Broken ICC printing
Hello
With the latest version of Mac OS Ventura and Capture One, my ICC printing workflow is broken. Not sure when it happened (after which upgrades) and can't tell if the problem is C1 or MacOS specific, but today I just noticed the problem after printing on my Canon Pro-1000 a complex image in which the reds were way off from the screen. My whole workflow is calibrated (Eizo with hardware calibration etc + papers with specific ICC profiles)
So that's the problem: if I use the C1 printing dialog box and specify as a color profile "Managed by printer" and then select the profile from the Canon printer driver, everything works fine (accurate colors, profile is taken into account). If I export the same image to Canon's Professional Print & Layout application and print on the same paper and profile, I get a similar print with correct/similar colors. So far so good.
However back to C1, if I print from C1 and choose directly the color profile, my colors are off. In this scenario, I expect C1 to apply the profile while disabling the Canon driver's color management (ie turn it off). My impression is that the Canon driver color management is not being turned off correctly which leads to double profiling and thus inaccurate colors... The weird part is that selecting a color profile from C1 leads to inconsistent behaviours in the canon driver: for example if I click in Print settings -> Printer Options -> Color Matching I get both options greyed out ("ColorSync" and "Canon color matching") which is expected but If I leave the exit box and get back again, "Canon color matching" becomes selected (but still greyed out). Same if I open the "Quality and Media" dialog box the first time, "Rendering Intent" is disabled (as expected) but it is enough to leave the dialog box and open it again to see this option active!! (ie no longer greyed out). Looks like a software bug in which the settings are forgotten or lost leading to a situation in which, somehow, the printer driver no longer remembers that its color management should be off (ie managed by the application) and thus takes over color management leading to a double profiling.
Not sure if anyone noticed that, but in my case lost too much time and money printing to finally understand what is happening. Now I am only printing from Canon's application, no longer trusting C1's color management.
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Looks like a Ventura bug.
If you search "double profiling" here it is explained
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/254519103
and also here
Pro printing from an app like C1/PS in Mac OS Ventura is a mess, best choice is to use Canon's own software which overrides the OS controls (or Epson's equivalent, QImage, etc)
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Is it possible that Canon has changed the driver to the AirPrint version? If so, that will prevent profiled printing when selecting the profile in C1. Check the colour management settings in the printer driver to see whether you can select ColorSync.
I had this problem with Ventura, but after downloading a driver from Canon's website, things improved. Now Canon is urging me to "upgrade(!)" to the AirPrint version.
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Hi TimJM, it looks to me more of a Ventura problem. It also happens with my Epson printer.
So when you select an ICC profile from C1, you expect C1 to turn off the printer driver color management, which it (technically) does. However, the driver might (randomly) reactivate its own color management workflow in certain cases while you are playing/setting driver settings - this is a bug because the driver should only activate its own color management when you select in C1 the "managed by printer" icc workflow.
That's what almost drive me crazy because I got a few prints that appeared to be properly profiled and other prints that suffered from double profiling. My findings are in line with what other users raised in different forums (the links I gave in my first post)
An AirPrint driver is the last thing to use for professional printing! In my case I double checked, reinstalled the Canon driver ensuring it is not the AirPrint based one but the problem persists. I won't lose more time trying to understand what is happening (ie what triggers the randomness) until Apple fixes this, so I'll rely on Canon's software which directly embeds/controls the printer driver.
As a side note Apple does not look committed to professional printing due to the many bugs in recent macOS releases like also the disappearing ICC profiles that I sometimes experience and reported on google for more than a year... so sad
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Hi Philippe,
Thank you for your informed and thorough explanation. I am very new to Ventura and am still learning!
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Hi Phillipe,
I also have eactly the same problem as you in Capture One Pro 23 under Ventura, with my Epson XP-950 printer. (i.e. Capture One Pro 23 is not remembering printer colour management settings between dialogue boxes and colour management settings change randomly.) I am also losing expensive paper and ink as a result of incorrect settings being applied. I also find Capture One Pro 23 forgets printing cell size and produces inaccurate margins. compared to previous versions. Unfortunately this is not simply a bug in Ventura, because I have none of these problems in Affinity Photo 2, which prints flawlessly from the same Mac, with the same Epson driver settings boxes. I can only advise to use a different application for printing, as I am now doing.
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Hi Stephen,
Thanks for your input. This is so sad to hear. Do the C1 support team follow these threads or is there another way to report such critical issues and bugs?
We can't afford to pay for such an expensive software (more than the whole adobe bundle) that cannot print...
Best,
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Hello Dear,
i had the same problem with the driver settings in C1. I tried to check the BOX under the driver version in my EPSON driver and it works. The Settings are presented a little confusing now, but therefore all settings in the driver are saved and not changed by C1 anymore and my prints are fine with my own ICC profiles.
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Hello
Thank you for the workaround! Hope though they still fix it as the available driver features (not just the UI) are different when I rely on this, at least for the canon driver.
Best
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I too am still having problems with printing from C1P on Ventura. Adjust the settings in C1P's Print Settings, then click on Print, and I find that the settings have changed. Select a printer profile in C1, click on Print, and then look at Printer Settings. Very often you find Epson Color Controls is is now selected with no option to change to Colorsync. To revert to the required behaviour, I have had to reset the printer service. Tiresome!
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Does not look they really care, C1's support...
I wonder... How come a professional and very expensive digital darkroom solution, cannot reliably print in 2023? It should have been one of C1's support first priorities to look into this issue and fix it, involving Apple's support directly if need be.
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