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Capture One Express is coming to an end

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295 comments

  • Malte Paas

    You won't upgrade to Pro anyway, so why are you wasting your time commenting and complaining here? Just get the Adobe software if you think it is better.

     

    exactly what i will do.

    for the cost of ownership C1 express was good. :)
    the subscription cost of C1 PRO is not good compared to adobes offering.

    not difficult to understand i think.

    now add to it that people have a bit over 1 month too look for a new solution and you might get why they complain.

     

     

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  • Christian Damhus

    I refer to comments like this:

    "as good as C1 is, it can´t compete with photoshop."

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  • M

    Christian Damhus I mean that's just a fact. It doesn't have 10% of the tools photoshop does and plugin availability is very limited in C1. 

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  • Malte Paas

    I refer to comments like this:

    "as good as C1 is, it can´t compete with photoshop."

     

    and it can not.  isn´t that obvious?

    C1 is a RAW editor with some editing functionality, not a full photo editing app like photoshop.

    you can´t do certain things with C1 you can do with PS.

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  • Christian Damhus

    Malte Paas

    and? Thats why I would not compare PS with C1. Anyway, everyone should use the software, he/she favours. Despite this weird policy, I decided to stay with C1 Pro.

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  • Malte Paas

     Thats why I would not compare PS with C1. Anyway, everyone should use the software, he/she favours. Despite this weird policy, I decided to stay with C1 Pro.

     

    i was not the one asking why people complain.
    i did not question the opinions of those who love C1 and pay for it.

    but if i can do X with one progam and X and Y with another program AND pay less.... i know what i choose.

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  • Jed Best

    Just my two cents, but shouldn't Capture One be compared to Lightroom, DXO, Photolab, etc. Photoshop should be compared to Affinity Photo. I have used or tried many of the Raw Developers and find that for my Sony and Fuji cameras, Capture One produces the best results.

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  • Malte Paas

    Just my two cents, but shouldn't Capture One be compared to Lightroom, DXO, Photolab, etc. Photoshop should be compared to Affinity Photo. I have used or tried many of the Raw Developers and find that for my Sony and Fuji cameras, Capture One produces the best results.

     

    as i wrote photoshop has camera raw included and the subscription is for photoshop + lightroom.

    that is what i compare, the overall value.


    i am not going into the what is the "best raw editor" discussion.
    there is no objective test that you can point too that gives a scientific valid conclusion what the best RAW editor is.

    to many variables to begin with.
    thousands of YT videos about pixelpeeping images for hours could not convince me that one RAW editor offers MUCH better quality.

    i was used to C1, i liked the interface. do i think LR images look worse.. sure not.
    i am not a fanboy.
    yeah noise reduction sucked in LR (but not anymore) and if i wanted the best NR i would have bought DXO. not C1. 

    but that´s enough of this useless talk for me.

    but i can say that for me the value sure is in lightroom+ photoshop.
    that combination just offers me more.

     

     

     

     

     

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  • Todd Clark

    Was debating on paying for Capture One Pro but I’m disappointed the software that came with my A7iii will no longer work. Also disappointed 16.3.2 has issues so I cannot use it with my new A7CR so I just paid the subscription for Lightroom.

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  • Dominik S

    The main reason I switched to C1Pro was to keep control over my work. I didn't want to put myself in a position where I might lose access to my catalog if I ever decided to cancel the subscription (or worse if the product was just discontinued). And I think I am not alone with this.

    I don't have a problem with discontinuing Express but the fact that you think just disabling active installations is acceptable in any way is a huge red flag to me. And the FAQ frankly doesn't exactly inspire confidence when it comes to my "perpetual" license:

    How can I ensure this won’t happen to my other Capture One products?
    Refer to our End User License Agreement (EULA) that applies to paid products: Capture One EULA.

    How is it possible for you to deactivate my perpetual license?
    For legal concerns, contact our legal team at legal@captureone.com for more in-depth answers.

    When the question is essentially "Are you going to take away the software I paid for?", the correct answer is "no". It is not "talk to the lawyers". This should not be hard.

    I also feel sorry for all the C1 employees who were not involved in this decision but have to deal with the fallout right before Christmas. I know this is not your fault.

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  • Arash Saheli

    we can assure you that the future is brighter than ever for our professional and prosumer users. 

    Denis Huk and the rest of us, the peasants, can go and ..., emmm, eat cake? There is still some money to be made by catering to the hobbyists with an entry level product, especially when you already have developed the product and it cost you almost nothing to maintain it, all you have to do is to ask a reasonable price and we will pay. I just don't understand why nobody in the company can see this!

    I don't know about others, but I'm willing to pay $50 and keep my Express license, I don't like to be forced into paying $300 or even $180 for features that I don't need and won't use.

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  • Gary Pollard

    Have to say that watching Capture One argue about the definition of “perpetual” is very similar to watching Adobe argue about the definition of “indefinitely” in “Future versions of Lightroom will be made available via traditional perpetual licenses indefinitely.” Basically neither can be trusted.

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  • Propheticus

    I see a lot of people referring to their Express license as being perpetual or lifetime even. If it was offered in perpetuity, I can understand the outcry about deactivating already installed instances.

    Is it actually a perpetual license though? Since it allowed you to download/use the latest express version always and not just the release at the time you acquired/activated the key, it behaved more like a free subscription.
    In my profile it's also listed as subscription, not a perpetual license. Was this historically different?

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  • DAVID THOMPSON

    Really disappointed in this decision by C1. C1 does give the best results with the Fuji X Tran sensors and I think are going suffer a lot of anger in the Fuji Community. I can see Fujifilm as a company also not being happy with this. I have looked into upgrading to C1 Pro but your prices are just extortionate when compared to DXO or Adobe. 

    Big Mistake Capture One.  

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  • John Zandbergen

    Propheticus I bought it (as part of a package with lens, body, bag, software), did not get it for "free". C1 now wants to pretend it was their gift. I bought a car and got a tire repair kit with it because this car had no place for a spare wheel. These things are not gifts, they are part of the package. Sales people like to call it "free", but as a consumer, I disagree: it was paid for. If you look at C1's partnerships page, you can verify that these 'free software' deals actually have a value.

    I was pleasantly surprised Express was updated a few times. I would not have complained if my use would have been restricted to C1 version 20. But I never imagined that I was lured into a trap and that someone would actually pull the plug and make my activation code invalid.

    It was never communicated that the deal was: "Free, until C1 says it is not".

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  • Christian Damhus

    The C1 company will have its plans for the future. They did a brutal cut to all the Express users and I assume that the stakeholders do not expect most of the Express users to move to C1Pro.

    But than: C1 Express was free and it happens that freeware gets cancelled. One could insist that Fujifilm "paid" for C1 Express, but non of us knows anything about this contract.

    Thats the way it is. Either you pay a monthly fee or 300 Euros for the perpetual version or you move to another Raw Software.

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  • Propheticus

    John Zandbergen Then I would definitely go back to the 'dealership' that sold you this package and also complain there + ask how they are going to compensate you. Their out however will probably be it was a free extra (without mentioning a monetary value like "Free, worth x" / "Free, to the value of x"). On the partnership page of C1 I also cannot find anything stating the Express version's monetary value. A shop making you believe you're paying for bundled software which is actually free for anyone buying a camera of that brand is a bit dubious...

    Legality and definitions aside, I think it's a PR blunder to not simply freeze existing installations.  Disabling those does not exactly create goodwill. Fine you don't offer a free tier going forward, but coming back on what was offered as a bundle (making it an attractive proposition) feels like they are acting in bad faith.

    I learned of C1 through one of those 'free' express licenses that was advertised in the box of my Fujifilm camera and not much later bought a full perpetual license of the Fuji version. (which was later turned into the camera brand-agnostic version). I don't think I would have if they had pulled this trick back then.

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  • Anbaric

    I see a lot of people referring to their Express license as being perpetual or lifetime even. If it was offered in perpetuity, I can understand the outcry about deactivating already installed instances. 

    I don't recall the possibility that Express might expire ever being raised. It's significant here that the Express cancellation FAQ asks (but does not answer) the question 'How is it possible for you to deactivate my perpetual license?'. Why we need to contact their lawyers to learn the answer is another question. Perhaps C1 realise they are on shaky ground here, or maybe they just don't want even a polite version of 'we did it because we can, and you can either suck it up or pay up' on a public website?

    I have to say I'm baffled by this decision. It could almost be designed to destroy trust and goodwill, and for what gain? Simply stopping updates and not offering new registrations would be an understandable, if rather sad, decision but flicking an unadvertised kill switch at extremely short notice is only going to enrage their customers. Why does this mechanism even exist in the Express version? Perhaps they will get some people to convert to Pro, but others will be leaving the C1 'ecosystem' for good. Once bitten.

    Jack W asks us, perfectly reasonably, to remember that 'there's a human at the end of your messages'. Perhaps that's something C1 should have taken on board when they emailed the least welcome Christmas card of the year, telling people who in some cases have spent considerable time on edits they imagined they'd be able to return to that they were being cut off in 6 weeks, and offering a FAQ replete with corporate passive aggression ('if you don't  like it, talk to our lawyers', to paraphrase). Denis Huk wants us to continue sharing feedback to understand how C1 can do better. I think he already knows the answer. Don't cut off your users for no good reason. Keep existing Express licences active, even if you never update the product again. A nicely worded message explaining how Express will no longer be supported in future but you are welcome to keep using it, and meanwhile here is your Pro discount, would have gone (and would still go) a long way if the company actually wants to convert customers to Pro rather than leaving with a nasty taste in their mouths for one of C1's several excellent competitors.

    I can understand why existing C1 Pro 'perpetual' licence holders are worried. When Adobe brought in online activation of CS, I remember bland (but not legally binding) reassurances from Adobe employees that should they ever take down the activation servers, a means would be found for users to continue installing and using the software. They honoured that for CS2 and (briefly) CS3, but have now removed the relevant installers and there's no sign they will do this for CS4 or later. Your investment in older 'perpetual' licences has simply vanished, with no obvious recourse. C1 is now going beyond this by killing already installed copies of Express. What might they do to current 'perpetual' licences a few years from now? For my next raw converter, I will be looking elsewhere.

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  • Antonio F. Shalders

    Not sure if someone from Capture One bother about all this mess they created or even if they are reading this.

    Their silence about this tell us many things. 

    It's like they're whispering something like "We don't care about students or hobbists, We want the big ones that will opt-in for the subscription model, then we will have much more profit" 

    A PR disaster in my opinion. A very efficient way to make opinion forming users to recommend to look elsewhere....

    By the way, DxO and Silkypix have lower tier versions of their flagship product exactly for the hobbist/student.

    There is Affinity and RawPower (very decent raw converter for Mac) for a very affordable price.

     

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  • Martin Tolley

    Will this:

    https://www.fujirumors.com/capture-one-offers-free-fujifilm-raw-converter-for-fujifilm-users/

    go some way to mollify the Fuji community?

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  • Anbaric

    Will this:

    https://www.fujirumors.com/capture-one-offers-free-fujifilm-raw-converter-for-fujifilm-users/

    go some way to mollify the Fuji community?

    First I've heard of this - no mention in the Express FAQ. Does it have the same features as Express? Are there other editions like the Sony and Nikon Express versions? Is it safe to invest time in using it and saving edits, or can it be remotely killed with little notice like Express? Can it read an Express Catalog? If Express was discontinued because they have 'made the decision to focus their efforts on their core products', why are they apparently launching another basic version at the same time?

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  • Barry Justice

    This doesn't have all the same features as the Express version.  It looks like a pared down Express version that has been kept to keep Fujifilm (the company) happy would be my guess as Fujifilm most certainly don't engage in the same cutthroat business practices that Capture One does.  I'm not sure what features were in the latest Express version but I do know you had access to the basic colour editor and that's gone from this new one.

    On edit one has to wonder if this is the same as the free 3 month All in One bundle for Fujifilm and will quit working after the three months is up. 

    "Is there an alternative free app available for use?
    Yes, with this exclusive Capture One x Fujifilm trial, you can get three months of All in One for free: captureone.com/en/leaflet-fujifilm

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  • Anbaric

    From the Fujirumors link, looks like you start with the 3 month bundle, but then have the option of downgrading to the cut-down version or paying to stay with the full version ('Make sure to cancel trial before the 3rd free month is over, to avoid being charged further'). So not as good as Express, more complicated to set up (perhaps requiring payment details), limited to one manufacturer, and again with an uncertain future? Perhaps making this happen required some sort of new deal with Fuji that Nikon and Sony have declined? Maybe C1 always saw the camera companies as their customers for Express rather than us. At least for Nikon there is NX Studio, and the Silkypix-based Raw File Converter for Fuji, which I don't think require online activation and presumably can't be cancelled at the whim of the supplier. Sony have something called Imaging Edge that I've never used. Of course it's a pain having different raw converters if you have cameras from more than one manufacturer, which was one reason I'd been considering C1 Pro before the latest debacle. Now, not so much.

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  • BeO
    Top Commenter

    I am a C1 Pro customer since version 8.

    If I had aquired C1 Express as part of a camera sale and invested time learning C1 and developing my images and using it as my catalog I would be very p*ssed by the company's decision to deactivate my license.

    This decision is embarrassing, shame on you C1 management.

    Unfortunately it does not really surprise me, John Friend has summarized yesterday the history of the bad moves from C1 quite well, not much to add.

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  • Richard Huggins

    Probably going against the flow but I am grateful I was able to use Capture One Express for free for several years. Opened my eyes to high quality raw conversions. Now enjoying Capture One Pro. Why whatever deal there was with Sony ended is beyond my pay grade. 

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  • Fredgotts

    Guys i have some bad news for the "Perpetual" license owners
    .WIth MacOS 14.2, tethering breaks on several platforms including Lightroom and C1 had to make an update so it works again, the problem is that the older versions like C1 v20 doesn't get the software update (Even though a small update on the older sofware would fix it) and now people are stuck with a broken software and being forced to upgrade.

    User:

    Hey C1 team, I am running C1 20, 13.1.2.37. Is this now never going to tether to MacOS 14.2? Is there a workaround which will get it running? I have no need to upgrade to the latest C1 and no wish to spend more money on software but find it very frustrating that something that was working fine is now broken.

    Moderator:

    CO 20 is not certified for Sonoma so don't expect an update. CO 16.3 was effectively CO 24 (17) but CO seems to be parting ways with traditional version numbering. You will probably have to upgrade. Probably not the message you were hoping for.

     

    Source:

    https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/15423070186269-macOS-Sonoma-14-2-breaks-tethering-across-multiple-applications-please-update-to-16-3-3-if-possible?page=1#community_comment_15489127986461

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  • Walter Rowe
    Moderator
    Top Commenter

    Fredgotts you are late to the party .. 16.3.3 was released today that fixes this.

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  • Fredgotts

    Did you even read my comment? 

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  • M

    Fredgotts Don't forget to ping Walter by typing @ and then his user name

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  • John Friend
    Top Commenter

    Fredgotts

    Do you expect a software company to revise a four year old piece of software Capture One Pro v20 (3 major new versions issued since then) to fix an issue caused by a new release of an operating system?

    I get that you're bummed that your older software doesn't still do everything you want on the latest OS, but ... this isn't really on Capture One.

    To be honest, it feels like Apple has been making changes in their OS lately that break things and the only safe way to own Capture One on a Mac is perhaps either don't upgrade your Apple system (including no OS upgrades) or have a Capture One subscription so you get all the updates to fix the things Apple breaks.

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