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Capture One color rendition (vs LR 5.4)

Brandon Harris
I'm still evaluating C1 7 Pro for my Fuji cameras, and I love the results. I'm working on developing a workflow to integrate both of them, but a solid DAM solution is still eluding me.. Anyway, I've noticed this happens consistently with my dog.. the color rendition between LR and C1 is WAAAAY off.. I actually find the C1 colors more pleasing, but I believe LR to be more accurate.
 
Is there any way to explain this really big difference in color? From what I can tell you cannot modify the working color space in LR, and I'm using the default colorspace in C1 (and set to 'Perceptual'). I'm just concerned, because in this instance even though C1 wasn't as accurate in color, it resulted in a more pleasing result. However, that lack of accuracy could very well work in the opposite direction.
 
Is this perhaps x-trans specific, or has anyone noticed this before with other sensors/conversions? Are there any settings I should be checking on in either C1/LR to make sure color is 'correct'? I tried changing to relative colormetric, absolute, etc.. in C1 and I think the default 'Perceptual' is the best of those. Is it the C1 engine standard behavior, and I just live with it?

I can get the color to match in either app by adjusting hue/saturation, but I want to understand why this is happening in the first place.
 
Anyway, here is a quick screen cap of what I'm talking about. Apologies for not getting the same ratio, I just did a quick cap on the macbook.


Lightroom
 
http://i.imgur.com/dMy1NGGl.jpg
 
C1 7 Pro
 
http://i.imgur.com/dL0oPcel.jpg
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Comments

6 comments

Date Votes
  • Keith Reeder
    NN635318760960450600UL wrote:
    I actually find the C1 colors more pleasing, but I believe LR to be more accurate.

    Subjectively right on the first count, and definitely right on the second - this has been discussed here on numerous occasions, and Phase One staff have confirmed that Capture One profiles aren't intended to be accurate so much as pleasing.
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  • sizzlingbadger
    This is not just a Fuji X issue. All raw convertors will have their own "look" due to their inherent design.

    I shoot mainly Nikon but have a Fuji X-E1 too and all my camera's show pretty much the same phenomenon as you have posted. My D800 seems to have an even stronger colour offset than any other camera in CO which I (and others) have reported. I find the initial LR renditions are more "real life" but the CO renditions more pleasing when people and skin tones are predominant. CO seems to enrich browns and has a slightly brownish tint overall. I expect the colour of your dog exacerbates the effect you are seeing.

    It isn't hard to improve the initial LR renditions, just a little Contrast and/or Clarity and then add a little warmth with the White Balance usually does the trick and brings them in closer to the CO look. CO automates noise reduction and sharpening by default where as LR sets these to a bare minimum so you have to be careful when making comparisons. You can set LR defaults that will vary depending on the ISO the image is shot at, you just have to invest a bit of time upfront.

    When I'm shooting people CO does a nice job but I find it much harder to shoot objects/products and get a good colour balance. I find LR is easier in this respect and it has the Camera Profile Calibration for when I need spot on colour accuracy.

    The latest version of LR (5.4) now contains Camera Profiles that mimic the in-camera jpg settings for many of the Fuji X cameras. These seem to work pretty well if you like the Fuji colours, which are not real life accurate of course 😉
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  • Brandon Harris
    Keith Reeder wrote:
    NN635318760960450600UL wrote:
    I actually find the C1 colors more pleasing, but I believe LR to be more accurate.

    Subjectively right on the first count, and definitely right on the second - this has been discussed here on numerous occasions, and Phase One staff have confirmed that Capture One profiles aren't intended to be accurate so much as pleasing.


    Thanks so much! This makes me feel better (and like I'm not crazy!). I can definitely understand it if the intent was to tend towards aesthetics vs accuracy, I just know to look out for those tones in the future.


    sizzlingbadger wrote:
    This is not just a Fuji X issue. All raw convertors will have their own "look" due to their inherent design.

    I shoot mainly Nikon but have a Fuji X-E1 too and all my camera's show pretty much the same phenomenon as you have posted. My D800 seems to have an even stronger colour offset than any other camera in CO which I (and others) have reported. I find the initial LR renditions are more "real life" but the CO renditions more pleasing when people and skin tones are predominant. CO seems to enrich browns and has a slightly brownish tint overall. I expect the colour of your dog exacerbates the effect you are seeing.

    It isn't hard to improve the initial LR renditions, just a little Contrast and/or Clarity and then add a little warmth with the White Balance usually does the trick and brings them in closer to the CO look. CO automates noise reduction and sharpening by default where as LR sets these to a bare minimum so you have to be careful when making comparisons. You can set LR defaults that will vary depending on the ISO the image is shot at, you just have to invest a bit of time upfront.

    When I'm shooting people CO does a nice job but I find it much harder to shoot objects/products and get a good colour balance. I find LR is easier in this respect and it has the Camera Profile Calibration for when I need spot on colour accuracy.

    The latest version of LR (5.4) now contains Camera Profiles that mimic the in-camera jpg settings for many of the Fuji X cameras. These seem to work pretty well if you like the Fuji colours, which are not real life accurate of course 😉


    Glad to hear it's not just Fuji / x-trans! Yep, I'm using LR 5.4 right now.. I like the options for the film profiles. Now i'm just trying to figure out how to use them both.. it seems like LR has the better DAM, but I'd like to start with CO since it renders so much better (imo). Have to give that some more thought.

    Speaking of the NR on default import, can you set those levels in Capture One for a given ISO (or even just set global defaults?). They work really well, but I don't think I need NR Color/Luminance at 50 for ISO 200.. 😉
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  • Keith Reeder
    nameBrandon wrote:
    but I don't think I need NR Color/Luminance at 50 for ISO 200.. 😉

    Brandon,

    just be aware that the NR defaults are adaptive - 50 at 200 ISO will apply much less NR than 50 at 2000 ISO.

    I actually find the defaults to be pretty much on the money, right up to five-figure ISOs - this is 10,000 ISO out of Capture One from a humble Canon 70D, resized and selectively sharpened in Photoshop, with no other NR applied.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    nameBrandon wrote:
    ...
    Speaking of the NR on default import, can you set those levels in Capture One for a given ISO (or even just set global defaults?).

    You can set defaults on a per camera basis from the tool's action menu (click on small triangle at the right on the tool's header).

    The slider values are relative values tweaked towards the camera's ISO setting.
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  • Brandon Harris
    Keith Reeder wrote:
    nameBrandon wrote:
    but I don't think I need NR Color/Luminance at 50 for ISO 200.. 😉

    Brandon,

    just be aware that the NR defaults are adaptive - 50 at 200 ISO will apply much less NR than 50 at 2000 ISO.

    I actually find the defaults to be pretty much on the money, right up to five-figure ISOs - this is 10,000 ISO out of Capture One from a humble Canon 70D, resized and selectively sharpened in Photoshop, with no other NR applied.


    That is great information! For some reason, I still notice it on even ISO 200 shots. With my dog again (I swear, I do take photos of more than my dog) her brown fur areas will get that semi-plasticy-bad-retouching kind of smooth look. I am glad to know on other shots it is adapting correctly though!

    Really impressive NR on that amp!



    Paul_Steunebrink wrote:
    nameBrandon wrote:
    ...
    Speaking of the NR on default import, can you set those levels in Capture One for a given ISO (or even just set global defaults?).

    You can set defaults on a per camera basis from the tool's action menu (click on small triangle at the right on the tool's header).

    The slider values are relative values tweaked towards the camera's ISO setting.


    Perfect, thank you!!
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