If I have a RAW and a JPG with the same file name, I want to list only the RAW.
Lightroom Classic: Preferences > General > "Treat JPG files next to RAW files as separate photos."
This is a highly important feature request. I posted this request once on the forum.
I am a new user but also a professional designer of product development and UI.
If RAW and JPG of the same photo are in the same file, I would like to see a function implemented to show only the RAW.
This is a feature that has been available in Adobe Lightroom classic since the beginning.
Without this feature, I may not use CaptureONE in the future.
It is a very basic feature and a basic feature that professionals need.
I would like to see it implemented as soon as possible.
I will copy and paste the forum content as I wrote it.
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What problem do you see this solving?
Significant improvement in visibility and work efficiency.
When was the last time you were affected by this lack of functionality, or specific tool?
I have been a long time Lightroom (LrC) user and purchased C1 3 months ago. I kept looking for this feature but it doesn't seem to exist. It is a very basic feature. Thought layers and work stages are very different from the way file types are currently selected. I am very surprised that such a basic feature has not been implemented.
Are you using any workarounds or other solutions to achieve your goals in Capture One?
The solution is to not shoot the JPGs at the same time.
Another is to move the JPGs to a subfolder after shooting.
But these are hopelessly cumbersome with other basic OS file management.
Changing the file management method just for C1 is just too much work and time consuming to be practical.
The reason for saving JPGs at the same time is for backup and immediate distribution or preview.
Since JPGs are common files, they can be given to clients as samples immediately.
Also, RAW files don't even show thumbnails in their basic state on either Mac or Win, and unless you put a RAW file and a JPG file with identical photo content in the same folder, you can't tell what kind of photo it is from the RAW file alone.
I do video, photography, music production, and design, and have solved similar OS-standard inconveniences with other media in similar ways.
In managing files for other genres of media, I get around this by putting files of different formats and common compressed formats in the same folder. Almost all major media production and editing applications have already implemented similar measures.
Are you happy to be contacted further about this suggestion or request?
Yes
It is a feature that is completely lacking in the current C1.
Let me explain again what I am trying to do.
If RAW and JPG file names are the same, then you need the ability to hide the existence of JPGs at the application system level.
I have worked on hardware (UI and idea design for toys sold worldwide) and web UI/UX.
Basic design knowledge and experience requires a slightly different layer of experience and perspective than the average graphic designer or professional photographer has.
My experience and perspective is closer to that of a software developer and I can pinpoint key problems and solutions.
As someone with such a basic perspective, I can say that this is a basic feature that is essential for professional photo development software.
For example, it is most important when you have cameras that shoot a mixture of RAW and JPG, or only JPGs.
If there are many cameras and shooters, it is also useful for mirrorless SLRs, smartphones, inexpensive compact digital cameras, action cameras, etc.
In such cases, showing or hiding only RAW or only JPGs will not work.
The reason is that in such cases, hiding RAW only or JPG only may result in missing valuable data captured in JPG only.
It also reduces the mistake of editing a JPG by mistake when a RAW file is available.
The thumbnail list allows you to see exactly all the photos that were taken.
I found the method you linked to and several other solutions.
But as mentioned above, they are not solutions to the underlying problem that almost all users face.
This is probably one of the main reasons why professional users from LrC semi-professional and above to those shooting with several people cannot migrate to C1.
It is natural that each software has its own evolution and operating procedures.
However, it is a basic feature that should be included in any professional photo development software with file management capabilities.
And perhaps the program only needs to create one check box item in the settings. If you have knowledge of database management, you should be able to add this function easily.
Without this basic functionality in C1, many users will not be able to migrate from LrC.
This is a feature that is only needed by professionals that needs to be implemented now, given the current camera features, market and usage.
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Maybe I’m not parsing your statement well, but can you not just filter to show only the file types you want? In the very rare situations I shoot both raw and JPEG (mostly I shoot only raw), I can just filter the file type. That said, maybe I’m missing something.
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Dear Raymond,
Thank you for your reply.
Yes and not Yes.Perhaps many of those who have worked within the ecosystem with C1 at its core may not understand the importance of this.
Many studio photographers may not grasp the importance of my proposal. That is why it is still not implemented in C1.
If you think about it only for personal use, then you may have little trouble with it.However, in situations where multiple people are shooting with completely different cameras, such as a business camera and a consumer camera, or work and travel records in situations where recording media fail or are lost and recording capacity must be conserved, there are many "important photos that had to be taken in JPG on a dare" mixed in There are many projects. In these cases, the current C1's selective viewing feature is not compatible with editing.
I am a private photographer and videographer by trade and in my personal life. For many editing tasks, I need to be able to perform basic functions within C1 that I am requesting to be improved.
It is a pretty basic function and it is the C1 that needs to be equipped internally.
It can be circumvented in several other ways. But all those other methods are impractical. It takes a lot of time and effort to move files, export them, and manage them reliably by eye and manually with different software.
I know several professional photographers who have had to move from C1 to Lightroom because of the lack of this functionality.
Currently, when it comes to many projects in this situation, Lightroom can reduce the work time to less than half.
This time I mistakenly installed its current feature, the ability to switch between RAW and JPG views.
If this feature is not implemented, I will have to leave C1 alone and go back to Lightroom Classic.
And this is a big reason why many Lightroom users cannot move to C1.
*I have been using Lightroom 4 and 5 on an older OS and older Mac and PC because I have not accepted a subscription for years. I do not want to go back to my current Lightroom subscription..0 -
OK, I’m still not sure precisely what you’re after. Good luck! If you can be clear and convince enough people to upvote what you’re after, maybe the C1 team will prioritize it.
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Example:
When a professional wedding photographer has finished shooting a wedding in RAW and suddenly a few days later relatives bring in JPGs taken with smartphones or compact cameras and request to use them for album production, etc.
If you lead a photo shoot to document a trip, and similar to the above, you receive a large number of JPGs that you want to use photos from the client side.
I don't do the kind of work described above, but even today, for example, there are many projects in which a client or subcontractor submits JPGs instead of RAWs or an action camera that cannot shoot in RAW, and the client or subcontractor has to select and adjust images from several thousand photos by mixing those JPGs and RAWs and exporting them in a hurry. We have seen many projects that require a mix of JPG and RAW images from thousands of photos.Do you think it is necessary to use Lightroom Classic for work and C1 for personal use?
I would prefer to develop all my photos in C1 alone.
Moreover, this is not a difficult feature to implement. Just add database management and file name and Exif matching management.
The UI is also just a single checkbox in the preferences or on the edge of the main window.0 -
I have not fully mastered English.
If someone who can understand this feature agrees with me, I would like to rewrite my first comment to explain it more simply and convey its importance.0 -
Lots of professionals use Capture One. It’s not trying to be like Lr in many cases, thankfully. Otherwise, I’d use Lr. C1 works a certain way, it has a particular point of view and anyone can work with both raw and JPEGs of the same name if they need to. I do think sometimes people coming from Lr want it to be like Lr and sometimes, yes, maybe it makes sense to bring in some capabilities, but because I can work with raws and JPEGs of the same name right now, not sure there’s anything to add. Smart Albums, filters and the like. That’s why I’m asking for more clarification. I feel I can work the way you suggest today I think. Not perhaps the Lr way, but the C1 way. Is it possible for you to illustrate what you are trying to do with screenshots? I’m not trying to be difficult, I promise 😀. But you are clearly trying to do something you don’t think you can do in C1 and that you think you can only do in Lr. And you may be 100% right! But personally I’m not getting it - and that’s OK (I’m not your target audience) but it may help others to illustrate further if you wish to advocate for a feature. I will allow I might be dense too. 😊
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I understand your opinion. I use DaVinci Resolve, Final Cut Pro X, Premiere Pro, After Effects, and Motion5 for video editing, and Studio One, Logic Pro, and Live for DAW depending on the situation. Of course, for graphic design, I also use Rhinoceros, Blender, and fusion360 for 3D modeling software.
For each job I always have at least two applications available and ready to use.I have suggested that the "minimum basic functionality" is what I want to see implemented as soon as possible.
It may be difficult to explain more than this in words.
I will write a detailed explanation at the end. If you do not understand, I will produce graphics or video for presentation later.1, Currently C1 can display RAW and JPG, but users of C1 should display only RAW. Professional users who work where file sharing with the outside world is important, including myself, shoot in RAW + JPG.
2, In that case, if you hide the JPG files, you can show only RAW files. However, if you do so, you will not be able to see important photos that exist only as JPG files.
3，If you display both RAW and JPG as a countermeasure, now all JPG files adjacent to the file you want to check only RAW will also be displayed.There are still differences among RAW, RAW+JPG, JPG, and each photographer's shooting policy and each camera's functions.
Therefore, there are many opportunities to have to work with a mix of files from many different photographers and different types of cameras.
In such cases, if there is a function to display only RAW if RAW and JPG are the same photo, only one of each photo can be displayed for error-free file management and selection.0 -
I think your use case is a mix of photos, some are only as jpg files, some are raw files, others maybe are available in both file formats. And you probably want a feature to stack photos which belong together so that if you have both formats only the raw will be shown, and you can switch so that only the jpg will be shown?
(btw. in that case I would move the jpgs from the jpg+raw pairs into another folder and probably never look at it again, put the raw files and the jpg files from the jpg-only cameras into one folder and be happy. Export into an output folder, not into the same folder as the original.
You have used thousands of words and still I am nor sure what you want, but luckily this feature exists in LR (if I read you right) so tell us and maybe show us (screenshots or links to LR documentation) exactly what LR feature this is. Raymond's idea about the illustration is great too.
EDIT: I've written my post before I saw your last post, so I think the situation of the files is more clear now. You want to hide the jpgs which have a corresponding raw file, right? Actually, in such a mixed files situation, why are the jpgs or the raws so important to you, just move them away or even delete them, I don't get that this is a problem so big that you cannot use C1.
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Lightroom Classic: Preferences > General > "Treat JPG files next to RAW files as separate photos."
This is not naivete, it is a necessary basic feature.
It is unfortunate that you guys are writing aggressive posts against me.I am genuinely hoping for an improvement.
Each software is a tool, no software I love more than my emotions.
And with this functionality not implemented in C1, it will limit its operation as a business software.
I believe that is not good for the users who love C1.0 -
My apologies if I hurt your emotions, that is not my intention.
I just do not necessarily agree with you that C1 is not quite usable for private or business because this feature is missing.
Cheers
BeO0 -
> I just do not necessarily agree with you that C1 is not quite usable for private or business because this feature is missing.
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And with this functionality not implemented in C1, it will limit its operation as a business software.
？？？If you are constantly working with a mixture of RAW and JPG, this is the reason why you cannot choose C1.
As mentioned above, I know several professional photographers who actually had to move from C1 to LrC.This is the only feature I would really like to see implemented.
If only this feature could be implemented, I think it would bring back a lot of clients.
There are many other small details that I would like to see requested, but that may be a matter of my familiarity with the system, so this is an area that needs continued verification.
However, I am troubled by the fact that if this function is not implemented, my work efficiency will be significantly reduced.0 -
Just to add my experience:
When I (tried) to move my workflows away from Adobe and was switching to CO I was surprised too, that CO was not smart enough to "stack" an "sidecart JPG" to the RAW like Lr does since 2006. Just filtering out JPGs is a dumb workaround and does not do the job correctly:
-> not every JPG on the card has an accompanying RAW, so you would miss all the shots, which were for some reason only taken in jpg.
-> why shoot in "RAW+JPG mode" to begin with? As a cheap backup, just to be sure you have at least one good file of every shot in case there's file corruption. (this did save my bacon in the past at least once...)
I since stopped shooting dual (RAW+JPG) because it annoyed me so much and there was no indication that enough users requested it. As we see now in this forum there are MANY "simple-to-implement" features which are tagged with not_currently_planned. So at least, thanks CO for the candor.
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I don't think this is a bad feature request, not at all, but I can live without it.
I separate JPGs from raws in different folders, if I have both formats jpg serves as a backup or sometimes out of interest I look at the jpg to get an idea for my raw development, and if I don't have the raws but only jpgs then they do come into another folder and I don't feel much restricted either.
But yes, I don't have this situation very often, mostly shooting either JPG or raw. And I did not migrate from LR so I adopted to C1 as it is.
Cheers
BeO1 -
Thank you for the additional clarifications. I think I sort of get the request a bit better now and I can imagine if people are used to it in Lr, they might want it in C1. I come to C1 from Aperture and I miss "stacks", and I'm encouraged by the "grouping" work they're doing on their new importer as maybe laying the groundwork for something like that, though with "Capture One flavor". All that said, I don't find that C1 missing stacks or this feature a particular show-stopper for me. There are many other things I want from Capture One ahead of something like this. But that's why there are feature requests - we can each get our wishes in the line :-).
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Thank you for your understanding.
In my case, in-camera recording in RAW + JPG is a must.
If you are dealing with 100 or so photos, you will have little or no problem.
However, if you are dealing with thousands of photos, you won't have time to export, sort, and adjust the development. If the shoot takes place outside the studio, the client will often want the JPG files on site.This problem can be solved with time and effort on the part of the user.
However, C1 cannot pay a guarantee for that work time. What if it lost money on the number of users? Perhaps the sales gained from that total time wasted would be greater than C1's sales.
With the addition of the features I am proposing, C1 could save time for all users.
And there will definitely be more C1 users who will feel comfortable migrating from LrC.0 -
I still don't understand the issue here, so apologies in advance if I am misunderstanding.
If you shoot RAW + JPG, I think that Capture One always treats the RAW and the JPG as separate files - there is no option to not do that as there is in Lightroom - in other words the LR option is always on in C1.
EDITED TO ADD - I am an occasional Lightroom user only, so forgive me if I have misunderstood what this Lightroom feature does.
So then you have choices as to how to handle the RAW and JPG files in Capture One.
- You can import both and then hide the JPGs unless or until you want to see them.
- You can display them side by side - in both name order and date order the RAW and the JPG will appear next to each other.
- You can change the sort order to file type (using the Extension option) to see the RAWs and the JPGs separately in the same folder.
- If you set the sort order to Name, you can batch rename images and Capture One can rename both the RAW and the JPG together in the same way. (Note that this only works in Name order.)
- You can get Capture One to import the RAWs and the JPGs to separate subfolders. In the dialog box you can use the Format token in the subfolder field and you will get separate RAW and JPG subfolders in your import destination.
Does any of that help?
Ian
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Thank you Ian san.
Lightroom Classic: Preferences > General > "Treat JPG files next to RAW files as separate photos."
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Your perception is correct.
The problem is projects where I have to deal simultaneously with photos recorded in both RAW and JPG and photos where only JPGs exist.
This type of work happens frequently in my line of work.Please implement this feature on/off.
That way you can handle projects that would be unmanageable in C1 and continue to attract people to migrate from LrC to C1 for the superior image quality and fine tuning.Your suggested examples are the same as some of the measures we have offered as examples in this thread. Those measures are of course possible.
But they only move the fundamental problem, "avoiding mistakes", from "mistakes in selection and confirmation" to "mistakes in file organization".
Perhaps many users who mainly use C1 are in an environment where they have never experienced the effectiveness and convenience of this feature of LrC in practice.
If a project involves developing and organizing thousands of photos, the selection and adjustment time and turnaround time will be long, and the possibility of mistakes occurring is very high.
Selection and confirmation errors can be countered, but file management on the OS raises and induces the possibility of mistakes.However, if only RAW files can be displayed in the case of RAW ± JPG files, and if they can be checked at the same time as JPG-only files, selection and confirmation errors can be avoided, and mistakes in file organization on the OS can also be avoided.
Above all, it will facilitate the workflow and greatly improve the total time required for the work.0 -
The problem can be solved by shooting only RAW or only JPGs, but that is a personal situation and choice.
To evacuate that between one user to another without being able to imagine the work environment and job description of the other is off the axis of the discussion.And currently, all cameras that can shoot RAW can record RAW + JPG.
The fact that this feature is viable in all cameras means that there are many users who need that feature.
It is each user's choice whether or not to use that camera feature, but the RAW + JPG recording method is implemented in all cameras.
Any professional photo development software that has file management capabilities needs to look forward to solving the problems that are occurring with this feature.I am a user, but I have been involved in product planning and design work that takes into account attractiveness, practicality, and safety as much as possible.
I am seriously suggesting the implementation of this feature from the perspective of a designer, not a user.It is up to the user to choose each and every function, but if a function that is available on all cameras capable of developing RAW triggers user error when developing, it is the designer's job to consider this as an area that needs to be improved and take countermeasures.
This is not the time to compare with LrC, but if C1 is developed as a developing software for business use, I would consider it necessary to judge it as an essential function in the current situation.0 -
May I suggest a simpler explanation by which rules the Lightroom way works (...ish):
IF one folder contains RAWs and JPGs with the same name, THEN display only the "better one" (aka RAW) in the browser. BUT include the JPG in file management tasks, as moving, renaming,...
AND
IF in the same folder there is a lone JPG without RAW, then display that instead.
End result: The browser displays just ONE photo of every shoot, it prefers RAW and displays JPG only as fallback where there is no corresponding RAW available. And file operations are done to both simultaneously.
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I do always find that it's about learning the tool. Personally, I rarely shoot raw+JPEG because I'm too much of a control freak on development and output. That said, I have literally no problem working with very large numbers of raws and JPEGs from corporate events and from different cameras from different photographers. I lose absolutely no time getting images out the door to people. Could the process be better? Absolutely, and that's where feature requests come in!
Rather than an argument that comes across (to me) as "I only know how to use a feature in Lr and I see that Capture One doesn't have it, therefore I can't work, and furthermore neither can others who only know the LrC workflow", try being outcome-based, leaving out dire predictions of Capture One's future :-).
Perhaps the better way is to state your perceived problem and the outcome you'd like. State why you don't feel you can solve it in Capture One (which means investing time learning the tool to learn what you can do), and why they should invest their limited development resources to move forward with the initiative. And the "why" shouldn't be "because all professionals use this feature" (clearly not the case) or "you'll get a lot more sales" (no one knows this) or "Lr has it (since 2007 or otherwise)". This is not terribly relevant since these are two totally different products with different histories and different philosophies. Choices in tools are great. There are many exceptional features in Capture One that are not in Lr, for example, and probably never will be.
State how it will improve your workflow in Capture One. State how it will speed time-to-market for photographers using Capture One. Capture One will be all over that if you can make that case. Because I don't come from Lr, because I can work with large numbers of JPEGs and raws (regardless of name) in Capture One today and because I am still not 100% clear on what the ask is, maybe work on stripping out the hyperbole and instead describing it from a functional standpoint. I think it could be a nice idea, I just can't get an absolutely clear sense of it. I think it's like the stacks analog from Aperture, but hard to say. I'd absolutely support that.
EDIT: I like Wolfgang Stoiber's explanation very much and I'd certainly support that. If that's what you (OP) are after, maybe try and work that language into the request. :-)
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Mr. Raymond,
Your opinion is valuable.
However, your previous posts make me feel that you just don't want to change your personal rules.However, what I am proposing does not change the functionality of C1.
It just adds one more feature.
It will not adversely affect your workflow at all.
It just adds one checkbox.You may love C1. You may also hate me and LrC. That is an emotional argument.
I view all software equally.
Both C1 and LrC are "tools" as you have stated.
But as it stands, C1 lacks one feature that is necessary for a tool.
As a product development designer, I have submitted improvement requests not only to C1 but to many other well-known software in many genres.
And when I submit a request for improvement, it is for an important feature.
There is one pillar missing in C1 that is important for all users.
That pillar may not be necessary for you or some users, but perhaps that pillar would make C1 much more useful.Your 1 user opinion is valuable. However, I feel that without experience with various large projects, you may not understand the importance of what I am suggesting here.
It is an area that small studios and individual users, even at any senior level, cannot see.In any case, perhaps no one would have a problem with this feature being added.
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The feature, as Wolfgang describes it, clearly and succinctly, without drama and hyperbole (which was unneeded), I'd totally support. I am a highly experienced senior technical leader, software developer and product architect delivering products everywhere from startups to mega-corps so I can definitely discuss if you wish. I have no personal feelings toward you one way or the other since I've never met you, and apologies - sincerely - if you took it otherwise.
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I am not a good English speaker.
I apologize again if that part caused misunderstanding.
Perhaps this explanation is difficult for C1 users even if their native language is English. It may also make them feel it is difficult to accept.Please have respect for others, imagine different environments and workflows other than your own, and discuss calmly.
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Pretty sure Adobe refers to this as “stacking”. Files with the same name, regardless of extension, are condensed into a single stack. Edit a stack and you edit the RAW by default. Double click a stack (as noted by an icon on the bottom of the thumbnail) and you expose all files in a stack. You can also manually stack files. 5 images in a pano + the merged file show or can be shown as a stack, for example.
I would love to see this implemented in Capture One.
I’m going to give our friend the benefit of the doubt as even I don’t English well and it’s the only language I speak. :)
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I quite clearly don’t communicate in English very well myself. 😀I agree that calmness is a good thing and as the particular feature request has gotten clearer, I’m all for it. I will agree with the OP too that there are indeed multiple professional workflows and ways to achieve a given outcome and that no tool is the arbiter.
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I fully agree with Raymond and Brian, and I think Shingo you totally misunderstood us, there is no emotion involved, and nothing against you. Raymond explained this very well in this long post, much better than I could (English is not my mother tongue) but you did not understand him or how you can convince people, either us or the company. Make a use case, instead of trying to make a business case. Unless you can prove the business case (e.g. in number of users migrating from LR to C1).
I absolutely would like to see stacking too (but I can work without).
Cheers,
BeO0 -
I do not bring emotion into the discussion.
I do not bring pride.
Pride of all kinds is the greatest enemy of improvement.
It is the root of all problems, both within the community and within the individual.
For nearly 20 years, I have provided the best design by not bringing pride into it.So here I am, explaining exactly the same thing, but not conveying what I wanted to convey. That is that I must continue to carry a universal handicap in this proposal and discussion. That is evidence of the emotions and pride involved.
Regardless of the topic of the proposal, as long as there are those who consider me a hindrance, my proposal loses its essence with my presence. It is absurd, but what I am seeking is an improvement. My presence is not the critical factor.I have won many jobs with my presentations, but they are already worthless here.
However, I am convinced of the content field importance of this proposal.
So I am hoping that someone other than me will make the proposal.
Or, I strongly hope that the C1 developers will implement it if they understand the importance of it, because I don't mind if it is explained by someone other than me.I have recently lost a family member and am very tired.
I am just too busy to see what is ahead and have no friends to support me.
I have decided that I cannot bear the burden of inefficiency any longer than I currently am.I am sorry that I just purchased it, but I have completely changed my mind and will continue to use LrC until C1 has this feature.
I find this place to be as heterogeneous as the underground forums of the internet.
I believe that good development means first identifying the opinions of each user within the development department and making suggestions to the general public before final implementation.
Otherwise, it means that the developer does not have the ability to develop.
If that is the situation, there is no future for software that lacks the opinions, will and enthusiasm of such captains.
And many general users often cannot imagine the use environment of others. (I am not talking about you guys, but my solid perception after experiencing many hits and many failures).
Also, aspirational discussions on the Internet are rare.
This is because in the current Internet arena, individuals can easily direct their selfish opinions and feelings toward others from a very personal, rather than a social, standpoint.
This is a cause of difficulty for professional and future-oriented exchanges that I know of. And that is what Internet forums are for.
Unless there is someone within the C1 developers who is willing to tackle this with enthusiasm, there will not be a good outcome.
If we do things because we are told to, or because they are suggested, then the product will not continue to be used.
I am only one user, but I also feel invisible feelings and thoughts that words alone cannot hide.
I also know that what I am proposing is not the right concession in this kind of voting system by only users who need to log in.I have growing doubts as a product developer about the C1 development policy system itself.
I am very tired of it.
I am temporarily giving up hope for C1. Good bye.0
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