowed to go up to ISO 25600 on its own (most are between ISO 400 and 3200), which it really only does late at night and I don't have to throw these pictures away.

    When I see people on instagram being told to shoot in manual mode because they need to have control over the camera, I get annoyed.

    I have the possibility to limit the behavior of the camera so that I can imagine what it will do and therefore it remains in my control.

    If I had to set the camera for every situation, I would miss a lot of important situations.

    Smartphones are catching up in terms of quality and have already overtaken around 40% of amateur to semi-professional photographers.

    Why should I as a customer book someone who is slower than a smartphone, because he has to take care about the "right" settings? 

    Move with the times or time will move with you.

    ____

    Because Capture One has now, especially with the last update (16.3.4, 4 days ago), become a mass image processing weapon, I am now able to process 2000 images in 4 days, in single image Photoshop editing quality.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Can you please tell me what is "Xtreme detail"? Do you mean DeepPrime XD, and do you use DeepPrime XD in mass processing?

    (I use DXO Photolab 6 on occasion, for select images, but mostly the old DeepPrime). 

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  • Thomas D.

    BeO

    Yes, Deep Prime XD is Xtreme Detail.

    And yes, i use it in mass Processing since 2020 (DeepPrime), 2022 (Deep Prime XD).

    I lower it to 30%, to avoid artifacts, i also use the lens correction (vignetting), i export to dng and use this files in Capture One with a special "Style" that does use a special color correction (i would call it natural colors).

    After Capture One i do antother denoising, with Topaz PhotoAI for images above ISO 1600, to get them more perfect.

    I use the autopilot, which I set in the preferences so that it really only filters out the roughest noise.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Thank you Thomas.

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  • Thomas D.

    I have an example video here that shows the extended process, i.e. there is still a correction in photoshop.

    Otherwise it's always the same for me, no matter if its a nature image or a wedding.

    Note that this is before the last update, i.e. now the style includes the AI masks (for background and object) and a luma mask (for the highlights).

    The system used was a Ryzen 7950X, 64GB ECC, AMD Radeon PRO W6800 ECC (2020 GPU, Like AMD RX 6800, ECC = Memory Error Correction and makes the system more stable)

    If you want to have fun with AI denoising you need about 20 teraflops.

    And I advise you to buy a professional GPU, do yourself a favor and don't buy a gaming GPU.

    No Talking - Just editing - YouTube

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    Interesting, thanks.

    Is there a reason why you convert to sRGB so early in your workflow?

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  • Thomas D.

    @BeO

    Yes, using bigger colorspaces did cause some problems with conversion into sRGB.

    Deep Blue in ProPhotoRGB is replaced with purple in sRGB, so after the conversion the images did not look as nice (Blue of the sky, faces etc.)

    When i work with the target colorspace it does make much less problems.

    And since our customers are normal people, its not a problem.

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