Star Ratings and Edits lost

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20 comments

  • SFA
    Very strange.

    Based on your description I have to ask - are both sessions looking at the same original images in the same folder?

    If it's not some sort of Auto read from an externally set sidecar file the only other thing I can think of is an automatically run Applescript of some sort.

    Did you try "Undo"?

    Do you have a backup (or sequence of backups)?

    Have you checked the log files to see if they offer an clues about what may have been happening?


    Grant
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    You might want to check the consistency of the session database files. Go to File menu > Verify Catalog or Session.
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    No, they are two separate sessions. I did a photo shoot on 11/2, for which I created a session that contained all 1,579 images from that shoot. I did another photo shoot on 11/16, for which I created a separate session that contained the 2,078 images from that shoot. Each session and the associated images exist in separate folders.

    Undo didn't work.

    My most recent backup (using Carbon Copy Cloner on Mac) was from a few days before I had done all this work. My fault for not backing up immediately after an editing/culling session.

    I made a COLogs zip file but I don't really know what to do with it.

    I seem to be able to reproduce the problem. If I open up my 11/16 session (which is one of the affected sessions), select all images and apply a 5-star rating to all, and then go open up an old session from way back on, say, 4/21, when I go and re-open the 11/16 session, the images will start reverting back to 0-star. Oddly, though, not all of them. Of the 2,078 images in 11/16, 624 of them retained the 5-star rating. (I repeated this process a second time and got 625, 5-star images retained. Then repeated a 3rd time and got 626, 5-star images retained. One 5-star image is somehow added each time I do this.)

    For a minute, I thought I was on to something. I thought maybe this was because both the 4/21 and the 11/16 sessions contain images that have the same filename (to be clear, though, they are in separate folders and separate sessions).

    My camera (Nikon Z6) names files "DSC_0001" through "DSC_9999" and then goes back to "DSC_0001". In other words, it re-starts the naming at "DSC_0001 every ten-thousand images. But the filenames in 4/21 are 3061 through 4220, and the filenames in 11/16 are 7468 through 9546. They don't have any filenames in common. So then I thought, perhaps there are other sessions containing images with the same filenames as the 11/16 session. I have been jumping around from session to session a lot, after all, and maybe that's the problem. So I looked in all the sessions, and my 6/23 session does indeed contain some images that have filenames that overlap with the ones in 11/16. The 6/23 session contains images with filenames 6955 through 7994, so there's overlap with the 11/16 session (7468 through 9546).

    But this doesn't explain why the 11/2 session is affected. It contains images with filenames 5001 through 6579. It does not appear to have filenames that overlap with other sessions I've been working on.

    The one thing that seems to be consistent is that the problem of the star-rating reversion occurs when I go back an open up an old session/older shoot, and then re-open the 11/2 or 11/16 sessions.
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    [quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
    You might want to check the consistency of the session database files. Go to File menu > Verify Catalog or Session.


    I tried this and I get the message "Database Verification OK" but the issue persists.
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Very strange.

    Based on your description I have to ask - are both sessions looking at the same original images in the same folder?

    If it's not some sort of Auto read from an externally set sidecar file the only other thing I can think of is an automatically run Applescript of some sort.

    Did you try "Undo"?

    Do you have a backup (or sequence of backups)?

    Have you checked the log files to see if they offer an clues about what may have been happening?


    Grant


    Thanks Grant for your reply and sorry I did not quote your post. I'm new to the forum and not sure how to reply directly to you. See above for a (lengthy!) reply.
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  • Clau_S
    [quote="NN635195804961800916UL" wrote:


    My most recent backup (using Carbon Copy Cloner on Mac) was from a few days before I had done all this work. My fault for not backing up immediately after an editing/culling session.


    [quote="NN635195804961800916UL" wrote:


    In my Preferences > Images > Metadata, I had the defaults. Auto Sync Sidecar XMP was set to "None". The box for "Prefer Embedded XMP over Embedded IPTC" was unchecked. The box for "Prefer Sidecar XMP over Embedded Metadata" was checked. The session file and associate files and folders all live on the onboard SSD, and the images and folders have not been moved or renamed.


    I cannot help with your issue but considering the two quoted parts I could give you a suggest for the future that could be a workaround to save your metadata.

    Obviously backups are important but your issue could affect the session backup too when you're going to open it and your work won't be safe.

    Sidecar XMP files could save you. If you set Auto Sync to None, XMP files neither get created nor read. If set to Load, Capture One will load metadata from XMP files if they differ from the internal database. With Full Sync it will also write the XMP file and update it as soon as you change something inside CO.

    Probably Full Sync won't suit your needs 'cause if CO will change ratings and color tags on its own, changes should be written into XMP files too. But, you can sync them manually writing XMP files only when you need them and keep these as metadata backups to load if CO goes mad.

    In this case, after applying ratings and labels (and other kind of metadata too) select the images, right click and choose Sync Metadata. Remember to enable "edit all selected". This way XMP files will be created and will store your metadata edits. If something goes wrong you can select images again, right click them and choose "Load Metadata" to restore them.

    You can set Auto Sync to Load too but I don't think this will prevent your issue from happening and probably won't restore metadata automatically. Also another issue is that XMP files store metadata only for the first variant. If you create more variants of a single picture and apply different ratings or labels something could be lost.

    Since you're testing a lot, try this: apply a rating to all of your images and sync. After reproducing the issue, load ratings back.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NN635195804961800916UL" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Very strange.

    Based on your description I have to ask - are both sessions looking at the same original images in the same folder?

    If it's not some sort of Auto read from an externally set sidecar file the only other thing I can think of is an automatically run Applescript of some sort.

    Did you try "Undo"?

    Do you have a backup (or sequence of backups)?

    Have you checked the log files to see if they offer an clues about what may have been happening?


    Grant


    Thanks Grant for your reply and sorry I did not quote your post. I'm new to the forum and not sure how to reply directly to you. See above for a (lengthy!) reply.


    There are, so far as I know, no direct reply options in the forum. So no direct reply ever expected!

    I'm not Mac user so not too familiar with possible problems however what you describe sort of reads like something is getting loaded into memory (you old session information) and not being removed/replaced when you change sessions.

    Do you have both sessions loaded at the same time? Nothing wrong with that if you do but I'm wondering of there is some factor related to temporary file/working memory that is playing up here and whether it would work differently if a session is fully closed before another is opened or not.

    For testing this theory I suppose knowing the numbers for each rating or colour or whatever in the "old" session last opened and then opening one of the New sessions might offer a clue if the could comes out the same.

    Obviously that should not be happening but then computers can be unruly things some times.

    In a slightly different context and related to Windows rather than Mac on the rare occasions when I have some odd events going on, usually related to something that happens after an unexpected failure or some sort, I have taken to restarting the compueter 2 or sometimes 3 times without loading any more than the bootup apps.

    My rationale is that if something unexpected has happened there will likely be work files lying around in the system because the normal clean-up process did not happen.

    An OS will usually try to clean up on a re-start after a 'catastrophic' event but may not find everything that is wrong on a single pass - especially if its clean up logic is based on matching dependencies and there may be a chain of dependencies to assess.

    Re-booting a few times may allow it to do a more thorough job in certain circumstances. With the arrival of SSD drives the reboot cycle became far less onerous in terms of time lost than with spinning drives and so apply the policy, whether useful or not, is no real penalty but maybe not so good if using traditional drives.

    It may not be relevant to your situation but, other than the Auto sidecar update of metadata you have already looked into I can't think of anything else that would give such a result and I don't recall this sort of problem ever being reported and not turning out to be a sidecar update issue of some sort.

    One other thought.

    If you are using a session the edit instructions files will be stored in sub folder of the source image folder and the sub folder will be named for the version preforming the editing So an older session, opened in a newer version of C1 with the SESSION database file converted should have both the older version and the new version edits held separately. For example in folders called Settings120 for V12 and Settings130 for V20.

    It might be worth checking for that and comparing the contents of the folders and the dates of the files. Just to see if that throws up any odd results. It might produce some other ideas for things to investigate.

    Grant
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres


    I'm not Mac user so not too familiar with possible problems however what you describe sort of reads like something is getting loaded into memory (you old session information) and not being removed/replaced when you change sessions.

    Do you have both sessions loaded at the same time? Nothing wrong with that if you do but I'm wondering of there is some factor related to temporary file/working memory that is playing up here and whether it would work differently if a session is fully closed before another is opened or not.

    Grant


    Only one session is loaded at a time.

    I have been doing a lot of testing today. Sadly, it seems that many more of my sessions are affected, and I will likely have to redo A LOT of work.

    Ok, so here's what I learned today:

    In my previous post, I noted that the problem seems to occur when working on a recent session, say 11/16 (Nov 16), then going back to an old session, say 4/21 (April 21), and then returning to the recent session, 11/16. I can watch as C1, on its own, selects each image in the film strip and, in rapid succession, reverts the star-ratings and edits.

    What I observed today, though, is that this problem only seems to occur if I move around between older and newer sessions using "File > Open Recent" from within C1.

    If, instead, I use "File > Close All", then quit C1 completely, then in Mac's Finder, navigate to the location of the actual ".cosessiondb" file and launch the session by double clicking that file, I seem to be able to retain star-ratings and edits.

    In other words, if I'm working on my 11/16 session but I want to do some work on my 4/21 session, and then come back to 11/16 at a later time, I have to:

    1. In the 11/16 session, click File > Close All
    2. Quit C1
    3. Go to Finder
    4. Navigate to the folder where I keep my 4/21 session and images
    5. Click on the ".cosessiondb" for 4/21 session
    6. Open and work on my 4/21 session
    7. In the 4/21 session, click File > Close All
    8. Quit C1
    9. Go to Finder
    10. Navigate to the folder where I keep my 11/21 session and images
    11. Click on the ".cosessiondb" for 11/21 session.
    12. Open and work on 11/21 session.

    If I do this, it seems I can avoid losing my star-ratings and edits.

    BUT, this is sketchy and not something I can trust in the long term.

    And it seems that opening some sessions this way still might do something weird, sometimes. C1 will select through all the images in rapid succession, remove edits briefly, then restore the edits (but at least star-ratings and edits are retained).

    I also noticed that when I scroll down in grid view, I can see images in the filmstrip briefly distort, as if the preview that is being shown is being updated with a new preview. This does not happen every time I launch an affected session, but it should not happen at all.

    Anyway, to summarize here, I seem to experience the problem when using "File > Open Recent" to move between older and newer sessions, but things are improved (but maybe not completely solved), by instead using "File > Close All", quitting C1 completely, and launching my session from the ".cosessiondb" file.
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    POSSIBLE SOLUTION WITH EXPLANATION (TL;DR at the end):

    I've been trying and testing different solutions for the last two days, and it seemed that by using "File > Close All" and opening ".cosessiondb" files directly from their location in Finder, I was able to avoid losing my star ratings.

    But there were still 3 sessions affected by a weird display glitch. When I opened any of these three sessions and displayed the grid view, I could see the images briefly distort and the thumbnail preview regenerate as I scrolled up or down. Or if I opened the session and clicked on an image to show it in the viewer, it would appear blurred or pixelated for a while, then suddenly C1 would start going through each image in rapid succession, as if the right arrow key was being pressed and the viewer is showing me a really fast slideshow.

    I tried a complete uninstall of C1, using Terminal in MacOS and typing in commands to manually remove all of C1's preference files. And I removed any and all C1 related files in MacOS. (I found instructions for this on support.captureone.com). I reinstalled, but I was actually still experiencing the display glitch mentioned above.

    I also tried delete the affected ".cosessiondb" files and their associated folders, but this didn't work either.

    I was just about to give up and decided to try one more thing, it's surprisingly simple and seems to be working for now (but I'm continuing to test it).

    I figured the problem has something with how C1 handles image metadata. Normally, when I create a new session, I just go to the Library tool and go to "System Folders" and navigate to the folder containing the images I want to work on. I don't import them into the session. And I create a new session file for each new photo shoot, and use that session only for the associated photo shoot (example: I did a photo shoot on 12/21, so I create a session for it and in Library > System Folders navigated to the 12/21 folder). But I thought, maybe I have accidentally clicked other folders from other photo shoots (unlikely), or maybe C1 is somehow mixing up metadata from other shoots (I don't know how but it's the best explanation I've got). I needed a way to isolate metadata from a given shoot/folder/session from other shoots.

    So I opened each affected session, selected all images in the session, and moved all of them into the "Capture Folder" which is one of the four automatically generated Session Folders. C1 physically moves the files in Finder, so it will take a minute. Now, when I switch between different sessions, I'm no longer seeing the display glitch, and my star-ratings are retained.

    I plan to do this with all active and future sessions as a first step. It really sucks that I lost all the star ratings on the two most recent sessions. I'll have to redo all that culling/rating. Older sessions, which at first looked like they retained their star-ratings, were affected too. Each time I'd open those sessions, there would be slight changes to the number of images listed next to each star rating. A session might have 50, 5-star images, for example. But each time I'd re-open that session, there would be on less 5-star image, and 1 more zero-star image. So 50, 5-star images became 49, then 48, then 47, so on, with each opening/closing of the session. I have no explanation for that. For the moment, at least, I have a solution that appears to be working.

    tl;dr
    Problem: C1 was automatically removing my star-ratings, resetting them all to zero, while also resetting edits on all images within several of my Sessions.
    Solution: From now on, when I create a new session, I will be putting all the images in the "Capture Folder". I think this help to "isolate" the metadata so that it's not getting mixed up with other shoots/folders/sessions.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="NN635195804961800916UL" wrote:

    So I opened each affected session, selected all images in the session, and moved all of them into the "Capture Folder" which is one of the four automatically generated Session Folders. C1 physically moves the files in Finder, so it will take a minute. Now, when I switch between different sessions, I'm no longer seeing the display glitch, and my star-ratings are retained.

    Could it perhaps be that you move images from a system folder to the Capture folder with Finder and not with Capture One? That at least would explain that you lost your ratings and adjustments.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    [quote="NN635195804961800916UL" wrote:
    (...)
    Normally, when I create a new session, I just go to the Library tool and go to "System Folders" and navigate to the folder containing the images I want to work on. I don't import them into the session. And I create a new session file for each new photo shoot, and use that session only for the associated photo shoot ...

    I can understand that a photographer uses a session per shoot and use the Session folders (Capture, Output, etc.). I can also understand that a photographer uses only one session, neglects the Session folders and use System Folders instead.

    But you create a session per shoot and neglect the session and browse the System Folders. What is your purpose of creating a new session each time?

    Just curious.
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  • SFA
    Using the Capture Folder is a good idea since it also facilitates easy management of the session as a whole for backup purposes, copying to new locations, etc.

    I also use import and its renaming feature to give the incoming files some useful naming convention for the future.

    As hinted at in an earlier post, C1 will happily access the same files in multiples sessions if so desired.

    A session keeps the metadata and all edits with some few exceptions (E.G. Layer masks have separate files, LCC correction files are also separately referenced if you ever use them) in <file name>.cos files in a subfolder of the CaptureOne subfolder in the image location folder. (Settings120 for V12, Settings130 for V20 ...)

    You do not have to have a folder inside a default session file structure (as you already know).

    You can associate a folder with a session by making it a "Favourite" so that the session always checks for that folder when you open it.

    You can also open a folder form a session without making it a favourite. Such a favourite, unless made a "favourite", will not be a retained reference when you close the session.

    Now, NORMALLY if you open an existing folder, favourite or not, from within a session, C1 will check for the existence of the subfolders foe Settings AND the Cache folder that contains already prepared Thumbnails (for the Browser Window) and Previews (For the Viewer Window.)

    Where they exist C1 will usually use those files and so all previous edits and metadata adjustments would be retained. You would simply be editing previously edited files in a different session.

    HOWEVER - if you happen to IMPORT the files from a previously adjusted folder, (I.E Import to give them a permanent reference in the session but leave them at the current location ) there is an option tick box for "Include Existing Adjustments". By default it is NOT selected. It is in a the Adjustments section of the imports tools.

    So if you happened to use import, selected a folder that contained images that had been previously edited and did not tick the "Included Existing Adjustments" box C1 would take that as in instruction to create a new settings/edit file for each image.

    If you were using the same version of C1 that created the existing edit files they would be replaced. I think this is the behaviour you are seeing.

    If you use a different version of C1 I would expect a new version related Settings folder to be added with fresh edit files BUT that the older version's settings files would be retained as they are.

    If you tick the box and you are using the same version of C1 (but a different session) the existing edits would be used as they are. Any changes you make will appear in BOTH sessions.

    If you tick the box but your are using a different version of C1 I would expect C1 to create a NEW Settings folder for the currently used version and populate it with a copy of the old settings file before offering the files for editing. The OLD Settings files folder would be left in place.

    For the "events" I shoot I use a dedicated, self contained Session and import the files, suitably renamed, into the Session folder structure, usually into subfolders in the "Capture" folder. Doing so just makes it a lot easier to "Manage" the session.

    For less focussed activity - random nature shots or something like that - I typically have an "open" style session where the folders may be referenced bit the files not imported. If necessary I will make the folders "favourites" to retain the session's connection to them for future potential use but anything that I may not be interested in long term I do not import or make a favourite. Test shots for hardware assessment would be a good example of something that is likely to be of temporary interest usually.

    Sessions are incredibly flexible concepts that avoid the overhead of large Catalogues when processing and can be very easy to manage to an archive BUT they do benefit from taking some time to understand the options available when using them in order to make the most of them. It's not difficult and it is logical BUT it's also really easy to just dive in and feel a little lost when starting out - partly because it is an open approach that does not force a controlled process onto users.

    As I recall I was about 9 months into using C1 (successfully in my opinion at the time but wondering if I could find additional benefits) when I took a few hours out to better understand what what possible for my needs at the time. ( I was running C1 alongside another very similar application and sharing files - but the other application had no obvious DAM function to speak of - So no catalogue or session file - just the OS Folder and file system and its own sidecar files just like a session.)

    Realising that I could beneficially use the self contained Session folder structure for both applications if needed it was easy to see the benefits for managing shoots by session using the default session folder structure and once I started to do that my detailed understanding improved and life got a lot easier.

    I also came to realise that I did not need the other application.

    So in summary I think that what you are experiencing is likely the result somehow "sharing" folders across sessions in a way that replaces existing edits rather than using them. The only obvious way that I can think of C1 doing that is via the "import" process using the same C1 version and an unticked "Include Existing Adjustments" box.

    If that is not a satisfactory explanation of what you are seeing then further investigation may be useful but avoiding the issue by creating self contained sessions is a very sensible approach for an immediate "fix".


    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    To clarify, this is the typical process I go through once I have completed another photo shoot.

    1. Create a new folder on my Macbook SSD, called "YYYY.MM.DD". The filepath to the photos looks like this:
    Macintosh HD > Users > Username > Pictures > YYYY Photography > YYYY.MM.DD

    2. Insert memory card and copy all raw files from the memory card to the new folder.

    3. Open C1.

    4. Create a new session, named "YYYY.MM.DD" and put it in the same folder as the raw files. The file path is the same as in step 1, above.

    5. From within C1, in the Library Tool, under "System Folders", I point C1 to the folder I just created and wait for previews to build.

    6. Star-ratings, edits, export, etc.

    7. Quit C1.

    I want to clarify that I do not use the "Import" dialog with sessions. (I import when using catalogs but I haven't been using catalogs for the shoots in question). Also, once the session is created, I do not move or alter the raw files from outside C1, because I'm aware of the problems that can cause. From within C1, I use the Library Tool to point C1 to the folder where my photos are contained.

    The issue I experienced occurred after I had already been through the process (steps 1 through 7 above). I re-opened a session to continue working on it after I had already applied star-ratings and edits, when I watched as my star-ratings and edits disappeared (I even made screen-capture recordings).

    Since then, I have started moving all my photos into the "Capture" folder that is automatically generated by C1 when a new session is created. I have done this from within C1. (The new filepath is Macintosh HD > Users > Username > Pictures > YYYY Photography > YYYY.MM.DD > YYYY.MM.DD > Capture) (The image folder-name and the session-name are both "YYYY.MM.DD". Do you think this is a problem?)

    By doing this, I'm hoping that the different sessions I'm working on are effectively "isolated" from each other, since the problem seems to involve C1 somehow commingling different sessions together. Or at least, that's my hypothesis.

    For the moment, this seems to have stopped the issue and my star-ratings and edits are being retained. Now I'm going through my sessions and re-doing my star ratings and edits.

    But I fear that I may encounter the same issue again. I posted about this issue in the C1 Facebook group and found 2 (or 3?) other users who experienced the same issue, one of whom was using the "Capture" folder to store her photos, as I'm doing now.

    There's no obvious cause or trigger for this issue. It sounds like it's intermittent, and unpredictable, and that's kind of scary.

    And still no word from C1 tech support.
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  • Paul Steunebrink
    Unintentionally and unknowingly you rather overcomplicated your workflow, and when it starts going wrong, there is no help.

    You are already heading into the right direction by using a session as a session. I suggest you remove one YYYY.MM.DD folder level in your file path as it does not seem to serve any purpose. Your workflow could be like this:

    1. In your ../Pictures/YYYY Photography folder, you create a session named YYYY.MM.DD
    2. You import the images from your card into the Capture Folder of the session with the CO import tool
    3. Open the Capture folder from that Library, Session Folders section.

    Done.

    By staying away from the System Folders section, you prevent accessing images from another session then they were edited with. This should not induce any issue, but apparently it does.
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  • SFA
    I agree with Paul, having originally operated in a similar way to your description for a few months (the excuse being that I was also working with my previous favoured editor) I took a second look and decided that using the Session creation and import facilities available was a much more effective option. Better still once I recognised the benefits of setting up useful file naming on import.

    Nevertheless your description leaves some puzzles.

    Firstly can we confirm that under

    Edit > Preferences > Image (Tab)

    the value for the Metadata section shows "Auto Sync Sidecar XMP" to be "None".

    Secondly, using the Mac system rather than C1, you can see in the folder that contains the Images you are using as originals a subfolder named "CaptureOne" and that this subfolder has in it 2 more subfolders, one called "Cache" and the other "Settings120". The "120" will indicate version 12.

    If so open the Settings120 folder and you should see some files with the same names as your original files but with the file name extension .cos . I assume you should be able to see the created date and time and edited/changed date and time for those files. (I can as a Windows user bit have no MAC related experience to draw on in the case that what you can see is different.)

    How do those dates and times match with the dates and times you worked on the files setting stars, ratings, etc?

    Finally you mention "export".

    "6. Star-ratings, edits, export, etc. "

    What does "export" refer to in this context? Export what to where?

    Sorry for the further questions but what you are seeing is certainly not typical user experience other the potential for using 2 different metadata management applications and having the "AutoSyc" settings set up, inadvertently, to give results that conflict with what was intended.

    HTH


    Grant
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    [quote="Paul_Steunebrink" wrote:
    Unintentionally and unknowingly you rather overcomplicated your workflow, and when it starts going wrong, there is no help.

    You are already heading into the right direction by using a session as a session. I suggest you remove one YYYY.MM.DD folder level in your file path as it does not seem to serve any purpose. Your workflow could be like this:

    1. In your ../Pictures/YYYY Photography folder, you create a session named YYYY.MM.DD
    2. You import the images from your card into the Capture Folder of the session with the CO import tool
    3. Open the Capture folder from that Library, Session Folders section.

    Done.

    By staying away from the System Folders section, you prevent accessing images from another session then they were edited with. This should not induce any issue, but apparently it does.


    The steps you outlined above are exactly what I intend to do going forward.

    The reason there's two "YYYY.MM.DD" in my file paths in all my recent sessions is because I had to move my photos into the "Capture Folder" (from within C1) after this whole issue began. Since my Session-Name and ImageFolder-name happened to be the same, the "YYYY.MM.DD" was duplicated in the file path. Until that point, I had never had this problem. I could use sessions (as sessions) and point C1 to System Folders under Library with no issues.

    I just hope this doesn't happen again, as it has cost me A LOT of time.
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    I agree with Paul, having originally operated in a similar way to your description for a few months (the excuse being that I was also working with my previous favoured editor) I took a second look and decided that using the Session creation and import facilities available was a much more effective option. Better still once I recognised the benefits of setting up useful file naming on import.

    Nevertheless your description leaves some puzzles.

    Firstly can we confirm that under

    Edit > Preferences > Image (Tab)

    the value for the Metadata section shows "Auto Sync Sidecar XMP" to be "None".

    Secondly, using the Mac system rather than C1, you can see in the folder that contains the Images you are using as originals a subfolder named "CaptureOne" and that this subfolder has in it 2 more subfolders, one called "Cache" and the other "Settings120". The "120" will indicate version 12.

    If so open the Settings120 folder and you should see some files with the same names as your original files but with the file name extension .cos . I assume you should be able to see the created date and time and edited/changed date and time for those files. (I can as a Windows user bit have no MAC related experience to draw on in the case that what you can see is different.)

    How do those dates and times match with the dates and times you worked on the files setting stars, ratings, etc?

    Finally you mention "export".

    "6. Star-ratings, edits, export, etc. "

    What does "export" refer to in this context? Export what to where?

    Sorry for the further questions but what you are seeing is certainly not typical user experience other the potential for using 2 different metadata management applications and having the "AutoSyc" settings set up, inadvertently, to give results that conflict with what was intended.

    HTH


    Grant


    I can confirm that "Auto Sync Sidecar XMP" is set to "None".

    I can look in the "Settings120" subfolder and see ".cos" files and see "Date Modified" updated when I work on the corresponding image. BUT, I'm doing this now after having completely uninstalled C1 v12 (~a week ago now) and re-installing and rebuilding the 2 (actually 3) sessions whose star-ratings and edits were completely wiped out. So things are working fine, for the time being.

    After editing the raw file in C1, I generally export as a .psd file for further editing/retouching in Photoshop. I use a process recipe and have C1 generate the .psd file and place it in a folder called "YYYY.MM.DD_Edits". That folder is a subfolder that lives in the same folder as all my images. The path used to look like this: "Macintosh HD > Users > Username > Pictures > YYYY Photography > YYYY.MM.DD > YYYY.MM.DD_Edits.

    (I prefer exporting as .psd files since I noticed some weird and subtle changes in brightness and contrast when exporting TIFF files).

    Once I'm done editing an image in Photoshop, and this might sound strange, but I use a Lightroom catalog to browse and export my .psd files. I only import images in LR from the "YYYY.MM.DD_Edits" folder. I do not use LR to import or edit any raw files. This way, there are no conflicts with LR and C1 trying to import the same collection of images. I realize this might be strange, but this is the workflow I've come up with that works for me. I've been doing the since C1 v8.

    If no further editing/retouching in Photoshop is required, I will have C1 export as a jpeg to a folder on my desktop called "For Web" or "For Instagram" etc. I have (or used to have, before the uninstall/reinstall), process recipes to generate whatever size I might need.
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  • SFA
    Since you have regular use of Photoshop it seems to me to be entirely reasonable to manage your psd files the way you do it.

    If you have a backup of the user settings folders you might be able to recover you output recipes - but then if they are familiar to you recreating them might be considerably quicker.

    I would expect things to work as you wish them to from now on. However it would have been good to know what caused the problems in the first place just in case anyone stumbles into the same situation in the future.

    That said the one time I had something similar working in a session (at every 10th, approximately, image C1 would freeze then crash) if turned out to be a single .cos file that appeared to have a compromised index/pointer in the OS file system.

    Once the cos file was deleted all was normal again.

    Glad you have things working as expected now.


    Grant
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  • Carlos Chavez-Torres
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Since you have regular use of Photoshop it seems to me to be entirely reasonable to manage your psd files the way you do it.

    If you have a backup of the user settings folders you might be able to recover you output recipes - but then if they are familiar to you recreating them might be considerably quicker.

    I would expect things to work as you wish them to from now on. However it would have been good to know what caused the problems in the first place just in case anyone stumbles into the same situation in the future.

    That said the one time I had something similar working in a session (at every 10th, approximately, image C1 would freeze then crash) if turned out to be a single .cos file that appeared to have a compromised index/pointer in the OS file system.

    Once the cos file was deleted all was normal again.

    Glad you have things working as expected now.


    Grant


    I have been re-doing my star-ratings. But do you suppose it would make sense to batch rename my files so that all filenames are unique?

    Going back to my first couple posts, I wondered if the fact that a given filename, say, "DSC_0001" could exists in more than one session, somehow contributed to the problem. My camera names files such that after "DSC_9999" it resets back to "DSC_0001". Of course, I have no sessions that exceed 10,000 images, but the filename "DSC_0001" may appear across multiple sessions. The multiple instances of that particular filename would be different images from different shoots and they'd be in separate sessions, contained in different folders, so there should be no problem. But I wondered if my constant jumping around to different sessions is what caused C1 to somehow mix up metadata. This is just pure speculation on my part, though. When I tried to see if photos with the same filename were specifically affected, I didn't see a clear pattern.

    Anyway, now I wonder if renaming my already existing files (from within their sessions), and, in the future, renaming on import with a unique identified (like the date), is a way to prevent this issue from occurring again.

    Would it make sense also to move my session containing folder up one level so that "YYYY.MM.DD" is not repeated in the filepath?

    From this:
    Macintosh HD > Users > Username > Pictures > YYYY Photography > YYYY.MM.DD > YYYY.MM.DD

    To this:
    Macintosh HD > Users > Username > Pictures > YYYY Photography > YYYY.MM.DD >

    by dragging and dropping the session containing folder in Finder? Or am I going to risk messing things up?

    Thanks!!
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  • SFA
    Your question remind me of my early days with C1 before I stopped, stood back and decided to take a more considered approach. (My early use was influenced by using a very similar sort of product that had no DAM facility and I used C1 Sessions (no Catalog functionality back then) in parallel on the same files in the same folder structure ...

    Yes, if you have folder names that duplicate/repeat knowing where you are can be quite challenging just when you don't want it to be.

    Yes, duplicate file names are a complete pain and extremely unhelpful as the weeks, months and especially the years pass by. It's worse if you have multiple cameras in use and the file 'names' on a shoot happen to coincide ...

    So now I almost always (brief use random test shots may be an exception) use the Import facility for anything that will likely be retained.

    In most cases I will create a new session (I'm a session rather than a catalogue person) for a shoot although I do have a few "Open" session where I group the more random shots that fit specific subject matter (for example) but do not justify their own session.

    I mostly stay with the default session folder structure (and of course the 'virtual' folders that relate to them as a default) but on import may choose to have C1 create sub-folders in the Capture folder for further grouping of some sort. Usually something available in the meta data to make life easy but not always.

    For example if shooting with multiple cameras (different models) it can make sense to group by camera so that 'standard' adjustments that are likely to apply to all of that camera's images are easily grouped together while avoiding a filter/search through a larger number of files.

    I also use the Import facility to name the files typically using a combination of text and tokens to do so as the facility provides for.

    That way whatever happens to the file (other than further renaming) I know its origin and as I usually include the date (shooting events that is especially helpful in archive terms) in YYYYMMDD format I have visibility of what, where and when without any need to dig into metadata.

    Renaming can be undertaken with similar results within C1 if required. You would need to be sure that doing that for existing historic images would not conflict with any other application relationships.

    In summary - yes, renaming makes sense in my opinion, especially if the naming is meaningful. You may find it beneficial to come up with a naming convention plan to maximise the long term benefit and the sort term effort required for the activity. Simplifying the folder structure also makes sense for ease of use and avoiding confusion and careful naming - being mindful of a convention that would avoid potential for confusion - makes sense.

    My advice would be to take some time looking at the session import process and its options and then looking at the batch renaming options. In both cases consider not so much the operational details but rather how the concepts look like they could be useful to you and your objectives. Don't forget that you also have searches and filter available so there are plenty of options available for find images without having to structure folders (or even file names) in too much detail. Sufficient information to be reasonably identifiable even outside C1 (should that be necessary at some point) is all that is really required for maximum benefit derived form least effort.


    HTH.


    Grant
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