PERFORMANCE ON M2 TERRIBLE !!!! – FIX PLEASE!
THE PERFORMANCE OF CAPTURE ONE ON BRAND NEW MAC M2 MAX IS APPALLING!!!! I HAVE MAXED OUT MACBOOK PRO AND THE PROGRAM IS WORKING LIKE ON WINDOS 95!!!
YOU GUYS NEED TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, IT'S UNBELIEVABLE HOW BAD IT IS ON 6 GRAND 96GB RAM MACBINE MACHINE.
THANKS
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Official comment
We now have two Support tickets regarding slow slider movement on Apple Silicon Macs. We are looking into it. If you file a support ticket, please add information on size of viewed photo (pixel dimensions and bit depth), as well as your screen setup, as that is relevant for performance in this context.
- Number and native resolution of screens
- Scaling setting (take a screenshot of System Settings > Displays)Regarding the main other issue that is discussed in this thread, JPG export speed: If you are unhappy with it, please make an improvement request in https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/topics/6431248131613?sort_by=votes and vote it up.
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Not being multi-threaded and unable to use multiple cores or efficiently use the GPU would detract from performance but can someone add some details as to the specifics of where performance is affected?
What in Capture One performs poorly? In what way? On what device? Configured how? Are there objective measures of performance in comparing Capture One to Lightroom, or Capture One to itself on M1, M2, or Intel Macs of various configuration for RAM, GPU and mass storage?
Knowing the statistics would help those of us contemplating buying a new Mac better than a general impression.
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Back History:
I used an intel i7 x7820x 8-core Windows PC with a Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8GB Video card. That was the smoothest and most efficient performance of Capture One I've ever used - back in late 2017 through early 2020. It was significantly smoother and faster than my old 2009 Mac Pro and 2015 MacBook Pro - not surprising.When I moved back to Apple with the 8-core 5K iMac, with the Radeon Pro 580X 8GB GPU, it was literally almost spec for spec identical with the Windows 7820x workstation, I was expecting similar performance. It wasn't. It was slower in performance in terms of rendering thumbnails, and slower at exporting files. It was also jittery - the sliders were not nearly as smooth and effortless as my custom build Windows 10 Pro workstation. The sliders were....jumpy.
Now that I have Mac Studio, the same issues persist as far as smoothness. It still feels jumpy. The sliders aren't smooth. If you move the exposure slider, you have to wait for the effect of the slider movement to catch-up. The PC sliders (especially noted on the exposure sliders) on the Intel i7 7820x where instantaneous and buttery smooth.
Pre-Apple on Silicone, Lightroom used to be much slower in terms of imports, rendering and exporting files. It never made efficient use of GPU acceleration, much less multiple threads/multiple cores. Lightroom and Photoshop were all based on single or double core processing with high clock speeds. Capture One had a definitive performance gain over Lightroom with their "GPU hardware acceleration".
Now, with Apple Silicone, Adobe is not only making use of GPU acceleration, they're also leveraging multiple cores - and scaling them appropriately.
If you don't follow Art Is Right on Youtube, you probably should.
Real world bench marks from ArtIsRight...
MacOS Venture 13.4
Lightroom Classic (version 12.3/12.4) Export - full acceleration
1000 Nikon D850 (45MP) RAW to JPEG - GPU and CPU based task
M1 Max 10/24, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 9m 4s
M1 Ultra 20/48, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 4m 48s
M2 Max 12/30, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 6m 57s
M2 Ultra 24/60, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 4m 3s
Lightroom CC (version 6.3.1 and 6.4) Export
1000 Nikon D850 (45MP) RAW to JPEG - GPU and CPU based task
M1 Max 10/24, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 7m 42s
M1 Ultra 20/48, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 4m 8s
M2 Max 12/30, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 5m 50s
M2 Ultra 24/60, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 3m 45s
Capture One (Version 16.2.13) Export
1000 Nikon D850 (45MP) RAW to JPEG (fullsize) - Hardware Acceleration/GPU Export
M1 Max 10/24, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 22m 27s
M1 Ultra 20/48, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 18m 17s
M2 Max 12/30, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 18m
M2 Ultra 24/60, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 16m 57s
....Barely a minute difference here, between the M2 Max and M2 Ultra options. That's ridiculous.
Not only is Capture One significantly slower in performance, Capture One doesn't scale remotely close from 24core GPU to 48 core GPU... I won’t even bother suggesting anything about the CPU, since that doesn’t seem to be in play at all with C1P.
When the M1 Max base Mac Studio with LR out-performs the M2 Ultra with Capture One Pro by nearly 9 minutes, that should be embarrassing….
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Jack W We're all on the same team here, just trying to sort out a long-standing issue.
Others and I have referred several times to Youtuber ArtisRight. He's arguably the most in-depth tester of CaptureOne, Lightroom, Photoshop, and Final Cut Pro. He recently realigned his testing procedures, including many M1, M2, and now M3 machines. The depth and breadth of testing for photo apps on Apple silicon is unmatched. He's been reporting the same issues for a few years: suboptimal use of extra cores, almost no scaling with increased cores, etc. in C1. The export stats for 1000 photos show this very clearly. He is using 15+ Macs in various configurations. This and user reports in this forum should count for something. May I suggest the developers contact this guy, at least?
It worries me to read your "40000 users don't seem to have a problem" argument. Firstly, not every user is a pro, and even if they are, they might be on intel, or they may not have to perform tasks in volumes where bad performance and non-scaling are an issue. Secondly, not every user is willing to spend a few hours to give feedback in user forums. Lastly, are you saying that you collect very broad user stats all the time for all tasks that show export times – to refer to just this one clear problem – that are in line with Lightroom (or better) and that for those users, many more or all cores are being used all the time? In other words, are the reports here and the test from ArtisRight outliers?
Even if this were the case, and if I were in marketing at C1, I'd contact ArtisRight mighty fast to help him correct these freak-outlier bugs on his dozen test machines because I'm sure many more people see his tests than these forum posts. And they do so to decide whether or not, to commit to C1.
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craig stodola Hi Craig, I am not implying anything with regard to your or ArtisRights' facts – as should be clear from my previous posts. I understand your frustration – and those of others who suffer abmissal performance in some parts of the app. I myself am postponing decisions on buying an M2 - or even M3 - desktop because of the lack of clear communication – see further.
What I did suggest is that C1 preps a scripted package that allows us to perform controlled and uniform tests with a set of files (a few hundred would be enough, different formats) and a procedure to setup the environment. The resulting screen recordings would be sent back, together with all relevant system info. ArtisRight is performing quite a number of tests, but from a dev perspective, you need many more, e.g., individual image manipulations involving the sliders, as is shown by your data. Such an approach would mean C1 can have test data that are not only standardized but also prepped by them therefore generating irrefutable intel from dozens of configurations.
I have been involved in large development projects for two decades. From that experience, I know developers – and project managers and quality control people – need to be fed unquestionable, detailed, and structured data.
Preparing such a package would require somewhere between 10 and 20 man-days. (Including research, scripting, copywriting, project management etc.) Ideally, there would also be a user poll to collect information on the most prominent problems and even a few Zoom interviews with a few power users, including ArtisRight. This is a limited effort that would result in a gold mine of data, resulting in better prioritization, faster bug fixing, and thus higher customer satisfaction. As I've said in earlier posts in this thread, non-communication and uncertainty are worse than realistic expectation management. A clear and concise dashboard in the support section might do wonders, and it's not that difficult to set up.
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Overall, I'm disappointed in the performance of Capture One Pro compared to Lightroom Classic on the new Apple Silicone chips. Apple doesn't even have a 4-core Mac available in it's line-up anymore, they're all 8-core and up, and Capture One is refusing to utilize multiple cores (at all) along with their GPU acceleration to improve it's overall performance in terms of speed and smoothness.
It's just lazy...2 -
A few months later nothing has changed. On my M2 Max Studio only 1 or 2 cores are used during C1 image operations =/
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@JackW - It's not a matter of the Developers providing technical support here. It's a matter of them using this forum as a resource and being aware of user issues. Technically Capture One still works.
The performance of Capture One sucks compared to it's top competitor - especially when it comes to exporting images. It shouldn't be exceedingly difficult for them to figure out that they're not utilizing 7 of the 8-performance cores and address this disadvantage without a support ticket.
If they literally need users to spell this out for them, then it's an epic awareness failure on their part. ...Not to mention it's an epic failure on the Marketing department, considering they should be monitoring their top competitor's performance standards, and figure out where they have shortfalls so they can stay competitive.
Even with ArtIsRight's benchmarks, which are a fantastic resource in and of itself; At the very least, Capture One should own a subscription to Adobe Lightroom, and be able to test your software vs. theirs to find performance shortcomings and or learn new features, or figure out what you're both missing which you can add to make Capture One a better solution.
I do want to add: From a marketing stand point, Art Is Right's YouTube Channel is growing. His performance tests are now grabbing between 20k and 40k views. ...and he's comparing Lightroom and Capture One side by side. And he's showing Adobe is tripling Capture One terms of exporting performance. This may not seem like it matters, but there are upwards of 40 thousand users who being swayed which software to buy/switch to as much as deciding on which computer to buy as a result of Art's performance tests.
....I feel like Capture One should be paying me for this information...2 -
I have submitted a ticket. With this info. Including this screen capture. I haven't heard a thing a word...
If you're telling me, they're looking at this screen grab, and not seeing the problem, or they're running tests, seeing this same grab, and pretending it's not a problem. Then THAT'S the biggest problem.2 -
craig stodola Where have you been asked to create 3 separate support tickets and where did somebody say "we didn't get it"?
I can see that you haven't actually submitted any support requests, at least from this profile. How are you getting in touch with us and is it perhaps with a different email address/profile?
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In the spirit of contributing to the community, would it be possible for C1 to provide a test set and script we could use to perform? I'm thinking along the lines of, e.g., 500 RAW and JPEG images of various sizes and a written script with several tasks (imports, exports, but possibly also moving sliders, copying changes to all pictures, merging a panorama,.. etc.) – This could even be scripted in AppleScript so there is not much need for manual work by the tester and it would provide valuable data for dev based on a wide range of configurations.
I am including other tasks than just imports and exports here because it seems to me that individual manipulations are more relevant for many users if those are buggy on some SoC machines than raw export speeds (even if, for some of us, the latter may equally be an important bottleneck).
I'd be happy to perform those tests with screen recordings on my two machines (I have a 2015 5k iMac 27" with 40 GB RAM and a 2022 M2 Macbook Air with 24 GB RAM).
Just my 2c
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My personal experience with silicon chips and Capture One has only ever been a pleasant one. I can't comment on the individual experiences you're all having, but you should absolutely make our support team aware about this.
However, the 16.2.2 update we released on Tuesday should address the memory leak issue. Download the update and if you're still experiencing issues, let the team know.
Have any of you also tried running Capture One via Rosetta? Do you see an increase in performance? If so, then there's definitely something there that indicates Capture One isn't running as it should on M1/M2 chips. You can open an app using Rosetta by right-clicking on it, selecting "Get Info" and then ticking the box which says "Open using Rosetta"
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ArtisRight on YouTube probably has the most detailed reviews based on standardized tests of C1, LR, PS etc. on Intel and Apple Silicon Macs. He continuously points out the lack of optimization of C1 for Apple hardware. One of his remarks is that he would love Capture One being optimized for non-tethered use (via a preference in the settings I suppose); i.e., he suspects that some performace penalties arise from its roots.
Maybe C1 is already in touch with this guy, but if not, he could provide constructive feedback to help improve certain issues I am sure.
I have a Late 2015 27" iMac 4 GHz i7 quad core with 40 GB RAM and SSD and performance is decent although sluggish sometimes when working on an image (I don't care so much for import speeds). Seeing the lack of progress in performance in the above mentioned reviews I am not inclined in investing 3 or 4k euros in an M2 Pro Mac Mini or Max Studio plus a 27" monitor to see only minor improvements.
It's not that Adobe and Apple are best palls either – but Adobe, and, more to the point, other much smaller app developers, manage to squeeze much more performance out of the SoC-based Macs. We're nearing the 3rd generation of Apple chips and if things remain as they are, and as much as I prefer C1 over the other options, I'll regrettably have to jump ship...
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Shame on me for updating my machine and using the latest software updates too ...
I can't edit a single image in C1 without at least a half second lag when adjusting a simple slider like exposure. I'm a wedding photographer and you can imagine how infuriating it would be to try to adjust multiple sliders in a single image, sitting and waiting for the screen to update after I move the slider that long for each adjustment is appalling. And then try to do that across 850+ images for a single wedding gallery. No thanks, I'm out!
Something must be done to fix this issue - I'm back to Lightroom (again) until this can be sorted out.
My machine / specs:
MacbookPro M2 Max, 32gb memory, 2tb ssd, Sonoma 14.0
Capture One Pro, build 16.3.0.76, using Sessions, applying a custom Style which includes an ICC profile from The Archetype Process, and editing the image from there.
Happy to provide more details on what I'm doing workflow-wise if that's helpful.
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Jacky Jacky - Is this thread being ignored by the developers because the users haven't submitted a ticket - even though this is a Capture One "Support forum". Then what's the point of the messageboard?
And you're saying ArtIsRight's performance issues in comparison with either LR option is wrong?
There upwards of 24 cores - soon to be 32 cores on these new Apple M chips, and Capture One Pro is saturating the 2 efficiency cores and about 70% saturation of a single performance core on 10-core M1 Max chip.
Does this seem like an efficient way to use the resources of both the GPU cores and the CPU cores.The export below is from 1000+ Nikon Z6 II files.
Edit: Just updated to 16.2.6.7 and rebooted my Mac Studio - and this update is less efficient at exporting than 16.0.1.17 - (it's slower)Art Is Right's performance numbers (as posted above)...
Lightroom CC (version 6.3.1 and 6.4) Export
1000 Nikon D850 (45MP) RAW to JPEG - GPU and CPU based taskM1 Max 10/24, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 7m 42s
M1 Ultra 20/48, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 4m 8s
Capture One (Version 16.2.13) Export
1000 Nikon D850 (45MP) RAW to JPEG (fullsize) - Hardware Acceleration/GPU ExportM1 Max 10/24, 32GB RAM, 512GB SSD = 22m 27s
M1 Ultra 20/48, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD = 18m 17s
Lightroom is far more efficient than Capture One Pro at import and export. ...it would be fantastic if we could always export files at night, and walk away. But some of us need to export multiple large batches during the day. I'd rather it take 5-7 minutes than 20-25 minutes.1 -
Others and I have posted references to ArtisRight's testing in the past as well. A returning remark from Art is that he wonders whether the performance issue may be due to its origins in tethering. Almost every video he suggests C1 might add a toggle to set-up the program as a batch program vs a tethered one. I am not a developer, so I can't judge if this makes sense from an architectural point of view. I also wonder whether intel-era architectural decisions are not hampering the software to exploit Apple silicon to its fullest potential. Another question is whether support for older, i.e., intel-based, Macs isn't hampering both the speed of development as well as the performance (on Apple silicon). Also, at what point is C1 going to stop supporting non-Apple SoC with future releases? (If there is a performance and/or economic penalty for keeping intel-Macs supported in the latest version, isn't this a potential win?)
I also agree with craig stodola's remark:
Is this thread is being ignored by the developers because the users haven't submitted a ticket - even though this is a Capture One "Support forum". Then what's the point of the messageboard?
We have had to wait a long time before getting a clear answer on the potential support for Hasselblad, and although it's not satisfactory to some of us, at least it has brought clarity. I suggest C1 would have transparent and timely communication concerning these performance issues as well as the roadmap for Apple hardware support. This (perceived or factual?) non-communication is further fueling frustration and will do more harm than good, e.g., causing users to lose trust and increase abandonment of the platform. In a previous post, I already suggested getting in touch with ArtisRight. He seems very knowledgeable about photography tech, and he is a no-BS in-depth tester of the major apps on Apple SoC.
Maybe C1 could also be supported by some of us acting as beta testers?
Just my 2c
Erik
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Art Is Right - Latest export benchmarks with updated software, including the M3 Max chips
Lightroom CC 7 (using CPU + GPU + RAM) Export
1000 - Nikon D850 (45MP) RAW to JPEG fullsize (240ppi)
16MBP M1 Max 10/32 64GB - 6m 57s
MS M1 Ultra 20/48 64GB - 4m 10s
16MBP M3 Max 16/40 48GB - 4m 34s
Capture One 16.3.0.76 - GPU acceleration/hardware export
1000 - Nikon D850 (45MP) RAW to JPEG fullsize (240ppi)
16MBP M1 Max 10/32 64GB - 22m 27s
MS M1 Ultra 20/48 64GB - 21m 6s
16MBP M3 Max 16/40 48GB - 18m 46s
There's so much good with Capture One, then they totally sandbag it when it comes to multiple core utilization. ...and they charge $200 for a loyalty user upgrade.
I've been using C1P since version 5. And their best perpetual license "loyalty program" extends to those who bought the latest license within the last year - aka, even a 1-time buyer. Not a loyal 14 year user.1 -
FWIW Craig Stodola's screen shot a few hours ago is more than enough information to work with.
It shows the computer wasn't been taxed by other processes and it shows that only a few of the available cores were being used, with the others effectively sleeping.
It's not that C1 Pro on an Apple Studio M2 Max or Ultra doesn't work – no one is saying that. It's just that with all the cores and RAM available (in my case 64GB), it should fly. It doesn't. Same throughput as my 2018 Intel i7 Mac Mini.
Nowhere left to hide Phase One! Fix this. Now.
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I tried again today. 3 second delay when moving the exposure slider on a 200 mb raw.
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John Arborio We're particularly interested if you've noticed the sliders slowing down.
Please see my comments above. I can also make a support request on your behalf if you'd prefer.
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Created the logs and submitted the ticket just now. Wonder what the next excuse for not addressing this problem will be?
BTW, here is a link to an "ArtIsRight" Youtube video where he tests the Silicon Macs and notices there doesn't appear to be any optimisation:
Scroll ahead to the 13 minute mark where he makes his point.
We're not imagining this. The new Silicon Macs are powerful machines. FCP, Affinity Photo and (I hear) Lightroom all roar on them. Not C1 Pro though. Fix. This. Now.
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Lightroom Classic screams on all Apple Silicon Macs. Instant response from adjustment sliders.
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Not every wedding I shoot - but this year it was 6 times. I generally try to keep the files lower than 800, but I rarely turn in less than 800 anymore. So out of 20-25 weddings per year, I'm finishing 800-1000 images. But if there are larger groups of sequences I want to keep, then generally, the number is higher.
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Your first comment was:
"in 40+ years, you've never exported 1000"
Follow by:
"So by these metrics (assuming they’re accurate, testing properly optimized in all cases, etc), you’re talking about < 5 min per day assuming you export 800 photos every day, but more like once every 2 weeks?"
Passive Aggressive much?1 -
Erik V Sounds interesting, thanks for the suggestion. I'll raise it with our release manager.
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Eric has a good point. The power of any analysis is dependent of the number of trials run. If a large cohort of users run the test package, the vast majority should get the results expected by Capture One, assuming the beta testing was robust enough to test the elements of the test package. Exceptions should fall into two categories, obvious problems affecting all users or those affecting a few. In the case of the few, a standardized test should show a common thread with a problem (e.g., hardware and software interactions). Perhaps beta testing should include this sort of systematic testing.
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Strange, that wasn't me posting that. It was someone named Erik V, yet it's attributed to me? I've never posted here!
PS. C1 works great on my M2. :D
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Ah, that makes sense. I was a bit concerned that I was hacked for a minute. Thanks for letting me know. :) Good luck with getting your issue fixed.
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Hello everyone, I would now like to take part in the discussion. I also just created a support ticket. For fashion and ecom shoots we produce 1000-2000 images every day. We are doing this since years and have to export them. I'm currently working with the M3 Max and I was hugely disappointed that the performance of the M1 Pro wasn't noticeably different. It's sad that after 3 generations the chips are still not being used properly. As a professional user, I expect this from high-priced software. And it's a bad joke that we have to discuss when to export 1000 images.
I haven't read every single post, so I hope this is not a double posts: When I start turning of the GPU Support, it starts using the CPU. So it seems, that there is no combination of CPU and GPU usage.
Spec:
Sonoma 14.3, Apple M3 Max, 36GB Ram, Capture One 16.3.4.5
I did a TEST Export 1248 RAW Files 100% JPG / 50MB each file
Lightroom
CPU 90%
GPU 90%6 min 44 sec. (100% total means 1% = 4,04 sec)
Capture One
CPU 13%
GPU 70%23 min 47 sec. (353%)
means that capture one ist 253% slower compare to Lightroom and this means C1 waste a lote of performance (maybe in all functions...)
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If you're referring to the memory leak bug that we're actively working on fixing, we released an update an hour ago that should address this bug. Download it here: https://www.captureone.com/en/account/download
You were also not the only one affected by this bug. See here: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/10401192573085
Download the update and let us know in the post above whether you experience better performance.
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