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Can Lightroom and C1 compliment each other?.

NNN637068312039505076
Hello,

Adobe recently announced that they reset all the free trial timers from the past. That makes me eligible to download LR6 and give it another try for 30 days. I'm curious to try it and see if it could compliment C1 or would it compete too much with it? Does anyone here use LR and C1 together? What are your experiences and thoughts on this?

thanks
iosman

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Comments

18 comments

Date Votes
  • Daniel Sroka
    I am looking into this as well. I have just started testing C1 as an alternative to LR's RAW editing. Lightroom will remain my main tool â€" I have a lot invested into my LR catalog, and C1's DAM tools are just too basic for my needs â€" but I am hoping to add C1 as a complimentary RAW editor, to use when LR cannot handle a photograph well.

    I'm still working out my workflow, but right now it looks like it will be:
    • import RAW files into LR, and do all database management and primary editing there

    • If I feel I need to work on a file in C1, I will import it into the C1 catalog for editing.

    • After editing, I will generate a TIFF, and label it so that I know it was created by C1 (e.g. "NK10000_c1.TIF")

    • I will then import the TIFF back into LR and stack it with the original RAW file


    I'm hoping this will allow me to use both to their best advantage. Any advice?
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  • Clau_S
    I'm not particularly fond of Lightroom. I've used it for my old RAFs that Capture One has never been able to manipulate but I can't imagine a reason (and not even how) to use them in conjunction. I mean, there could be a reason to have both (but not use them together) if any would out-perform the other in a particular task or would completely miss a feature. That depends on your needs. For further edits I process my files and open them in Photoshop (the reason why I spend 12€/month for photography plan).
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  • cdc
    I use both C1 and Lr regularly, Photoshop compliments them both but they do not compliment one another in my experience. It is quite rare that one file would benefit from being run through both programs. I'll pick which program to use based on the needs of the project and just stay with that editor throughout the project. That said I used to shoot tethered to C1 and then after the shoot import the RAW files to Lr for the grading & retouching from time to time but I'm doing less and less of that now.

    The only time I can think of where one file went through both Lr & C1 was when I started grading the file in Lr, exported a tiff into Ps for retouching, and then realized that C1's color editor was needed so took the retouched tiff into C1 to use the color editor and then exported a final edit out of C1. It is far from an ideal workflow and had I known I would have ended up there I would have just started the project in C1 instead of Lr.
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  • NN636020955913715283UL
    I think they can. I mean I've been using LR for model/portrait/people shoots, and C1 for everything else (landscapes, architecture, travel, etc).

    I think the only thing you have to be careful of is if you remove a file from one system (such as remove it from the disk), that it's not referenced in the other program. I don't import the same files/shoots into both programs--for me it's one or the other, depending on the shoot.

    I think you may also have to be careful of XMP files as I think C1 can read and modify those too, so if LR is writing XMP files it might be possible for C1 to modify them and create problems in LR (I would suggest turning off the XMP side car files in LR IMO, and just have LR store the metadata in its database if you are going to import an image (or shoot) into both systems, which I sort of wouldn't advise).
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  • OddS.
    NN636020955913715283UL wrote:
    ...I mean I've been using LR for model/portrait/people shoots, and C1 for everything else (landscapes, architecture, travel, etc).


    I tried a different model just to evaluate the LR catalog after concluding that the C1 Catalog was not designed for users like myself. It came down to C1 Session mode if C1 at all. So, I had image files organized in C1 sessions and I registered the image files in LR's catalog. During an evaluation period I processed images in both applications before I decided to abandon LR, I did not find its catalog to be all that great. It was certainly possible to work with LR and C1 sessions, but I learned that I do not want a "DAM" that is an integral part of one of my image processing applications. I still use C1 in session mode.
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  • Ian Leslie
    OddS wrote:
    I do not want a "DAM" that is an integral part of one of my image processing applications. I still use C1 in session mode.


    I may have missed you answering this before but - what DAM system are you using along with C1?
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  • Timothy Grams
    C1 does not merge photos into panos or HDR's. You'll need other software such as LR or PS to do those tasks. C1 has much better masking and color grading than LR. So yes, in some specific instances they do compliment each other.
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  • Dave R
    dsroka wrote:
    I am looking into this as well. I have just started testing C1 as an alternative to LR's RAW editing. Lightroom will remain my main tool â€" I have a lot invested into my LR catalog, and C1's DAM tools are just too basic for my needs â€" but I am hoping to add C1 as a complimentary RAW editor, to use when LR cannot handle a photograph well.

    I'm still working out my workflow, but right now it looks like it will be:
    • import RAW files into LR, and do all database management and primary editing there

    • If I feel I need to work on a file in C1, I will import it into the C1 catalog for editing.

    • After editing, I will generate a TIFF, and label it so that I know it was created by C1 (e.g. "NK10000_c1.TIF")

    • I will then import the TIFF back into LR and stack it with the original RAW file


    I'm hoping this will allow me to use both to their best advantage. Any advice?


    You have no need to have a CO catalogue. Simply set up a default session, ignore the session folders completely and navigate to the file you want to edit in the system folders section of the Library panel. Edit the RAW file then export it from CO in whatever format you want to wherever you want and re-import into Lightroom. Capture One will store all the edits you did in a sidecar file in the same directory as the original RAW so you can always go back and adjust the work you did on that RAW master and re-export a new version.
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  • OddS.
    IanL wrote:
    I may have missed you answering this before but - what DAM system are you using along with C1?


    I believe I have answered that question before, but I do not remember who asked.

    At this time I evaluate Photo Mechanic Plus (PM+). Regular Photo Mechanic (PM) has been, and still is, my preferred tool for handling image files, essentially everything except processing and printing the graphics. I have tried a few DAMs. So far I always found that PM with some home grown scripts with tools of the (programmer's) trade, bring me what I need. PM is my front end and my back end. C1 and other image (graphics) processing applications, live in the middle.
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  • Ian Leslie
    OddS wrote:
    I believe I have answered that question before, but I do not remember who asked.

    I hope it wasn't me 🤭

    OddS wrote:
    At this time I evaluate Photo Mechanic Plus (PM+). Regular Photo Mechanic (PM) has been, and still is, my preferred tool for handling image files, essentially everything except processing and printing the graphics. I have tried a few DAMs. So far I always found that PM with some home grown scripts with tools of the (programmer's) trade, bring me what I need. PM is my front end and my back end. C1 and other image (graphics) processing applications, live in the middle.


    Interesting. How do you launch C1 to perform your editing and once you are done how do you see the results back in PM? I am also curious what scripts you have written do for you?
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  • NNN637103501950744109
    NNN637068312039505076 wrote:
    Hello,

    Adobe recently announced that they reset all the free trial timers from the past. That makes me eligible to download LR6 and give it another try for 30 days. I'm curious to try it and see if it could compliment C1 or would it compete too much with it? Does anyone here use LR and C1 together? What are your experiences and thoughts on this?
    thanks
    iosman

    ________________________
    https://bestcordlessvacuumx.com


    I use capture one more than lightroom these days. I like it a lot. It's cataloging works fine for my purposes. I can easily rank shots and filter my photos. I can easily apply metadata and tags.

    From an editing perspective its excellent. The color editing and features are top notch and way better than lightroom. I can edit stuff in C1 just as quick if not quicker than lightroom these days. I can round trip my photos from C1 to photoshop and back into C1 easily which is nice. I use photoshop quite a bit still but that's because I shoot portrait / fashion where I need to do lots of frequency seperation.
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  • OddS.
    IanL wrote:
    Interesting.


    Probably not 😉

    IanL wrote:

    How do you launch C1 to perform your editing

    Like most people, I usually open images for edit using C1's browser. Before that, PM has prepared the session folder, copied raw files to <sessionname>/Capture/<subfolder(s)>, done all file renaming, all metadata. PM can get C1 to open the image folder via PM's Edit with or just drag and drop.


    IanL wrote:
    and once you are done how do you see the results back in PM?


    At my place, "done" means processed to output. I just point PM to the relevant output folders.

    IanL wrote:
    I am also curious what scripts you have written do for you?


    Most likely useless for others. I use scripts to dig through image metadata for searches, I load data in a database if needed (like when pairing images with info not in metadata), I merge image data and images with xml documents/templates, typically targeting docbook or tei schemas, I even do some html. Oh, and I fiddle with housekeeping files used by my applications, PM and C1 included. Not very exotic.
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  • Ian Leslie
    OddS wrote:

    Like most people, I usually open images for edit using C1's browser. Before that, PM has prepared the session folder, copied raw files to <sessionname>/Capture/<subfolder(s)>, done all file renaming, all metadata. PM can get C1 to open the image folder via PM's Edit with or just drag and drop.


    Ah cool so you open / create a C1 Session and open that.

    OddS wrote:

    At my place, "done" means processed to output. I just point PM to the relevant output folders.


    Got it - for my work I view the output as throwaway (well after it has been printed or delivered or put on the web) since I can always go back to the single source of truth - the RAW file 😊 if I need the output again.

    I consider this to be the biggest issue I would have with using a separate DAM - having an entry in the database that shows the post edit look but doesn't introduce a duplicate of the RAW file. I was initially very interested in using C1 Sessions with Media Pro since it seemed like a good fit. ☹️ but Phase One killed off Media Pro ☹️

    OddS wrote:

    I use scripts to dig through image metadata for searches, I load data in a database if needed (like when pairing images with info not in metadata),


    I don't know sounds cool actually. I do have another question about the above though: why use scripts to load metadata into a database? Isn't PM setup to do queries to find images based on metadata?
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  • Daniel Sroka
    David532 wrote:

    You have no need to have a CO catalogue. Simply set up a default session, ignore the session folders completely and navigate to the file you want to edit in the system folders section of the Library panel.....


    Thanks for the advice. Hard to break my catalog-centric thinking. I will give this a try.

    Is there anyway to prevent C1 from making all of the session-related folders (Capture, Output, Selects, etc), and just create a sidecar file next to the raw file? (DXO Photolab does this.)
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  • Clau_S
    OddS wrote:

    Like most people, I usually open images for edit using C1's browser. Before that, PM has prepared the session folder, copied raw files to <sessionname>/Capture/<subfolder(s)>, done all file renaming, all metadata. PM can get C1 to open the image folder via PM's Edit with or just drag and drop.


    I was used to do it with Expression Media 2/Media Pro since I bough it, but never thought to go deeper to session folders structure. Essentially because at that time I was used to import pictures directly in the session folder. I preferred to do image ingestion, renaming, rating etc through my DAM but definitely left it behind for different reasons (which probably I can't even remember 😁 ). Most of all I think a not perfect and reliable integration between Media Pro and Capture One, which was awful considering they both came from PO. But lately I'm re-thinking my workflow so I'll give it a new try.

    IanL wrote:
    OddS wrote:

    At my place, "done" means processed to output. I just point PM to the relevant output folders.


    Got it - for my work I view the output as throwaway (well after it has been printed or delivered or put on the web) since I can always go back to the single source of truth - the RAW file 😊 if I need the output again.

    I consider this to be the biggest issue I would have with using a separate DAM - having an entry in the database that shows the post edit look but doesn't introduce a duplicate of the RAW file. I was initially very interested in using C1 Sessions with Media Pro since it seemed like a good fit. ☹️ but Phase One killed off Media Pro ☹️


    What about if you need(ed) to further edit a processed file? I mean, if you throw it away you're going to lose your work and you should remember what you did and do it again. It's unreliable and time consuming to me.

    I keep my Tiffs which, after photoshop work if needed, become my master files. Any other version will come from these and will be archived too. I will go back to Raw editing only if I completely change my mind on something or I want to try a new editor or a new version introduces a feature I want to take advantage of or its new engine has a dramatic impact on the image. But...

    What about if in a far future you won't be able to access your old editor and retrieve your old work? Keeping the output file could be the only way to save it permanently.

    Since I came back to photography I'm trying to re-think my workflow, folders structure etc. I had (and I will keep this approach) two DAM catalogs, one for original (which means both raws and straight out of camera/smartphone jpegs) and one for derivative files. Unfortunately I can't rely on a single program so I won't do without a proper DAM software. One fact is that I've got some old Fuji Raw files that are not editable in Capture One. I've had to convert them to DNG ('cause strangely Media Pro couldn't handle them while Expression Media could) and create a Lightroom catalog out of necessity but I don't want to use it as my DAM 'cause I don't want to rely on something I could decide not to pay for in the future (subscription model flaws). So basically I will have a Lightroom catalog for my old Raw files, a CO catalog for my actual ones (even though I'm still working with sessions to import to catalog later) and a Media Pro 2 comprehensive catalog to collect all of my images in one place and reference them to the other two. Unfortunately the discontinued state of Media Pro introduced other problems in my strategy. My X-T100 Rafs do not reflect Capture One edits in Media Pro 2. That's why master files and a master files catalog are relevant to me. The master file catalog will be the most important one.
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  • Ian Leslie
    dsroka wrote:
    Is there anyway to prevent C1 from making all of the session-related folders (Capture, Output, Selects, etc), and just create a sidecar file next to the raw file? (DXO Photolab does this.)


    Those are two separate things. You can create a session and control the location of those folders but the adjustments are recorded by C1 in a separate sub folder "CaptureOne" and I see no way to change that.

    I just tried creating a session where I used '.' for the sub folder names for each of "Capture", "Selects" and "Output". That created a session with only a "Trash" and "CaputureOne" sub folder under it. The only problem is that the three collections are still there and since they point to the same folder they have the same content which is a little odd and if I am in the Capture collection and move something to the Selects folder via the menu the image disappears from the catalogue until I restart it and then it appears again. So, the directory structure is what you want but the app seems somewhat confused by that structure.
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  • Daniel Sroka
    IanL wrote:
    You can create a session and control the location of those folders but the adjustments are recorded by C1 in a separate sub folder "CaptureOne" and I see no way to change that.


    Thanks for confirming. Having those folders is no big deal, just makes my image folders a little messy.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    dsroka wrote:
    IanL wrote:
    You can create a session and control the location of those folders but the adjustments are recorded by C1 in a separate sub folder "CaptureOne" and I see no way to change that.


    Thanks for confirming. Having those folders is no big deal, just makes my image folders a little messy.

    Well, maybe. On the other hand if you want to look at the contents of those folders with other software or in Finder/Explorer you can do so without the distraction of all the sidecar files.

    Ian
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