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Crop on Exported Photos

Dizzy82
hello there,

I have a question regarding exported photos - many of exported photos (edited JPEGs), but not all, have some sort of crop applied - is this normal? Any way to remove this in settings? I am attaching a print screen of exported images as they are seen in Photo Mechanic ... you can see that the second photo still has crop which should not be there on exported photos. sometimes all photos has it, sometimes only one ... it is very random.

https://i.ibb.co/rM3QzK3/Screenshot-2020-01-11-at-12-00-54.jpg
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Comments

32 comments

Date Votes
  • Robert Farhi
    Hi Dizzy,

    There is no image attached to your post. Anyway, a crop might be applied by Capture One when a lens distortion correction is needed/requested. Which type of camera/lens do you use ?
    Robert
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  • Dizzy82
    yes, I cannot add any image, have no idea why I cannot add it to the post ... I will try again in a few minutes.

    as for your question - tried with different lenses (Tamron 35 1.8, Nikkor 50 1.8, Nikkor 70-200 and when I manage to post printscreen, the Nikkor 200-500) - sometimes this crop is visible sometimes not ... also tried with various Lens Correction settings, it doesn't make a difference ...
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  • Dizzy82
    finally managed to add printscreen to the opening post.
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  • Robert Farhi
    Thanks for the screenshot. As far as I can see, the crop appears in an other application than Capture One. Which export do you use ? The "output" tool tab, or the "export" (originals or variants) command ?
    Robert
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  • Dizzy82
    yes, printscreen is of Photo Mechanic - I use it for culling, editing metadata (captions) and sending to various FTPs.

    I used everything - the File > Export Images > Variants; or via Output and Process Recipes, same results ...
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  • Robert Farhi
    When I export (whatever the tool is) my cropped images to an other application, such as Photoshop, Affinity Photo, or even Apple's Preview or Photos, they are correctly cropped (as I ask it) and the crop frame doesn't appear in the views. So, maybe this is specific to Photo Mechanic rather than to Capture One. Did you try to export in other apps ?
    Robert
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  • Dizzy82
    so, you gave me an idea to bypass the Photo Mechanic, thought that maybe it is the Photo Mechanic, who is causing the problems ... but I just realised, that all the photos contain crops. I guess when I crop the photos in C1, these crops are "carried" through the export process.

    I opened images in LR, then did another export, opened photos in Finder, and opened them in Camera RAW - the same - all the photos were cropped (not just one as it is seen in my Photo Mechanic print screen image), further more, some settings were also persistent as they all had some WB, shadows and some other corrections applied ...
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  • Robert Farhi
    Hi Saeed,

    When you use the "Output" tool tab, in the "Process Recipe", you can select (adjustment tab) if you want the output to respect or ignore the crop.
    When you export originals (I mean File -> Export Images.... -> originals) you can select if you want to include the adjustments or not.
    And when you export variants (File -> Export Images... -> variants), you can choose if you want (Recipe -> adjustment tab) to respect or ignore the crop.
    Did you try these options ?
    Robert
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Dizzy82 wrote:
    I guess when I crop the photos in C1, these crops are "carried" through the export process.

    Yes, that is the whole idea of Capture One... It applies your adjustments.

    As mentioned in another post, there is a setting to ignore crop on output.
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  • Dizzy82
    I think we are not on the same page here. Of course the whole idea of Capture One is applying adjustments. But - my problem is that exported photo, no matter how I export it, contains these adjustments. Which is unusual - usually you export jpeg and that's it. But my C1 exported photos contain additional crop settings.

    As I stated in my opening post, exported photo contains the "crop" - if I edit photos in every other photo editing software, the exported jpeg image is adjustments free (or, in my case, crop free, it comes out as I cropped it, but does not carry the crop setting through the export). The problem I have with C1 is, that exported jpeg has cropped adjustment ...

    I tried everything that was suggested here, but nothing helps. Some images simply still have crops on them. Like it is seen on the printscreen in the opening post.
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  • SFA
    So what you are saying is that some (all?) exported photos are not actually cropped but show a crop outline overlaid - like in the pasted illustration top row second image from the left?

    If my understanding of the output process (or export?) for a variant is correct that is possible for a PSD file output but not a jpg.

    I have never seen anything like that the output will either be the cropped version of the image of, if "Ignore Crop" is set, the full version but without any crop proposed information.

    Did you crop that image in the way suggested before exporting?

    Is this something you see only using Photo Mechanic on exported/output processed jpg images?


    Grant
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    Also there is an option when creating output as a PSD file to "crop to path". In the adjustments tab in the process recipe. Is that perhaps enabled?

    Ian
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  • Dizzy82
    SFA wrote:
    So what you are saying is that some (all?) exported photos are not actually cropped but show a crop outline overlaid - like in the pasted illustration top row second image from the left?


    yup, just like that. now, Photo Mechanic is a great software, which shows if crop is applied to photo. but even if I do not "touch" the photo in Photo Mechanic, if I just go to Folder and open the photo in Photoshop or Lightroom, the photo is cropped. Furthermore - in Lightroom even more photos are cropped, even if the crop outline is not visible in Photo Mechanic.

    SFA wrote:
    If my understanding of the output process (or export?) for a variant is correct that is possible for a PSD file output but not a jpg.


    yes, I am talking only about jpg photos, I am not using PSD files at all.

    SFA wrote:
    I have never seen anything like that the output will either be the cropped version of the image of, if "Ignore Crop" is set, the full version but without any crop proposed information.


    it happens very randomly. sometimes only a few exported photos contain this crop adjustment (which is exactly the same as the crop in C1, if you understand, so if I crop a photo in C1 then the exported jpg has the exact same crop), sometimes none, sometimes the majority. If I choose "Ignore Crop", nothing happens, photo is exported uncropped.

    Did you crop that image in the way suggested before exporting?

    Is this something you see only using Photo Mechanic on exported/output processed jpg images?


    Grant
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  • Dizzy82
    Ian3 wrote:
    Also there is an option when creating output as a PSD file to "crop to path". In the adjustments tab in the process recipe. Is that perhaps enabled?

    Ian


    as said - I do not use PSD format. only JPG files on export.
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  • SFA
    This all seems very strange.

    I feel a need to better understand Photo Mechanic to see if there is some sort of interesting feature that may be coming into play for some reason.


    Grant
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  • Dizzy82
    having problems with posting images in my posts, hope this works.

    https://kigtva.am.files.1drv.com/y4mHjJG2rjPSoVG1-ZtefuLVDjjGA__iwMHGbgaN75rZI7eKO7NiN_2JDqAuuFaTbMKtCuHbc180wbeZQ55SEGRtbAHvpL4zayixlvaPCpn0Qb8TLFfKpwBLR8BgFxkVUrU7GR_OXBLW6MR2GgoN13L2dcGGWZwEiak3idnJ32k-z09-8D0NUgGMSFiJbxuPZdrkGAmdUT8O0HMl_OuPWAXwA?width=1351&height=818&cropmode=none

    so, here is a printscreen of jpg files as they are seen in Photo Mechanic. no visible crops but then I opened one of the images in Photomechanic Camera RAW (the same would happen in Lightroom) - the image appears to be cropped.

    this is how image should look:

    https://kij30g.am.files.1drv.com/y4mYH5wIonKnm2Xod1UbHE85hmMyqfig8llywC6d2G3pCGr2_wtoDNK74tP1cwD-z4L4THXJAthz2NkYWyzxoUf0qh9Rxe3gyOc5dFEWYVLWVM2IVUsTvvrgEvdGOCQqQLjUfNJqmUiU4T1agI8ADIrazvkJLCXntUUlYy7UzKabUhpFIogV881GPShKY2gQzGshWxugfe7_1Q5jq9EcgtfSg?width=1024&height=576&cropmode=none

    but when opened in Camera Raw, a small crop is applied - it is the same crop I have used during editing in C1.

    https://wqyedq.am.files.1drv.com/y4mGIEh0T9LhyuFn3pj3SvffCO52_bXlnpVkjMEmwMozOeztrdkUdDFI0803Kqhr1wkNtajkFsZbSKOWXWPVpVFf5W_DiZOMEYxUaEHbCaXys_PBCu9aLonrNkBm8ozayIfVE-we-D9dPibGxLu_gCNdxwrAewB-F2M4SlKIjGCx9xsKRLPF23rES8GkTDLwWsCAGLoTGb4cIMw2LK6VpTdlw?width=1920&height=1080&cropmode=none
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  • Dizzy82
    SFA wrote:
    This all seems very strange.

    I feel a need to better understand Photo Mechanic to see if there is some sort of interesting feature that may be coming into play for some reason.


    Grant


    honestly, Photo Mechanic has nothing to do with it - it is just a fast culling machine, making my life much much easier. it is very similar to Adobe Bridge - in fact, I can instal Adobe Bridge to see what happens there ...
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  • SFA
    Dizzy82 wrote:
    SFA wrote:
    This all seems very strange.

    I feel a need to better understand Photo Mechanic to see if there is some sort of interesting feature that may be coming into play for some reason.


    Grant


    honestly, Photo Mechanic has nothing to do with it - it is just a fast culling machine, making my life much much easier. it is very similar to Adobe Bridge - in fact, I can instal Adobe Bridge to see what happens there ...


    I understand that but as I have never seen such an effect in any other viewer when viewing exported or processed jpgs and there seems to be no mechanism about how it might happen one has to wonder how PM is managing to display the image at original size with an indication of a crop overlayed.

    C1 does that for Thumbnails but that's based on having access to the Preview file and/or the Original source image.

    Out of interest, are the jpgs saved in the same folder as the original source files?


    Grant
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  • Dizzy82
    nope, different folder.

    also, installed Bridge, opened the same folder - see little crop marks ... so Adobe Bridge acts the same, there are crops in exported edited jpgs.

    https://i.ibb.co/fGstftZ/Screenshot-2020-01-15-at-14-47-28.jpg

    also, all images are exported in 3600x2400 size and due to crop you can see the new size.

    so yes, I guess there is a setting in C1 that does that, unfortunately I have no idea where this setting is and how to turn it off.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    What I do not get from all the screenshots and text is whether the issue affects a JPG file or a RAW file. And the JPG files, are they from the camera or from Capture One?
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  • Dizzy82
    these are all jpg photos, which were edited in C1 20 and exported.

    so, workflow:
    1) raw photos culled in Photo Mechanic
    2) import into C1 20
    3) edit
    4) export from C1 20
    5) final selection of exported jpgs, adding caption in Photo Mechanic and upload to FTP

    because of the nr.5, the crop on exported photos can be problematic as with some of my clients, editors take over these jpgs and with this crop problem, photos might come out very strangely cropped, if you understand me. with other editing software, exported, edited jpg is a finished work, but in C1 edited finished jpg file contains a crop. as I said, this is a crop I did during edit and somehow this same crop gets through during export and the final edit might look a bit different than it is supposed to.

    I hope you understand me as this is quite difficult to explain. 😊
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  • SFA
    That suggests to me that PM is combining what it knows of the file (at full size) from the initial load (Step 1) with what it gets back from C1 as a "finished" file. Perhaps overlaid in some way?

    In fact it may be doing that will all the images but its only obvious with the cropped images in your workflow.

    I'm guess as I have no knowledge of PM.


    Grant
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  • Grant Hodgeon
    What happens when you clear the crop from an example problem image in PhotoMechanic?

    OPT + C
    SHIFT + C
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    SFA wrote:
    That suggests to me that PM is combining what it knows of the file (at full size) from the initial load (Step 1) with what it gets back from C1as a "finished" file. Perhaps overlaid in some way?

    In fact it may be doing that will all the images but its only obvious with the cropped images in your workflow.

    I'm guess as I have no knowledge of PM.

    That makes some sense, Grant. I do have PM, and use it for years. I had never had this problem but do not have the same workflow.

    @Dizzy82: have you been in touch with PM support? They are a bunch of very helpful guys and girls.
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  • Dizzy82
    again - I really don't think it is Photo Mechanic related thing. same thing happens in Finder, Lightroom, Adobe Bridge ... but only Photo Mechanic and Adobe Bridge show these crops ...

    if I edit photos with the same workflow in LR or Photoshop Camera RAW, exported jpgs are exported jpgs, no additional crops or adjustments whatsoever ...
    also, I always export photos to a completely different folder ... different structure ... one folder with a subfolder contains raw photos and then other folder with different subfolders contain edited exported jpgs.

    I am still trying to reproduce this problem, but sometimes these crop adjustments are not visible until the image is opened in Lightroom ...
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  • Dizzy82
    photoGrant wrote:
    What happens when you clear the crop from an example problem image in PhotoMechanic?

    OPT + C
    SHIFT + C


    luckily, Photo Mechanic (and as I discovered also Adobe Bridge) show these crop overlays and I am also able to remove them with a command but I am a bit afraid one day in a hurry I might send photos to FTP without removing crops and then editor on the other side of the FTP would think that I have no slightest idea about how to properly frame the photos. 😂
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  • SFA
    So if you add a crop to a jpg and export the variant to a completely different folder as a smaller dimension file than the original when you look again at that image you see a full size version, not the reduced size cropped version, with a crop mark indicator displayed over it. DO you get the same result if you edit a RAW file in C1 and export the jpg?

    Have I got that right so far?

    This also happens on your system if you view the C1 generated JPG image using Finder, LR or Adobe Bridge. ?

    But it does not happen if you edit a RAW file in LR or Camera RAW and export to jpg. However if you have cropped the file in LR or ACR before exporting presumably you only see the cropped version? (I'm a little unsure that I fully understand as you also wrote "no additional crops or adjustments whatsoever ..." and in the context of the discussion to date I was not sure whether that meant the resulting output was original full size or the edited crop area size. It's the "additional crops" part that leaves me concerned about assuming I have fully understood.

    Out of interest, what happens if you export as a PSD file with and without the "crop to path" option set?

    Also, for completeness, which JPG file type option are you using?

    JPG, JPG2000, JPG XR or JPG Quickproof?


    Grant
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  • Dizzy82
    you just gave me an idea. usually I only work with RAW files. I did a test with JPG images and exported files are like that, exported, nothing else, final version with nothing else on them.

    I know this one is hard to explain through the world wide web 😊 , but I hope we understand where the problem is.

    so, if I apply crop correction during edit to original jpg photo in C1, then export it, the photo looks like it should. but ...
    if I apply crop correction during edit to original raw photo in C1, then export it, the photo carries the crop applied through the export procedure and is then cropped again (and the crop is exactly the same as I applied it in C1).
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  • Dizzy82
    and just to add a fun fact - my workflow used to be like this (and actually nothing to do with the debate going on here, it's just ... ironic 😄 ):

    1) ingest photos with Photo Mechanic (I still do that, it is so automatic for me I forgot to mention this as step 1 earlier)
    2) culling ingested photo and applying crop corrections in Photo Mechanic (much faster than doing this in LR/PS Camera Raw)
    3) import images to Lightroom/Photoshop Camera Raw
    4) Lightroom/PS Camera Raw sensed these crops, add basic color correction
    5) export images to Photo Mechanic, add captions, rename, send to FTP

    now, due to Capture One not sensing crops from Photo Mechanic I stopped doing that and also later versions of LR and Photoshop Camera Raw fixed this immense lag during crop corrections so I started cropping in C1/LR/PS again - and now the opposite thing is happening ... images after edit have crops. funny in a way. 😂 😂
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  • Bob van Ooik
    The problem is coming from Capture One. This (wrong) crop info is somehow included in the metadata on export. If you unclick 'All other metadata' in your recipe this info is not included. Unfortunately, it means I lose vital other metadata so I left it included. After export I go into the folder in Photomechanic, select all and then Tools>Remove Crops... Now all exported files are as they should have been.
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