Noise reduction

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11 comments

  • SFA
    Presumably you have found the Noise Reduction tool?

    There are some techniques that one might apply that might include the use of other tools or the way that things are set up when shooting but I'm not aware of anything more specifically called an "Advanced Noise tool" other than the advanced nature of the Noise Reduction tool.

    Can you rediscover the tutorials you refer to so that we can take those as a starting point?

    Were they Phase One created Capture One tutorials?


    Grant
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  • NNN636838676420114345
    Hi Grant,
    Yes, I found the Noise reduction tool, thanks:) Normally I would fix noise then add sharpening, but in C1, does the order of applying adjustments matter?

    And now that I went back to find the video, I see that it was CApture one v6! So you have probably consolidated all the sliders into one tab ...
    ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-AnwH-35rY

    In any case, I have messed up some family portraits with a high ISO setting on my Sony a7iii (4000 and 6400), so if you have any ideas on how to keep the facial detail and get rid of the noise, I'm all ears!!

    Thanks!
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  • NNN636838676420114345
    One other little thing I noticed is that once I made adjustments in C1 and go to photoshop for a mini liquify, the colour is not the same once the file opens in PS. Why is this happening?

    The same thing happens with a B&W file, it's more mutted and dull in PS than in C1...

    Thanks again
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636838676420114345" wrote:
    Hi Grant,
    Yes, I found the Noise reduction tool, thanks:) Normally I would fix noise then add sharpening, but in C1, does the order of applying adjustments matter?

    And now that I went back to find the video, I see that it was CApture one v6! So you have probably consolidated all the sliders into one tab ...
    ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-AnwH-35rY

    In any case, I have messed up some family portraits with a high ISO setting on my Sony a7iii (4000 and 6400), so if you have any ideas on how to keep the facial detail and get rid of the noise, I'm all ears!!

    Thanks!


    Ah, right. That was a long time ago - I had forgotten!

    I think the NR Advanced tool's NR part morphed into the Detail slider in the NR tool and the Grain part, sometimes useful for disguising noise effects by making things look like film grain (probably only works for people who remember film!), moved to a Film Grain tool.

    I don't believe the order of adjustment matters to C1 - my understanding is that other than the most basic settings that enable the data to be turned it an image we can visualise the order of processing is determined by the processing engine.

    HOWEVER, to use the human operator the order may be more significant as we attempt various adjustments using a number of tools and seeing effects change as we use them. It can be quite easy to head off through a chain of tools making adjustments that are not necessarily adding positively to the overall result and take one around in small circles.

    As for your portraits challenge - so many possible variables it's not easy to say. Much depends on what output you are aiming for and the basic source of the problem type. Portraits, back in the day, were often "soft focus" in order to make the subject as attractive as possible (and probably hide the results from some of the less expensive lenses).

    These days we expect so much more and the potential level of detail at all levels can be overpowering in some situations.

    Are you working with RAW files or jpgs for these shots?

    Is there a sample image that you could share via a file sharing site so that people could try some of their favoured approaches and offer guidance?

    I would be willing to do that albeit I'm not a Sony user nor a regular portrait taker. Someone who is may be along soon and offer the benefit of their experiences to help get to the best advice more directly but otherwise I think a sample file would be the most effective option.

    Maybe a camera review site downloadable sample file with similar noise would also do for your purposes. If you know of one just post a link and anyone interested can download it and play with it in advance of offering suggestions.

    HTH.

    Grant
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636838676420114345" wrote:
    One other little thing I noticed is that once I made adjustments in C1 and go to photoshop for a mini liquify, the colour is not the same once the file opens in PS. Why is this happening?

    The same thing happens with a B&W file, it's more mutted and dull in PS than in C1...

    Thanks again


    You will typically be using a Process Recipe (I would expect) to create the ouput file and maybe proofing it as you go.

    So if you are Exporting or Processing the the edited file to an output file to be used by Photoshop there is potential that you are using different colour spaces for viewing in C1 and PS. Or something else with a similar effect.

    There are also options for how to deal with sharpening - using none is often popular if a file is to go to PS where the sharpening is to be applied after further edits.

    There is also a question that needs to be asked about whether your 'going to photoshop' is using Open with or Edit with rather than just creating an export/output file and then opening that in PS entirely independently of C1.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • NNN636838676420114345
    Hi Grant and thank you so much for your help on a weekend!!

    So the issue with C1/PS differing was indeed the color profile. Once I changed it to sRGB, I could "edit with PS" and the image opened in PS looked exactly like the C1 image.. Thanks!

    So the noise, unfortunately, I had to bump my ISO up to 6400 and 4000 so the images are not crisp and clear like I like them.
    Here are a few sony raw files (in Dropbox) that have not been touched (and as such are mega-embarrassing), but I would love to figure out if I can save them....

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/184wvhlu168h1wy/AADaz1G1Ruc0sKsZU2LUU47fa?dl=0

    Once again thank you so much for your help:)
    Nicole
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  • SFA
    Hi Nicole,

    Well it's a wet and somewhat chilly day here so what better to do than mess around with interesting matters on the Capture One Users forum?

    I have had a look at your images and my initial impression is that they are, by and large, remarkably noise free for the ISO setting compared to my cameras which are somewhat older and maybe lack the same level of sensor refinement.

    However the high ISO 'fuzziness' is slightly apparent at 4000 and more apparent at 6400 although for the subject matter by no means beyond the possibility of making a nice print.

    Some areas of the images seem to be slightly more likely to disappoint you than others. In the ISO 4000 shots for example I'm thinking maybe the children's hair since if is dark, they are right at the edge of the sharper parts of the depth of field or perhaps a little beyond it and there is the high ISO "softness" factor.

    The 6400 shot is more of the same but the large group and the larger aperture combined with the the individuals being further away and so details becoming smaller all adds to the additional perception of 'softness'. But out and out noise seems very well controlled. I would also say that it's probably OK for a fairly large wall hung print so long as it was not approached by someone with a strong magnifying glass and impossible expectations.

    So I'm wondering what particular aspects and details of the images you would most like to find improvements for as part of the preparation for the sitters. We might be heading more into dark arts here to get the effect you had in mind.

    Skin pore sharp for everyone is likely to need far more expertise than I can bring to the party but something a little softer would be closer to my expectation for what the subjects would favour.

    What can you tell me?


    Grant
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  • NNN636838676420114345
    Hi Grant, thank you for your opinion. I guess I'm used to having very clear photos - ones where the eyes look clear and sharp and skin nice & smooth.. I was toying with the idea of just showing B&W versions and maybe add a little film grain? I've been playing alot with C1 and I'll post what I can get and ask for advice again...Sometimes, I think it's a case of working alone and when something is different from my usual work (newborns) I do feel less confident. So, it's a relief to hear you say that they are not beyond the possibility of making a nice print. I doubt they will blow them up to a huge size and I will definitely be advising smaller clusters of frames instead of one big one!!! I'll let you know when I upload my attempt with modifications.... Once again, it's so nice to chat with someone about this!!!
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636838676420114345" wrote:
    Hi Grant, thank you for your opinion. I guess I'm used to having very clear photos - ones where the eyes look clear and sharp and skin nice & smooth.. I was toying with the idea of just showing B&W versions and maybe add a little film grain? I've been playing alot with C1 and I'll post what I can get and ask for advice again...Sometimes, I think it's a case of working alone and when something is different from my usual work (newborns) I do feel less confident. So, it's a relief to hear you say that they are not beyond the possibility of making a nice print. I doubt they will blow them up to a huge size and I will definitely be advising smaller clusters of frames instead of one big one!!! I'll let you know when I upload my attempt with modifications.... Once again, it's so nice to chat with someone about this!!!


    Hi Nicole,

    B&W might work rather well I think.

    However I think there is quite a bit that can be achieved with what you have in colour without too much effort. The background is a little trickier than it might be if there were not so many white shirts around!

    You know back in the day when B&W was the norm because colour was just so difficult in terms of temperature control for the chemicals in the fume room, the soft image was often preferred. Especially by ladies but men too if they were not keen on a harsh facial rendition.

    It was not uncommon, so I heard, for a photographer using a large frame camera and a super sharp lens in a studio setting with full lights to borrow a stocking to stretch over the lens in order to attempt (often successfully), a softer image with a little glow to it straight out of the camera.

    I remember amongst the vast numbers of add on filters one could buy back in film camera days one could also get soft focus filters that allowed for a sharp focus but with artfully softened features for portrait and the then style of glamour or boudoir output.

    How things change. Now one just does things digitally.

    I ran up a quick edit on the 6400 that seems to work quite nicely applied to one of the 4000s. I have not yet tried the other one but it should be much the same. Whether it is what you are looking for I don't know but I think if helps to demonstrate potential.

    I think I turned up your web site within seconds (unless there are 2 of you in the same business with the same web site name! How about I prep something for sharing and send you the link via a contact message? Would that work? Maybe better than using public links?


    Grant
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  • NNN636838676420114345
    How interesting all the background on the film days....I remember taking a class on film ages ago and although I loved the look, I just couldn't handle all the chemicals and the cramped darkroom I used in Paris...I'm a little claustrophobic!!

    I would love to see what you come up with! That would be simply amazing!
    Is there a way that you can send me the edit in addition to how you got there in C1? Perhaps if you send me a session so I can see your settings? Is that even possible? My email is nicole[at]moments.ie or I'm happy to share the dropbox directory with you if you send me your email? Thanks!!!
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN636838676420114345" wrote:
    How interesting all the background on the film days....I remember taking a class on film ages ago and although I loved the look, I just couldn't handle all the chemicals and the cramped darkroom I used in Paris...I'm a little claustrophobic!!

    I would love to see what you come up with! That would be simply amazing!
    Is there a way that you can send me the edit in addition to how you got there in C1? Perhaps if you send me a session so I can see your settings? Is that even possible? My email is nicole[at]moments.ie or I'm happy to share the dropbox directory with you if you send me your email? Thanks!!!


    Hi Nicole,

    I'll send something as soon as I've had another chance to check things on screen in daylight.

    The simplest thing should be to just send you the edit files (very small) and you can connect them with the originals but in a separate (disposable) folder that will not interfere with your shoot session. Should be quite quick and easy to do that.

    More in a few hours from now.


    Grant
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