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Subscriptions, Licenses and Cost of Ownership

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219 comments

  • HD

    That ws it Capture One.

    Off to DxO!

    It was your decission not mine Capture One.

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  • FirstName LastName

    Is C1 still a choice for new/hobbyist photographers?

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  • mountainview

    FirstName LastName I would say, this very much depends on your ambitions and budget. It may not be the easiest to master, but its fundamentals are like most other RAW Converters. I would say a bit more manual work though and less AI heavy. It is an excellent product, the caveat is the new pricing model though. I would consider it almost prohibitive unless you are really sure and know why you need a tool like C1. The pricing pushes potential customers to other brands and services (and there are many). Once you have started with a software package it is not that easy to switch. You can try C1, but I would not really recommend it unless money is no matter. 

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  • FirstName LastName

    Thank You mountainview for your thought. I also feel C1's price and pricing model is prohibitive/preventive in nature to the new users.
    Also, another uncertainty is on OS vs C1 version compatibility after sometime.
    ---
    example:
    Let say a user purchases C1's 16.x version which is currently compatible with current OperatingSystem(OS.yy.xx.zz)

    After sometime if OS sends a security patch update, because of which C1 become bugging/instable, then will C1 also send a minor patch update to ensure compatibility
    or
    will C1 force you to buy newer version?

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  • Uwe Berner

    I am exactly with this from Michael Jodoin:

    Well, I used to love and respect your software, but unfortunately the only thing I have to add, is that I agree to all previous commentaries that have been made.

    Looks like I have to quitt my loved Hobby, because this Bandits of Softwaredevelopers can't get enough. I am retired and love to play with Photostuff. I have to realize that there is an End. Ok, I could use the C1 I have bought, but once in a Time it will no more work because of an future Firmwareupdate of the Hardware.

    It's hard to survive in the 3. Etape of your Lifespan. Todays Digital Nerds, remember: Once you will be also in this last Quater of your Lifespan and you will have the same trouble hopefully. I wish!

    Hope this Guys from C1 Management read all that Comments Letter by Letter and think about.

    1
  • David Loutit

    @UweBerner You are quite right. Unfortunately, the new management at C1 have presumably calculated that they can bring in more money this way. However, they are mere venture capitalists and have calculated only the money. What they failed to account for was customer pride and loyalty: C1, instead of being a revered app is now despised. I dread to think of the mood of the staff who predated the new management. They must be desolated. They created an admirable product and now few users will want to touch it and none will ever recommend it. It would not surprise me if they are leaving in droves.

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  • mountainview

    As the release of the new Capture One version draws near, many of us, me included, have to make a decision about whether to upgrade/subscribe or not. For years, I bought the C1 Perpetual License Upgrade, which, at least for one year gave me peace of mind. Of course, that's still a lot of money for a hobbyist. Now this is over, and the discounting model, which is euphemistically called a “loyalty program”, pushes me to make a decision. C1 forced me to re-evaluate other software offerings. I tested extensively and also subscribed to Adobe LR/PS a while ago. My conclusion is that the Adobe subscription is, for my purposes, the best package. It is reasonably priced (especially when taking advantage of discounts, which usually bring it to around $90 a year). And with today’s release of LR there is almost nothing that LR can’t do and even more that C1 cannot do. Feature-wise, LR has become superior, their mobile apps for iOS and iPadOS are without question better executed, and their Cloud integration is much smarter (incl. Portfolio by the way, which allows you to publish simple but neat websites). I exclude PS from this comparison as this is a very different discussion. I have no need for tethering or Live integration. So, what to do?  It takes time to adjust to a different photo editor, and image quality may still be a bit more refined in C1, but at what price? Your calculation may vary, but based on non-discounted subscription pricing, LR/PS costs $119.88, C1 costs $179, and C1 All in One costs $258.96 a year. In other countries, C1 is even more expensive. Don’t be fooled by the current discounts C1 is offering for the loyalty-upgrades, this is the first year only. So based on the total cost of ownership, it is an easy choice. Some may argue that there is at least a point where you can “own” C1. This may be true, but realistically speaking, there will always be other choices available. BTW, you can still open and export your images in LR after your subscription ends; you just can’t develop anymore. It does not seem that C1 offers the same courtesy.

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  • Paul Traynar

    Reluctantly, over the past week I have completed my transition back to Lightroom for my photo editing. From a cost/benefit point of view it's a no-brainer. Since C1 exec's shot the company in the foot at the end of 2022 I have been hoping that they would think again but unfortunately they seem to be bent on self destruction. I've had several discount offers for C1 through my email over the past few months but tell me marketing folks, why would I buy a perpetual licence for software that has no new features since version 22 for landscape editing and where I will have to pay the full perpetual license fee all over again should C1 have something to offer in that department in the future?

    C1 execs - have some humility, admit you completely misread the C1 community, bring back perpetual licence upgrades and allow users access to all updates between major versions. You know it makes sense.

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  • Stuart Watson

    As a photo hobbyist I bought C1 v22 with the intention of upgrading to the forthcoming new version this year. However the perpetual license is now too expensive at £299 (in the UK) and the £179 pa subscription is too high. I was seriously considering switching to LR/PS but now see that the previous £120pa Adobe license only gives you LR and to also get PS this is now £240pa. The whole area of photo editing software seems to be coming a mine field which firmly illustrates the problem ( for the user ) with following the subscription route. What is value today may not be the case tommorrow.

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  • mountainview

    Stuart Watson Are you sure regarding the LR/PS pricing? I just checked. There is no change in the LR/PS 20GB bundle, $9.99 per month. There is an additional 1TB tier wich is more expensive though. 

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  • FirstName LastName

    Mountainview/Stuart: I can confirm the Adobe Photography Plan which includes Lightroom in all it's variations and Photoshop, is still [UK] £9.99. It also throws is 20GB storage. The Lightroom App is quite simply excellent. I migrated to Adobe twelve months ago, for all the reasons stated above..

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  • Stuart Watson

    Mountainview/FirstName LastName: I myself was surprised at the Adobe pricing compared to when I have checked previously but this is what I see for the pricing relating to Individuals. I am happy to be proved wrong.

     

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  • Stuart Watson

    Yes I notice that this is the 1TB option but I cannot see a lesser option

    -1
  • Stuart Watson

    Yes I stand corrected. There still is a less expensive option. It does not appear when you choose the 'Buy  Now' button but only when you choose the 'Take the Quiz' button and you are presented with a range of storage options and indeed is LR/PS with 20Gb - why do Adobe try and hide it.  Photo editing and organising software | Adobe Photoshop Lightroom

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  • FirstName LastName

    I own C1 version 23 perpetual. It does all I need as a hobby photographer. It even supports my new Canon EOS R8. I will continue using it for years to come. Subscription is out of the question. I have no need for tethering or the iPad app. I wish there was a loyalty program for upgrades, but there is no such thing now. I have bought every new version of C1 for many years, but with the new price, I cannot afford the upgrade.

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  • Sönke Droß

    I assume that Adobe will rise their prices in future and that generative fill will be their cash cow.
    As a Freelance Post Operator i will stay at C1 because it delivers still the best IQ in my opinion and i can deduct the costs from my income before taxes. But as an amateur it would be hard to justify that amount of money.
    Amateurs should perhaps grudgingly accept permanent software costs if they want the quality of the previous raw developers and perhaps see this as the modern equivalent of the film and lab costs of the analogue era?
    I know it is not little money, but still less then film and prints…

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  • Sönke Droß

    Here the prices of Adobe in germany at the moment. as i understand there will be an increase in November…

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  • Michael Fleck

    Well, it seems that things are not going as intended. 

    Do you realize that sheer amount of emails and discount codes? 

    They are begging to do a new purchase but customers refuse to do so. 

    If things would go as planned, no email ads or discount codes would be necessary... 

    "you can save now up to 50%" ... well. I save up to 100% if I don't make a new purchase, you greedy bookies!

    Loyalty has no price tag!

    Loyalty goes in both ways. 

    I am with Capture One since Version 7. Purchased every year. My money helped to keep C1 running.

    Where is YOUR Loyalty? 

    I just evaluate DXO and Lightroom. A lot of water was done the river since 2014. 

     

    2
  • Judith Black

    So sad to read this info. I've used C1 for as long as it has been around. And that included Media One which was/is the best DAM program ever. I have not upgraded my OS so that I can use it. What a loss to the community not to have a good option. From this thread, I will check out the recent LR/PS offerings. 

    Thanks for the info regarding the company management. 

     

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  • peter riding

    "Well, it seems that things are not going as intended. Do you realize that sheer amount of emails and discount codes? They are begging to do a new purchase but customers refuse to do so. If things would go as planned, no email ads or discount codes would be necessary... "you can save now up to 50%" ... well. I save up to 100% if I don't make a new purchase"

     

    I have been a user for almost 20 years, C1 Pro being my primary software for RAW editing. In the past couple of years it became even more useful with the excellent tutorials by Paul Reiffer.

     

    I have always been a full-time photography pro not a hobbyist or retired or part-timer etc. But I am sticking with version 22 and once it is no longer possible to use (I am on Windows 11) I will be switching. The first alternative I will be testing is Affinity Photo V2.2 It appears to do pretty much everything that straight Adobe Photoshop does for mainstream work, I just need to five ibnto its RAW capabilities.

     

    I looked at one of C1's email offers a few days ago but it was so complicated that I could not be bothered with deciphering it.

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  • mountainview

    Tomorrow, my 12-month period will end (I upgraded to C23 a year ago).  For the first time in many years, I will not buy an upgrade. It is not only the new pricing structure that holds me off but also the unique interpretation of ownership, which locks you in without updates until the next major release. On top of it all, I do not want to incentivize the management's decisions. As I have written before, this is the first milestone for them on their transformational timeline. They probably expect attrition. They just do not know how big the impact will be. Let's make sure they understand the message. 

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  • will heap

    Companies come and go through the decisions they make. I've enjoyed the ride and happily paid for upgrades since C1 7. Plus a 20k hardward investment. Happy to move on to other systems now. It would be nice to know if C1 read the posts in their forums. C1, are you there, do you have anything to say?

     

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  • Stefan Sipl

    Sure they read it. Which makes it even more frustrating.. They simply don‘t care. They stick to their anti-loyalty program, no matter what.

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  • Jonathan Knights

    Well I just hope that CaptureOne management dont find out that the ship has sailed and sunk!

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  • Bill

    I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for a response.

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  • mountainview

    ;) As Paul Watzlwick the highly regarded psychologist, communication theorist and philosopher once formulated: "You cannot not communicate!"

    1
  • Michael Fleck

    I want to make one thing clear:

    This all is not about the software! The developers did a great job and capture one is a great piece of software. I salute them!

    This is about the greedy bookies, the Ebenezer Scrooges that can’t get their pockets full enough.

    A good company should always find the balance between the quality of the product, innovation, customer satisfaction and a reasonable, clearly pricing.

    Everyone should be happy.
    Everything should be in balance.

    If you look here in this forum thread, all customers have the same opinion. The message is clear and i am sure, that this will be read.

    But they ignore it and will try their luck.

    Just failing numbers makes the bookies think and hopefully overthink their strategy. If the money stops flowing, they will overthink or go down.

    I am sure, there are some studio professionals that don‘t care and pay the price. But will this be enough to make a better revenue? To raise the bar?

    In my job, there is a saying:

    Never turn away a customer. It is hard to get him back.

    Maybe the developers should quit and found a new company, where the product is first, not money first.

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  • Mispel3991

    I’ve to to On1 Photo Raw a few years ago because of the price and I’ve that software grow to a level which gives a almost comparable IQ for a much lesser price than C1. The 2024 version looks very promising and they offer a perpetual for a reasonable price.

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  • mountainview

    I can confirm that the C1 discount dropped from 40% to 20% the day after the 12-month period (for the perpetual license) ended. So the systems are all put in place for the new pricing model. Will be interesting to see if/when they become desperate enough and start offering higher discounts to win back previously loyal customers who are simply offended by their approach.

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  • Michael Fleck

    The market makes the price.

    Just don‘t buy.

    When moneyflow stops, we will see some nice emails with special discounts. And nice funky countdowns.

    Be patient.

    When the bookies like to play games, I‘m in.

    The want our money.

    So let’s play.

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