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Do not change my workspace when upgrading

Comments

22 comments

  • g g

    Why not making a guided tour of new features upon upgrade ? Or displaying a summary of changelog ?

    Or add a panel with the new controls to your carefully crafted workspace ?

    2
  • Demetri Dourambeis

    I agree. It's a pain and seem unnecessary on minor updates,

    1
  • JoJu

    "Why not making a guided tour of new features upon upgrade ?" One answer could be, that depending on the version you're upgrading from, the tour of new features would have to cover more than the last .1 – .2 step. Like from 14.3 to 16.1, the tour would be rather long?

    But I fully agree with you, why not restoring the same workspace as before? If it's only a bug fix update, there's no reason why I need to get back my "used" workspace twice (I use different panels than the standard ones and I need to set "my" named space twice until everything is ready to work.

    And while we're at it: Cleaning the no longer used backup workspaces should be an easier thing than 6 clicks for each delete candidate. Meanwhile I see 15 backup workspaces × 6 clicks = 90 clicks, just because no one thought it through and allowed to delete a multiple choice in the "delete workspace" dialogue.

    Alright, the tough nerds do it in finder (user>library>application support>Capture One>Workspaces)

    1
  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    g g

    That's cool and all but I still don't understand your request or think it has merit.

    Capture One has already:

    1) given you a vehicle to save your workspace(s) so they can be recalled any time you want.  Check it out.  It's really cool to have access to multiple workspaces for various types of work.  At least, I think it is.  You might, too.

    2) backed up your active workspace at time of upgrade. This gives you an opportunity to see the tools the way developers think they're best implemented.  You can cruise though and decide if you like or prefer your own.  If the latter, it's literally, click, click, click and you're back in business.

    Every. Last. Change. you've suggested will take hours to days of coding and testing and documentation and training so that you don't have to go click! click! click!

    I think Capture One has a responsibility to we users to listen to these changes we feel will make the application better and give them some consideration.  I also think we users have a responsibility to Capture One to police our suggestions and keep them somewhat within the guardrails of "improving Capture One".  

    In my personal opinion, this ask to save you Click! Click! Click! on the rare occasion when you upgrade isn't work the hours and hours and cost of making the change you suggest.  And further, I don't think the change would be an improvement.

    I'm one vote here but I vote down.

    1
  • g g

     Would people then object to a new panel getting added to their carefully crafted workspace?

    If it's a specifically dedicated panel ("what's new" panel), I guess yes. And if a popup announce "there is something in the "what's new" pannel" upon upgrade, definitely yes

    0
  • g g

    If you have created a new Workspace and saved it with your own name for the workspace you should be able to re-call it or use by simply specifying that you want THAT  workspace the first time you use C1 after the update.

    That's the point : why isn't it the default behaviour ?

    that information will be communicated in the Release Notes and other information panels related to the update, though I expect most people do not read the release notes and turn off the information panels without worrying about looking at the contents.

    That's the other point : why the hell C1 change my workspace when upgrading even when the upgrade is not about new functionnality ? And even if the upgrade is about new feature, why my workspace is reset ?

    If I may insist, what is the use case of reseting the workspace to default when upgrading ?

    I mean : I work on photos, I see a new upgrade, I upgrade, reopen C1, I expect things to be at the same places I left them, so that hey I can continue working ! Don't you ?

    0
  • g g

    Idea : on each upgrade you could have a new workspace called "what's new in version x.y.z" with the new features

    0
  • JoJu

    The upgrade process doesn't happen on a daily basis. I can live with "saving my workspace and recalling it after update". Also, one day there might be a feature I'd like to include in my workflow, but if the workspace remains the same, I will miss it. On the other hand, I'm not scrolling through all workspaces and try to recognize new features.

    Updating is a short moment. The everyday behavior is worse than I'm used to in other apps:

    A two screen setting is apparently beyond the imagination of the devs. Import window of 2 screens width and showing up only half size (so I have to move it first and then resize it) appears on each import.

    Export window: same situation but less disturbing, at least it appears to be possible not to shift half of that window outside the screen.

    The idea to keeping the pallets in the same condition they were when I quit the app before is also beyond imagination capabilities. My main pallets always closed and one I rarely use always open and wasting space.

    These annoyances I also have to live with. Wasting time with support or feature requests pointless. I can't recognize a reliable concept and I also cannot recognize that C1 ever asked their users about usability.

    0
  • g g

    @...

    The upgrade code isn't smart enough to account for what version you're upgrading from.

    That's my proposition : C1 should never touch my workspace.

    0
  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    g g

    Or you could, you know, save your workspace and reload it what(?) once each time you upgrade.  Saving your workspace is just good practice anyway.  And if you forget to save your workspace, Capture One creates a backup of the active workspace at the time of upgrade.  You can click Window>Workspace>the very top option in the 3rd section of the fly-out.  It'll be labeled "Backup from Capture One (version number you just upgraded from)". 

    You're spending massive time here to save yourself what? 2 or 3 clicks (at most and literally) when you upgrade? In a forest of fires, you want to prune a shrub.  smh.

     

    (Obligatory: My personal opinion.  Volunteer community mod.  Not affiliated with Capture One.)

    0
  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    I agree that reverting to your pre-upgrade workspace is only a couple of clicks away, and not really burdensome.

    To the point that you have to wade through multiple older saved workspaces, I'd suggest that you can always delete those. It could be the work of a few minutes if there are huge numbers of them, but once you have caught up with it, it is again not too burdensome to routinely delete all but the last couple when (if) you revert to the backed up one.

    Ian

    0
  • g g

    John Johnson

    Or C1 can also save me those 2 clicks and no touch my workspace.

    C1 is the only software I know that mess up your UI upon upgrade. Upon EACH upgrade even the smallest.

    Imagine you wife/husband buy a new teapot, and say "dear, upon upgrading the teapot I completly reset your deskop, but you have saved it, right ?"

    It's a human thing, I guess : when you do something please do not mess up with other ones job, or at least ask them.

    0
  • g g

    Ian Wilson

    Why not saving me few minutes by just NOT touching the workspace ?

    Or hey I have an idea : if C1 MUST change workspace for an unknown reason, why not then setting the previsous one ? or propose me to do so ?

    0
  • g g

    Brian Jordan

    In a forest of fires, you want to prune a shrub.

    Nice expression :)

    But if forest was on fire, I would open a bug, not a feature.

    The forest is nice, I'm walking in it, and branches are constantly hitting my face. I would like to make the path clear so that I can enjoy the forest.

    And if forest is on fire, I won't be annoyed by those branches and could concentrate on fire.

    It's a matter of beeing kind to users, so that they are in better mood, can forgive bugs, work better, are less irritated.

    0
  • g g

    Hi Brian Jordan

     It's really cool to have access to multiple workspaces

    I only use one, carefully arranged. All the tools I need are at the good place. I use C1 for few years and I never felt the use to swap between worspaces. Even if I "should" try, I still don't see the need to mess it up upon upgrade.

    This gives you an opportunity to see the tools the way developers think they're best implemented. 

    Maybe I missed something but upon upgrade I never saw a kind of "guided tour" that says "the new tools are here". And if I may insist : developers point of view is one thing, mine is another. You wouldn't accept ME to arrange YOUR bedroom because I consider my way is better, even I tell you "you can recover it in a snap". It's a matter of respect : your bedroom, your choices. And I insist again : what the use of messing up my workspace just because new tools are available ? could it be possible to let my workspace the way I left it and let ME decide to change it or not ?

    I understand your point of view and explanations. I consider it's an improvement as I consider disturbing user's work without telling him ("your workspace has been modified, here is a special one that shows you what we have made"), without asking it's permission ("click here if you want a workspace that show the new things") and without recovering what you mess up ("your workspace will be restored when you'll restart C1. This one will be called 'whats-new-in-version-X'") is not respectfull. You don't enter in people's life, way of doing, and such, without asking permission. It's the way I work.

    0
  • g g

    @...

    At the very least, they should preserve your current workspace as the active workspace when upgrading from version x to version y when that version change doesn't include any new tools which is actually true of most incremental version upgrades

    That right. I upgraded from 16.3.1 to 16.3.3, my workspace has changed for no reason as changelog (not displayed : you have to find it) do not mention any change in tools. That's an other (major) thing I don't like in C1 : the lack of message explaining what the software is currently doing. *sigh*

    0
  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    When you install an upgrade Capture One makes a backup of your current workspace. You can restore that workspace from the Windows > Workspace menu. Given that upgrades sometimes introduce new tools or new features in a tool perhaps Capture One does this to ensure you see these updates. At least the preserve your workspace with a backup that you can quickly restore.

     

    0
  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    The discussion now is about why don't they just leave your current workspace intact (instead of creating more unwanted cruft in your profile directory) when there are no changes in the workspace when you're doing an upgrade from something like 16.3.0 to 16.3.1 that have no changes to the workspace.

    I confess that I am no expert when it comes to app development. But it seems to me that what you are suggesting might be reasonably complex. If I update from 16.3.2 to 16.3.3, the installer (presumably the 16.3.3 installer) may be able to determine whether there are any workspace changes needed from 16.3.2. But what if I am updating to 16.3.3 from 16.3.1, or from 16.2.4, or from 15.4.2, or 14.3.1, etc, all of which are possible? Would the installer need be to be able to determine what version is currently installed and then decide whether that entailed any new features that might mean a workspace change would be desirable? (I don't know, I am just asking.)

    Ian

    0
  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    John, the question you and GG ask has been answered repeatedly. It’s not the answer you two want so you just keep asking.

    0
  • Brian Jordan
    Moderator

    But what if I am updating to 16.3.3 from 16.3.1, or from 16.2.4, or from 15.4.2, or 14.3.1, etc, all of which are possible? Would the installer need be to be able to determine what version is currently installed and then decide whether that entailed any new features that might mean a workspace change would be desirable? (I don't know, I am just asking.)

    Ian, the real question is how much true improvement and how many new features would be sacrificed at the altar of saving someone 3 clicks (at most) every upgrade cycle. Writing this logic is possible but try to imagine the design and development cycle and then the qa testing. It’s just nuts.

    0
  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Brian Jordan - yes, my comment was based on my assumption (though I am no expert) that it might be a more complicated business than first appears just to save those few clicks.

    Ian

    0
  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    @... - so possibly the discussion has run its course. There is not much more we can add that will persuade the developers that it's (a) desirable (b) easy (c) will please more users than it annoys.

    Ian

    0

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