Capture One Express is coming to an end
Hello everyone,
Writing a post in here just in case some of you have not been contacted by e-mail and to also share some helpful resources after this news.
See here:
Express deprecation FAQ
How to access your catalog images outside of Capture One
From the email communication sent out earlier today:
"... This means that starting January 30, 2024, Capture One Express will no longer be available.
You’ll be able to use Express until January 30, and all your images and edits will also be available until this date.
Starting January 30, you won’t be able to download or use Express from our website. Also, you can’t activate any Express license keys after January 30, even though you downloaded the license key before this date.
We’ll end all support for Express after January 30."
Understandably, if you are an Express user this will come as disappointing news. However, we have done our best to ensure that there are options available to you, should you want to stay in the Capture One eco-system – check your inbox over the coming days for an offer that's unique to you.
Kind regards,
Team Capture One
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Bad move for capture one to alienate potential upgrades.
For those who want to stay low budget: if you shoot Nikon, Nikon Studio is a good raw converter and has similar organizational capabilities integrated. And if you use low cost Affinity Photo for detailed editing, the ease of going back and forth is better than with C 1.
So there is a very good alternative to kiss C1 goodbye3 -
Walter Rowe writes:
BeO – I am certainly no attorney and I feel confident that professional attorneys pondered this thoroughly.
If they did, they aren't telling us what they concluded. In the FAQ linked by Jack W in the first post above, Denis Huk poses the question 'How is it possible for you to deactivate my perpetual license?' and suggests that we contact legal@captureone.com for the answer. Well, I did exactly that and they replied with an email informing me about the new cut-down Fuji version (I hadn't even mentioned Fuji) but failed the answer the question I had actually asked. I wouldn't be surprised if anyone else who attempts to get a response from them is met with similar stonewalling. If they had an answer they wanted to make public, it would be in the FAQ.
But really, this isn't just about the legal situation, but about a company that (presumably) thinks it's a good idea to ask their lawyers if they can get away with unilaterally cutting off customers at very short notice who have obtained the software in good faith, have complied with the licence, may have invested considerable time in making non-destructive edits they will now lose, and were never forewarned that snatching the software away from them was even a possibility. There is a saying that you can judge someone's character by how they treat those who can do nothing for them, and perhaps that also applies to the corporate character of companies. While subscribers may be treated well, and 'perpetual' licence holders rather less so (with a now ridiculously short support period for such an expensive product), Express users are clearly entirely dispensable. Companies in the end are out to make money, but in a competitive area like raw processing, factors like goodwill and trust (hard to gain, but easily lost) can make a real difference in which products we choose to buy. Something, perhaps, for C1's private equity owners to ponder thoroughly.
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I hope Affinity launch something equivalent and wipe the floor with your shareholders. Do you take your customers for fools; the excuses you use, to concentrate on pro features, are complete nonsense. The same express version is just the pro version with some features disabled when you put in the license code. This is a perfect example of short-sighted greed. Those customers who are now using express, will not be able to re-authorize a stored download copy if they do a computer update. Do you really think they will all come running when you twist their arm behind their back? OK, so assuming Express to be free forever is perhaps unrealistic, but you don't even offer an affordable (<$50/yr) version of express which I'm sure many would take up. Idiots. Look at the astro software market. The US cash cows have been slain.
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Can you imagine the uproar if Microsoft went over to a similar model for Windows?
- Subscription model only for Windows 12 onwards
- Existing installations of Windows 10 and 11 deactivated so machines running them would no longer have a functioning OS.
- A redefinition of "perpetual" to mean "for as long as it suits us"
I see that C1are offering a free "Fujifilm RAW converter" to existing Express users as long they:
- sign-up to a three month trial of C1Pro All-in-One
- provide their credit card details
- ensure that they cancel the subscription before the three months have elapsed
- download and install the "new" converter.
Oh, and the feature list for the "new" converter appears to be identical to the existing C1 Express.
I ask myself whether I really want to give my credit card details to this company. After all, they may decide that three months means one month!
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Given it's the holiday season I could see it taking longer with people taking holiday leave. Have you look at the Requests area under your profile of the support site? I've seen responses there that somehow I never received by email.
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I know a lot of places where December is often used to take leave they may otherwise "lose" at the end of the calendar year. While people aren't taking off an entire month it is certainly possible that they are short staffed on any given day.
I found the current license agreement here. My interpretation is that Capture One can kill any product at any time.
https://mediagen.captureone.com/media/zw3hjcup/capture-one_eula_eng_november_29_2023.pdf
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"My interpretation is that Capture One can kill any product at any time."
- If by "kill" you mean to stop any further development or support, then I tend to agree. If you think that C1 can kill my perpetual license, that I have recently bought for 300 Euros, then I disagree. I do have the right to use C1 as long as I can for many, many years. Only if my computer system does not support the version I have bought anymore, than and only than C1 Pro 23 is dead. But C1 has NO legal right to kill the Software that I have paid for.
You should chose your words more carefully, because you give us consumers, who paid a lot of money for this software, the bad feeling that we can't trust C1. This can't be the interest of your stakeholders.0 -
Paul Reiffer did an interview in Feb. 2023 with Rafael Orta the CEO and it was painful to watch as he answered plain, clear questions in true scripted politician style not giving a clear yes or no answer to any question. The only thing he did make clear, in his roundabout way, was that C-1 was only interested in professional and high end photographers and they couldn't give a rats ass about the hobbyist.
Orta is bent on giving out Christmas presents at the end of the year. Last year he ditched the updates for a year after purchasing a perpetual license favouring a push to the subscription model with a pathetic loyalty plan. This year he ditched the Express license. Orta and the upper management stay quiet afterwards and leave the poor C-1 employees to pick up the pieces, putting on a brave face in the name of the company and in turn their jobs.
I seems that the company is not doing as well as they thought they would if the Black Friday sale is anything to go by. 50% discounts were given to both perpetual and subscriptions this year whereas 40% discounts were given to subscriptions only last year. I mean the subscription customer has to subscribe for three years to get 60% off a perpetual license in the amazing loyalty scheme launched just 12 months ago.
One thing for sure is certain and that is when Orta finally leaves the company he'll leave with a big fat bonus for doing such a good job of screwing over the customers and leaving the American private equity firm who owns the company a healthy return on their investment while leaving Capture One a shell of it's former self.
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Judge us by what we leave behind
We will... :-)
I think the private equity investor is a Danish company, maybe the former owner "Silverfleet" was from the U.S.?
P.S. I have to see this video...
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BeO I stand corrected. I stereotyped given the way the company is being run.
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Interesting, they still offer Express on their website. Why is that?
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Barry Justice, Thanks for the link.
That is a very interesting interview.
Maybe a bit off topic, bare with me.
A few interesting facts
- In the last years C1 more than doubled their staff. This comes at a cost and helps me to understand the need for more revenue.
- Clearly stated, no loyalty recognition for perpetual license customers.
- Interestingly, many professionals prefer perpetual licenses over subscriptions, if I understood him right.
A few thoughts
Image quality, camera connectivity, performance and stability is he most important for him.
He does not see DAM functionality as a core feature, he sees that C1 is (only) a part of a photographers big ecosystem, and partnering with other software companies can be a thing.
Regarding the latter point, no big DAM improvements, the problem I have is that the newer versions ruined the possibility to have a efficient way to work with an external DAM software in conjunction with a C1 session, for Windows users, i.e. drag&drop to a session album does not work anymore.
A regression defect, like many others, not prioritized by the dev department, though it fits into the heterogenous software ecosystem idea.
How does this align with his statement that C1 "create compatibility with many other tools in the market, and you can expect that" (22:10).
Maybe they did not receive many bug reports for this bug, but with every regression defect not solved they risk a few to many silent users not upgrading or leaving, and this can add up over time.
Increased prices and increasing staff did not solve the problem with the many regression defects that newer than 15.2 versions have had and partially still have. It is actually worse than a couple of major versions back.
So there is a lot to be desired regarding that part of 'stability', which Rafael explicitely mentioned as being very important.Regardless of license type, regression defects and issues are a plague. And the cut down of the bug fixing period is particularly bad for perpetual license customers, given the increased tendency for regression defects. The AI masking in 16.3 really interested me but I did not upgrade from 15.2 because of several regression issues of the newer version. If quicker time to market of new features comes at the cost of increased number of regresssion issues than this 'agile' delivery method provides no value to me.
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BeO He mentioned that they had hired more than 100 new staff and I would probably guess that a good number of those would be developers. All the new junior developers is probably compounding all these regression defects. Since 2020 the bugs in C-1 have grown exponentially to the point where I gave up reporting them after spending more time on that than editing my images. The senior developers are probably pulling their hair out at this point. Many of the bugs I reported in the last couple of years were never fixed and that's just going to compound the problem down the line.
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Thanks Barry, it is sometimes good to have a confirmation that my observation is shared by others too.
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He mentioned that they had hired more than 100 new staff and I would probably guess that a good number of those would be developers.
Well, I'd guess they're not in customer service and public relations...
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There is absolutely no way we will be disabling peoples license keys for Capture One Pro, under any circumstances.
You only ever mention Capture On Pro.
What about the licenses of older versions like Capture One Nikon?
Can you also make a clear statement for these versions or do I have to worry about the perpetual license of these versions?
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Thom Hogan wrote about Capture One in last week's "The Software Saga Continues": https://bythom.com/newsviews/the-software-saga-continues.html
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thom hogan said it like it is. he removed C1 from the recommended list.
he also echoed my main concern.... the value for the subscription is not there.C1 subscription is more expensive then adobes photo subscription ... and that has with photoshop AND lightroom the superior potential.
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Thom's comment, "However, I've slowly weened away from covering Capture One Pro, and now will no longer have the ability to cover it (other than their press releases, which often are just more exasperating news for customers).", just says it all
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I've been thinking about Capture One's decision to shut down the Express** software rather than let it zombie on without support or upgrade. (**Minus the Fuji version, of course.).
Why would they ever do such a thing? I think possibly the answer for that is right in the last update cycle. Something happened so that there was a significant problem with the Express versions. I don't know the in-and-outs of it but I do remember that some fix had to be pushed because the tools panel disappeared. That right there is the answer, I believe.
Those are all free versions. Free as in non-revenue generating. Good will doesn't pay rent or salaries. But, pushing that fix did cost developer and QA time. So, Capture One has a choice: Let it zombie on and flat out fail at some point sooner or later or kill it. If they go with the former, it dies with no notice to users. Something happens with an OS upgrade or some shared code and users wake up to find the application DOA with no notice. Or they can give users notice and take it on the chin but allow users a graceful spin-down period with a set deadline.
Given the uproar over taking the latter route, can you all imagine the absolute S#*+ storm if Capture One leaves express up but refuses to push any more fixes after some date? There WILL come a time when it just fails. And users who ignored the warnings will be left with no warning. No off-ramp. No time to react.
Say what you will but this was, in my opinion, the best of bad alternatives.
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So why even pull the plug on Express anyway? Well, again, goodwill doesn't pay bills. I'm going to believe Capture One is capable of calculating a basic conversion ratio and doing some basic math. If Express users convert in significant numbers to justify the cost, Express is worth the investment. If it doesn't, it's gotta go. We may not like it but that's just the way it is. That's just the way business works. There's not a single other company out there (to my knowledge) that offers a free product. Sure, maybe some mobile app but we all understand the cost of using those.
And thinking more about these free products, not all are going away. I believe the notice mentioned that a Fuji version will be available at some point early(?) next year and Capture One is providing Fuji users with a 90-day license of Pro to bridge the gap.
Also, remember that Capture One couldn't support the latest Sony cameras until very recently simply because they couldn't get their hands on cameras to do the R&D. This leads me to believe that there are no partnerships in place between any of the camera companies and Capture One except Fuji. I think there's some agreement with Fuji hence some of the recent advertising including Fuji, the on-going Fuji version, etc. Financial support? Joint marketing? Something. There's a reason it lives on while the others go away. It's got to make financial sense somehow because we can all understand that a product has to support itself of it has to get culled. VC, mom and pop, whomever, at the end of the day, it's about making a profit. We may not like it but we all respect it every time we cash our paychecks. I sure don't work for free.
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@...
Maybe re-read what I wrote. I addressed each of these already. Bob who downloaded the software 6 months or 6 years ago is going to be ticked come next whenever when he kicks off COExpress and it doesn't work. BUT MY PHOTOS!!!!!!!!!! he'll scream. Why didn't they warn me?????????????????
Come on, man. At least read what I wrote before you blaze off a response.
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Brian Jordan I don't believe a word of it, that's a crock. I have Photoshop CS 6 that I bought, I believe in 2013, and it still runs on my latest laptop running Windows 10 AND my latest Lumenzia panels still load and work on it.
Quite frankly I think C-1 has a developer problem, too many new developers that don't know the ins and outs of the program given all the bugs that raise their ugly head with each new release.
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Someone with zero inside information. Sure, we can swag numbers all day long and make anything worth the investment. But then the bills start coming in and the checks being cashed either cover them or they don't. You're trying to tell me that a VC firm and their management doesn't understand how to calculate whether a product is profitable but we - who have ZERO actual information - know more about it than they do?
As to them shouldering the cost of Express due to Fuji so they may as well support all cameras? Maybe that would hold water if the Fuji sensor wasn't so different but it is. So now you want them to support an orange because the orange's manufacture has some deal with them but also support all the bananas, too, because a bunch of users who get the product for free really, really want them to? Come on, man. You know enough about cameras to know that Fuji and everyone else are fundamentally different at the sensor level - which impacts the very core of a RAW editor.
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You have to think about the difference between a RAW editor and a pixel editor. Photoshop works with only very standard file types. DNG hasn't changed in years (up until Adobe's most recent change). TIFF. JPEG. Those are all legacy file types. Nothing has to happen to make sure that PS continues to open those files. Tell me - because I really don't know - does PS 6 open the new DNG files?
You ask PS to open a RAW file format from the latest Sony camera and it'll barf on itself. It has to have a constantly updated ACR to make that happen.
If Capture One opened a standardized file format, your argument would hold water. It doesn't, so your analogy is incorrect.
Beyond that, just look at the most recent service patch. Capture One had to do something to fix the tools panel in COExpress. Something changed. Maybe some shared code somewhere? I don't know. But I do know that them making that fix cost them time. Time I, as a paying customer, would rather Capture One invest in continuing to improve the Capture One Pro software.
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Brian Jordan Yes it opens new DNG. Created a DNG from a Fuji raw from my X-H2 (Fuji's newest camera) and clicked open in CS 6 and it opened in Camera Raw 9.1.1 the latest Raw engine supported by CS6.
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@... You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I, for one, applaud the decision. I pay for my software every year. I want Capture One to focus every dollar and every developer cycle on making the software I pay for as good as it can be. If the free versions aren't at least covering their own costs (and I have to believe that basic accounting says that is the case), I'm happy to see the dollars invested by paying customers become more focused on supporting the application used by those paying customers.
If you can't give weight to the absolute fact that customers using zombie software will be absolutely LIVID when they day comes that software dies "with no warning", I don't see us being able to agree on much surrounding this topic.
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Barry Justice That's not what I'm talking about. PS doesn't open that file. You either use a very new version of ACR or you use a very new version of Adobe's DNG converter. PS6 won't open a .raf file without one of those stepping into the process.
Specifically the file I asked about is the new DNG format Adobe created recently with the new noise reduction in LR. That DNG is different than the DNG we've all come to know and love. Same can. Different Coke. Will PS6 open a DNG created by LR's new AI noise reduction? The same new DNG that Capture One cannot currently open.
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@... You and me arguing over whether the free COExpress applications were profitable for the company is pointless, yet here we are.
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