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Subscriptions, Licenses and Cost of Ownership

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220 comments

  • Michael Fleck

    How to ruin a company and valuable customers trust in 3… 2… 1…

    Now that's what I call a massive shitstorm! So many comments, all expressing dissatisfaction.

    Regular customers, loyal customers from all over the world complaining. You can see from this that the customers do care what you do with them and the "loyalty programme".

    There are many competing products out there. It would be so easy to switch. DxO, Lightroom, On1, Topaz, Exposure7, just to name a few. But customers take the time to comment because apparently it DOES matter to them and they don't really want to switch.

    So many comments. What is amazing is that there is no comment from Capture One itself. Icy silence. Instead I got a 40% voucher yesterday, as previously announced. It seems C1 wants to continue the line ironclad.

    We'll see if it makes enough money and sales increase, even though they've pushed a lot of customers away. If the maths doesn't add up, we'll see discount promotions again. Special offers. What's the point of a 40% voucher if it's not redeemed? 40% of 0 is still 0.

    The market determines the price. The eternal law of supply and demand. If interest wanes and no money is earned, customers will have to be wooed more again.

    I find it very cheeky to also call this rip-off a loyalty programme. Loyalty has no price tag. Loyalty comes from conviction and heart.

    2
  • Michael Parker

    Does anyone else think it’s a strange loyalty scheme that rewards loyal subscribers by giving a discount to buy a perpetual licence, with the chance then that they’ll stop subscribing so losing their their loyalty, and not actually rewarding customers that continue paying their subscription fee?

    Unless, of course the promise of new features is classed as rewarding loyalty, features that are as of yet unknown or how frequent.

    I guess they’ve number crunched this, but the sort of loyalty scheme I’d be more tempted by would be if they also offered a 20% discount off a yearly subscription for each year you’ve subscribed or off a perpetual licence with the 5th year of subscription free or a perpetual licence for free.

    Then in the 6th year they could reset to 20% discount and so on.

    That way people who only ever subscribe will benefit too, not just those who, ironically, have potentially decided to stop contributing to C1 cash flow.

    1
  • Thomas Pietsch

    This table shows only one thing to me: perpetual licenses you upgrade every 2 years (old version) are much more cheaper than any other license model. Now I should pay more and receive the same?????

    0
  • Goran

    @Thomas Pietsch 

    Of course, that was the whole idea of this change.

    0
  • Petr Bokvaj

    @Thomas Pietsch  no, actually get LESS - because, you will get software as it is, with only bugs fixed for some limited time, without any new functionality. Now it was different - you had all updates between versions, even with new functionality.

    0
  • Thomas Pietsch

    Petr Bokvaj your right ... it is much more less now we will receive not the same

    0
  • IOANNIS XYDAS

    The increase in price is chocking.The way they are trying to do that is more chocking.The approach is like they were selling shampoo in a supermarket.Even the prices (29€, 219€, 349€) are in this direction. No respect from C1 to his devoted(since yesterday) clients, and no respect to C1 we used to know and appreciate.

    0
  • Michael Fleck

    „DxO PhotoLab 6 is yours

    You own your photos and you own your camera, so why rent your software? DxO’s photo editing software has always been free of subscriptions.“

    It is that simple.
    It could be that simple.

    0
  • mountainview

    What annoys me the most, is the time (and money, of course) I invested in C1. Numerous hours of learning to skillfully use and understand the software, watching tutorials, adjusting my workflow, converting older photos (edited in Aperture, DxO and Lightroom), Beta-testing new versions of the software, buying upgrades every year (for years because of new operating systems, supported camera models and lenses, hope ...), buying some styles etc. I definitely invested a lot of the above and goodwill, and I am not a professional. It was (mostly) fun, while it lasted, but now reality breaks in. You are not valued as a customer anymore. You are the “wrong” customer for this product, as it is only for photographers with big wallets or budgets. Of course, there is no “right” to get an affordable software package. But when your subscription is double the price of the market leader, the niche you are driving yourself into must be very profitable indeed.

    I almost have the feeling that the opportunity costs of switching were accounted in this pricing model. It hurts to switch a tool you used for so many years. The new “Loyalty” approach of C1 is definitely targeted towards professionals for whom using the software is just a matter of accounting and possibly saving some time on the job. Enthusiasts are obviously driven away to competitors that are more eager to win their loyalty.

    It really hurts to see a company taking such a path. At the end, many of my friends were right when they challenged my decision to choose C1 and not go for Adobe. Well, it seems they were right. I would not be surprised when there soon will be offerings and tools to lure people away into their own software eco-sphere. We will soon see how well customers feelings and competitors actions were anticipated in C1 forecasting. 

    Of course, nothing will change right away. The first interesting milestone for C1 management will be this autumn. How many people will switch to C1 subscription? How many will upgrade/or not? And then, the same questions again in autumn 2024. By then, C1 will either be a successful and profitable niche company or will be looking for a new CEO because their PE investor Axcel lost its temper.

    2
  • Michael Richter

    @mountainview

    There's no better way to put it. I feel the same way. Many hours and many hundreds of euros...

    0
  • Mancebo

    I woud like to buy subscription annual, but NOW ,,, i think that Adobe give me 2 application for this price, or even less price.
    Too complicated tables, and combination how to get money, but i think You schould focus on rebuild application, not on sales.
    Sooo, i'll be waiting few week, and probably go to Adobe because Adobe give Us Photoshop FREE. 
    So.... look below 
    https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/14/23162580/photoshop-web-free-freemium-version-adobe

     

    0
  • Micheal Jennings

    Hey,

    There have been a lot of changes to the Adobe software in the last 3 years I have been with COP. This may actually be a good thing to ditch COP and PU Lightroom. Even Adobe RAW has changed and it's now pretty easy to use. The subscription is quite a bit cheaper than COP. As an amateur and need to keep the costs down. I will trial this and see where it leads. 

    Any ideas what should I do with all the COP sessions I have ????

    0
  • mountainview

    @Michael Jennings

    There is a software called "Avalanche" that migrates catalogs, libraries etc. between several apps (incl. to a certain extent edits). As far as I know DxO integration is next.

    https://cyme.io/avalanche-photo-conversion/

    1
  • FirstName LastName

    The main reason I started to use Capture One many years ago, is that I dislike the subscription model of Lightroom. I am not using the key features of Capture One, like camera tethering. I am a hobby photographer, and I make no money from my hobby. I have been upgrading my perpetual Capture One license every year for many years. But the new cost of upgrades seems too high. And, a problem with the subscription model, is that the software will stop working if Phase One closes their doors, and turns off their servers.

    1
  • Class A

    Is it not also a problem for recent C1 versions that were sold with a perpetual license that they need to "phone home" from time to time to keep working?

    A while ago, offline activation was possible but Capture One moved away from that and I've read that recent versions do need to make contact to a Capture One server from time to time.

    It would be great if someone could clarify that. I'm not interested in software that I cannot use offline without compromises.

    1
  • peter riding

    Adobe has been testing a free online version of Photoshop for some months now, I think Canada may have been one of the regions running it. Not clear at present how comprehensive or limited it will be and which regions will be added. But it is going to happen.

    Perhaps Capture One thinks / realises that such a move by Adobe may kill off a huge proportion of C1's amateur / hobbyist client base as even the previous perpetual licenses have been quite steep for what they are; so C1's thinking may be that only those with deep pockets will stay anyway regardless of how much or how little future prices may be.

    Adobe may offer, or may already have (I don't know) the facility to stop and re-start Photoshop and Lightroom rather like Netlix and Youtube already do. This means that you would not be left high and dry with no means of editing previous files as one-offs in future years. 

    0
  • Michael Parker

    peter riding

    Not easy to find on Adobe pages but I found this on a faq page
    So apparently not !

    Can I temporarily suspend/cancel my subscription?
    No, there is no option to cancel or suspend a subscription temporarily.

    0
  • Lesley McEwan

    Well I am between a rock and a hard place sooner than I expected.  When I couldn't open a Catalogue in C1. 22 I got in touch with the help desk.  The answer, the catalogue is incompatible with my updated Ventura 13.2.1 only 13.00.  So what to do?  Sessions still seem to be working and that is what I use mostly, but for how long?  I convinced myself I would have longer to make a decision. Would the perpetual lease, free after 5 years, last as long as going from Ventura 13.00 to 13.2?  You have to ask yourself "what does free mean?". 

     

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  • Henk de Haan

    Lesley McEwan, if you're an EU citizen and bought the C22 in 2022 you should have the right to receive a bugfix release (just like the 15.4.3 release after Ventura 13.0.1). EU directive 2019/771 guarantees a two year warranty on digital goods which cannot be waived by 'As-Is' software licenses.

    IMHO Capture One cannot blame Apple for the incompatibility's. They should either have made a better catalogue system or provide a free update/bugfix (which probably isn't that difficult). I hope someone will make a formal complaint at a Danish or European consumer organization.

    3
  • James Stevenson

    I've been in a conversation with a customer services rep, and just left them this reply: 

    -- 

    I appreciate you're in customer care and not making these decisions, but I have to ask - has anyone at C1 taken a look at the comments on the pricing page? 
    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/8825531814045-Subscriptions-Licenses-and-Cost-of-Ownership

    I mean... you need only pick ten at random to get a great barometer of how these pricing decisions have gone over. 

    A great many people moved to C1 from Adobe for clearer, fairer pricing, and honest cost effective perpetual licensing with upgrade incentives. Now it appears not only have those options evaporated, C1 is actually more expensive than its Adobe counterpart. 

    People don't leave comments in these numbers if they were simply already about to jump ship. This, to me, reflects a truly loyal user base who greatly enjoy the software feeling blindsided by a billing structure strong-arming them towards a subscription model. 

    I appreciate nothing will come of this, but if you could forward my message to someone in billing / marketing, I'd really appreciate that. I didn't want to stop using C1, but I'm one of those hundreds of people in the comments who feel that time has come. 

    Again I don't wish to shoot the messenger here, and genuinely hope my comments are constructive rather than a rant! It's not my intention to simply blow off steam, rather to spotlight marketing mis-step in the hope there are better options for customers too. I remain hopeful and will, occasionally, check back in to C1 forums 



    3
  • Bill

    James Stevenson well put, but I think the gamble they are taking is they are prepared to lose the hundreds complaining out of  the 250,000 users who will ultimately generate greater profits. 

    0
  • Class A

    @Bill

    One has to bear in mind, though, that the damage won't be limited to a hundred complainers. The latter, if they had not been estranged, would have kept recommending C1 to others, generating word of mouth that would have generated second-order recommendations to others, etc.

    I'm pretty certain the damage won't be confined to the few hundred that are currently complaining.

    It could all still be worth it, financially, for Capture One; remains to be seen.

    1
  • Michael Fleck

    Not to mention the customers who don't complain because it's not worth the trouble to them.

    These customers probably just shake their heads and buy something else.

    In all the comments here, I read a lot of passion from loyal users. They write long texts and want to achieve something with them. 

    But there are also the indifferent ones. They jump on another train and don't look back.

     

    @ bill: this is maths. If they Turn away to much Customers and revenue and Numbers decline, We will have Special offers in our E-Mails. Nevertheless, i will not spend my money to this Kind of business Model. I want stability and Peace of mind. 

    1
  • Jorge Toro

    I have been a Capture One Pro user for 4 years on a perpetual license upgrading every year - once the terms and conditions changed last year effectively removing the benefits of a perpetual license and upping the prices, I can't justify upgrading again . I am now switching to Lightroom and Adobe.

    0
  • Stephen Coulembier

    For years I've been looking to switch to capture one subscription from my perpetual licence, each and every time I get to the "info" of the plans, I give up! It's honestly worst than the Davinci Code, trying to figure out what's best. So, until you do something about making your plans VERY clear and simple, I have to stick with ADOBE.

    0
  • Stuart Lamble

    I have a problem.

    I switched to Capture One after Apple discontinued Lightroom. It's been a little rough around the edges for me, but it works well enough. Because I'm an occasional hobbyist photographer, I bought - and continued to buy - the perpetual license, every other release.

    Now I'm effectively stuck on macOS 12.6.5, because Capture One 22 is only supported up to macOS 13.0: I'm in a better position to receive security updates on macOS 12 than I would be on macOS 13. Now I look at Capture One 23, and I see that it's only supported up to macOS 13.2 (released in January this year), whereas the current release is 13.3 (released March this year.) It's been a month and a half since 13.3 was released, and over a month since 13.3.1, and Capture One 23 still doesn't officially support it.

    I don't expect a software company to necessarily support the latest and greatest. But when security fixes are coming out, and I have an obligation to myself to stay as close as possible to the latest security fixes, it puts me in direct conflict with my photography habit when the photography software I use doesn't get updated in a timely manner to support those versions.

    And now you're basically telling me to suck it up, what I get when I pay for a license is what I get, no new feature releases? What exactly is included in a "feature release" versus a "bug fix release"? Newer versions of macOS, for example?

    You are being far too opaque in what you have to say, and to be frank, it leaves me thinking that I made a mistake when I moved to Capture One. I'm certainly now actively looking to figure out what my alternatives might be, because whilst I want to keep having my photography available to me, making sure that I keep my operating system up to date is more important to me. A week, maybe two, is tolerable. More than that, given that you do (or should!) have access to release candidates to check for regressions and other issues, is not.

    Time to look closely at Raw Therapee and Darktable, I think. I get that this stuff is not straightforward, but at the same time, there are certain things that I expect out of software that I'm paying for, and if I can't get them, why should I pay?

    0
  • Lesley McEwan

    Stuart Lamble I agree with you.  I updated to perpetual lease in Feb because I was told my issues with V22 would be fixed going to V23.  I have had nothing but trouble with V23. I have been using CO for years and I find V23 doing weird things!  I am also delayed upgrading my Apple system because I am afraid that CO will not be capable after only having it 3 months.  Surely you could expect CO at least to give system updates for a year.  I did love using CO but unless things improve this year I won't be doing V24. I used to recommend Capture 1 to my club members, but how could I now? Plus Capture 1 is 3 times the price of Lightroom.  You could argue pay it up front and it doesn't cost that much.........but that would not be comparing apples to apples. This has been a big mistake..... I certainly won't be paying, as an amateur, $550 a year.  

     

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  • FirstName LastName

    Well, having used C1 for many years as a keen amateur and now having experienced the massive improvements in the Adobe Photography package, I’m off to join Adobe. The C1 marketing plan is ludicrous in my opinion and Adobe must be rubbing their hands now. Such a shame, as the C1 software is/was first class, if you have an operating system that will run it. I can only assume the company is now being run by accountants, where revenue is all that matters.

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  • Stefan Sipl

    Still can‘t see any good in the new license model. What‘s your take? Way too expensive. 

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