Printing
When I print, ( printer managed or Capture One managed) I have to boost the brightness to 20 or the exposure to 0.9 for the print to match the screen. This happens on my calibrated display as well as my Mac Studio Display and was true in previous versions of Capture One. Boosting brightness or exposure in that range decreases saturation and contrast a bit as viewed on the monitor, although not so much on the print, so it does not seem like the best approach.
Is this a printer calibration problem? If this is a gamma setting issue, how do I set it.
Also, is there a way for my photo printer to show as the default in Capture One instead of my other printer, which is the default in the MacOS system settings?
I can get good quality prints from Capture One, but setting it up is not as straight forward as it could be and Capture Ones print dialog takes some getting used to.
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Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion and YMMV. I think I'm pretty good at producing prints. Others may disagree completely.
Jerry C, printing is and always has been foremost among the Photographic Dark Arts. A properly calibrated monitor, appropriately lit workspace, good paper, and, of course, the correct ICC profile are all paramount to get you into the ballpark. From there it's just trial and error and tweaks. Eventually you get a feel for the adjustments you need to make out of the box to get you closer than ballpark but it still comes down to test prints.
Are you using Proof Profiles and Recipe Proofing? https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002645918-Proofing-profiles and https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002646358-Proofing-recipes
Also, there's a book you may be interested in: https://rawcaptureguide.gumroad.com/l/captureone23guide
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I agree, Brian, and I have great prints from HP and Epson pigment printers and my current Canon Pro 100 on various types of papers. I have used Capture One since version 8 and tried previewing using correct proof profiles, but find this process wanting, particularly in showing prints with the same apparent brightness as in the print preview. This looks as if it were a difference in gamma between the display and the printer even with a calibrated display. The extent of the difference varies with the paper and the printer. Consequently, as you point out, you can't avoid test prints, which waste paper and ink.
If I display the images on the camera display, other computers, iPhone, iPad or TV there is much less of discrepancy. Transmitted light seems easier to replicate on different devices than reflected light from a print. I just wish the previews in Capture One had the same apparent gamma/brightness in the ballpark of what comes out on the print.
So my question still is, is this a gamma problem and if so, at what point in the process?
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Jerry, how are you calibrating your monitor? I'm getting to your question but need some info first.
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I have used DataColor SpyderX Pro colorimeter. Not the best, but pretty good. It really only makes subtle tweaks. Apple monitors come pretty close without additional calibration when using Mac computers. With the monitor set to middle level brightness, printing a web page from Safari produces a print that is spot on what is seen on the monitor. With the same monitor setting, capture one produces prints that are somewhat darker than is viewed on the monitor. This seems to indicate that it is not a monitor problem or a calibration problem, but is a problem with how Capture One process the prints. If you could adjust the gamma for Capture One, you could correct the problem. Since Mac OSX 10.6, gamma 2.2 has become the standard gamma curve for Mac OS. If Capture One for Mac is still assuming a gamma of 1.8 when it is now 2.2, the image would look darker, whereas Safari's images might print as they display on the monitor.
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I submitted this to support, which I think describes the problem in detail and I will update this thread when I hear from them.
With the Mac Studio monitor or my iMac Pro monitor set to middle level brightness, I have an image in any application including Capture One that would look good if printed as displayed. For example, printing a web page from Safari produces a print that is spot on what is seen on the monitor. With the same monitor setting, Capture One produces prints that are somewhat darker than is viewed on the monitor. This seems to indicate that it is not a monitor problem or a calibration problem, but is a problem with how Capture One process the prints.
- Yes, the monitors are calibrated.
- Everything but Capture One prints as displayed.
- Setting the image brightness to +20 or Exposure to +0.9 corrects the brightness, but tends to reduce contrast and saturation a bit and so is not a perfect fix.
- Setting the tone curve to linear simulates the appearance of lower brightness on the display to that seen in the print as described above.
- This problem happens when either Capture One or the printer manages the print.
- It affects prints regardless of which ICC paper profile is used either by the printer or Capture One, although it is more noticeable with some papers.
- It happens with my HP 8710 and my Canon Pro 100 photo printer.
- It is not a new problem. It has happened to the same extent with previous versions, but I hoped it would be fixed by now.
This is not likely the cause, but it looks as if Capture One is sending the print with a gamma of 1.8 when the printers expect current Macs to operate at 2.2 or something like this.
Is there something I can do to adjust this problem that only affects Capture One?
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Hi Jerry,
Instead of printing a web page from Safari (which includes a jpg I assume?), do you have a printing application e.g. from Canon that you could use to print an C1-exported JPG or TIFF?
I send JPG or TIFF exported from C1 (calibrated monitor, proof etc. all done) to my printing service and need to brighten them too.
But I have seen a lot in the internet who need to brighten their images, not necessarily related to C1. Maybe it is just that you don't assess the print in the right (bright) light as it is supposed to be assessed in a standardized photo booth with standardized D50 lights, but you say that printing from Safari does not have this issue, so this idea could probably be ruled out.
I don't set my monitor brightness after calibration, it is part of the calibration, I set this in cd/m2. Going down to 60cd/m2 as opposed to the recommended 80-120 cd somewhat/almost solved it for me.
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I probably need to update the Canon DPP 4 app because it refuses to print after updating to Sonoma. I can print TiFFs from the Photos app and the brightness seems very close to what I see on the monitor display than when printed from Capture One with the same monitor brightness setting.
In essence, printing from any app other than Capture One produces a print with what I would say is the "correct" brightness, which is why I wondered about what is different about how Capture One processes the print output.
After over 20 years of making prints on a variety of photo printers, I am wishing for a way to get the printer and an application to talk to each other and make printing less of an experiment. It would be nice if you could take a picture of a standard test page under standard lighting, print it, take a picture of the print under the same standard lighting and have the difference evaluated by an app that produces an ICC profile for that display-app-printer combination.
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Addendum
Apparently, this is a common issue with Capture One. The most common advice I have found from a variety of sources is to turn down the monitor brightness, so that the exposure and brightness adjustments will better match what is needed to reproduce the image on the print. This has problems. While the overall brightness on the print is close to that on the monitor, there is a reduction in definition and contrast. When brightness on the screen is significantly lowered and exposure or brightness is raised in Capture One, the exposure warning shows up on a large part of the image that was not actually overexposed. Boosting of the exposure of black areas not shown with an underexposure warning shows up as overcompensated grays on the print. Clipping in the overly bright areas shown with the exposure warning can be partially reduced by pulling down the highlights and boosting the contrast or clarity, details like the hair on a light colored dog are lost. The results look like bad HDR.
I can boost the brightness as long as I avoid clipping and increase ambient light where the print is viewed, but how do users who do wedding photography and do their own printing deal with this? You can't very well tell the customer to just get a brighter light to view the wedding album.
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Hi Jerry, hard to assess without seeing what you are seeing.
Just a thought, to rule out a C1 print module problem, export your image to a file and use a different app to print. I think I remember a post from someone in the forum mentioning a good printing app he is using instead of the C1 print module but I don't remember any more details.
To rule out a printer related problem, bypass the printer, export a file and send it to a printing service, using the same paper. I always send my images to a printing service, I don't have a printer, but I can get good results with softproofing adjusted image variants, with some experimentation and taking into account that image brightness is lower and contrast mostly looks better in the actual print than in the softproof.
(That doesn't mean that softproofing shouldn't be improved in C1, https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/14860973084189-Add-Rendering-Intent-Black-Point-Compensation-and-Paper-White-Simulation-to-export-recipes-for-softproofing)0 -
Yes, as mentioned above, after exporting an imaged adjusted with brightness set just below the middle, "I can print TIFFs from the Photos app and the brightness seems very close to what I see on the monitor display than when printed from Capture One with the same monitor brightness setting." Photos is not a very deluxe way to do this, however, so I do need to get Canon DPP to work, or some other app.
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A very informative thread. Thank you to those who have contributed so far. I have a calibrated monitor set for 90cd/m2 and a contrast ration of 300:1, using an i1. Printing mono with my Epson 3880 using the paper/printing profile, I get clean neutral prints via Capture One, but the extreme dark greys block up. If I print from Affinity Photo, the blocked darks open up just enough to show gradation into black. The lightest areas from both applications are similar and satisfactory. Success, but I just wish Capture One would work just as well out-of-the-box. I don't like using two applications when one should work: Capture One.
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I have an Epson SureColor P800 and calibrate to 80 or 85 candela. That helps open up the blacks.
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