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UI focus and MIDI controllers.

Avery Wong
I have my Capture One setup to use a Midi Fighter Twister to do all my editing quickly, basically I linked keyboard shortcuts to each of the twist knobs and it works pretty well. I am able to quickly edit entire galleries without touching the mouse for the most part.

The issue I've been having comes when I need to use the mouse to adjust something that isn't mapped to my Midi device, for instance, if I were to adjust the white balance mode to "Shot" or manually move the color balance wheels around with the mouse. What happens is the application changes focus to that interface, which is useful if you want to use your keyboard controls to nudge the adjustment up and down using the arrow keys, but none of the other keyboard commands work, and there isn't a keyboard command to get out of it (like hitting escape or something) and put the focus back on the image. I have to pick up my mouse and click on the image to use keyboard commands again (and thus my midi device). There is also no indication that you have that UI adjustment selected, like if you click on White Balance Mode and choose an option, there is nothing that indicates that you are still controlling the White Balance Mode adjustment with the keyboard, typically other applications highlight the box, etc.

Has anyone found a work around for this? I would like to bind a key that will pull the focus back to the image itself without having to click on it with the mouse.
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Comments

54 comments

Date Votes
  • Alain Decamps
    Nice info.

    Is 16 knobs not too much to get "muscle memory"?
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  • Doug Peterson
    This is the limit of "hacked" compatibility (i.e. programming a knob to type a keystroke over and over).

    I'd recommend looking into the Tangent solution instead. It is natively tied into C1 by API. https://digitaltransitions.com/capture- ... -features/
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  • Alain Decamps
    Hi

    have you tried the tab key? For me it works on the keyboard.


    Alain
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="Digital Transitions, Doug" wrote:
    This is the limit of "hacked" compatibility (i.e. programming a knob to type a keystroke over and over).

    I'd recommend looking into the Tangent solution instead. It is natively tied into C1 by API. https://digitaltransitions.com/capture- ... -features/

    Doug

    It's unfortunately that CO doesn't support midi, there are ton's of USB midi daw controllers from 50 euro to 1500 euro (and probably more). The bigger the eco system the better.

    For tangent I see the ripple as very nice and with a "low" price, but I don't do much colour grading. An element kb (12 knobs) is 4 times more expensive than the "Midi Fighter Twister" and even more than "cheap" midi controllers. Not everybody can justify that price difference for a few knobs.


    Alain
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  • Avery Wong
    [quote="Alain" wrote:
    Nice info.

    Is 16 knobs not too much to get "muscle memory"?


    Nah, I even have the knobs do something different when pressed in and rotated, like I have temperature +/- on up and rotate, and tint +/- on down and rotate on the single knob, so it's really 32 knobs. 😊

    I do forget what a couple of them do sometimes though.
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  • Avery Wong
    [quote="Alain" wrote:
    Hi

    have you tried the tab key? For me it works on the keyboard.


    Alain


    Tab works! Awesome, thank you so much!
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  • Avery Wong
    [quote="Digital Transitions, Doug" wrote:
    This is the limit of "hacked" compatibility (i.e. programming a knob to type a keystroke over and over).

    I'd recommend looking into the Tangent solution instead. It is natively tied into C1 by API. https://digitaltransitions.com/capture- ... -features/


    Tangents are ridiculously expensive and the "affordable" option doesn't have the functionality I want. The midi fighter twister is $200 bucks and does everything I need. I don't understand why C1 doesn't implement even rudimentary midi functionality, if they can put time into tangent, something universal like midi should not be that tough. It's one of the few things that I miss from switching over from Lightroom (aside from the lack of dehaze and the ability to overwrite files).
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="NN636082693618759645UL" wrote:
    [quote="Alain" wrote:
    Nice info.

    Is 16 knobs not too much to get "muscle memory"?


    Nah, I even have the knobs do something different when pressed in and rotated, like I have temperature +/- on up and rotate, and tint +/- on down and rotate on the single knob, so it's really 32 knobs. 😊

    I do forget what a couple of them do sometimes though.


    And if I read the specs correctly it has for banks. So in total 4x32 possibilities.
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  • WPNL
    Could you provide some info on how you made this work?
    I've got a midi controller lying around somewhere, cant wait to put it to action!

    Thanks a lot in advance! 😊

    edit:
    Okay, got the Korg Nano Kontrol out, hooked it up with BOME Midi translator, assigned some shortcuts, we're off!!! 😊
    How did you get the rotating knobs to work, at this moment I'm pressing buttons to add or subtract values, rotating is faster I guess. I found a set of rules for Bome but the changing values where not updating the image realtime...
    But, this looks promising! 😊
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  • Jean1
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Could you provide some info on how you made this work?

    I would be grateful for some information too !
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Could you provide some info on how you made this work?
    I've got a midi controller lying around somewhere, cant wait to put it to action!

    Thanks a lot in advance! 😊

    edit:
    Okay, got the Korg Nano Kontrol out, hooked it up with BOME Midi translator, assigned some shortcuts, we're off!!! 😊
    How did you get the rotating knobs to work, at this moment I'm pressing buttons to add or subtract values, rotating is faster I guess. I found a set of rules for Bome but the changing values where not updating the image realtime...
    But, this looks promising! 😊

    Hi

    It's important that you can give relative + and - keystrokes to CO. There are two ways that knobs make mide signals :

    a) A value from 0-127 --> This needs translation to relative - and + signals to work with keystrokes.
    (sometimes called a knob or pot value in documentation)
    b) A rotary encoder with relative values --> Here is a direct mapping possible.


    If I did read the korg nano 2 controller manual correctly it gives a)


    Alain
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  • WPNL
    Hi Alain,
    Thanks for the pointers!

    I think your right about the rotary knobs. They've got a start and end postition, like faders.
    That should mean they're 0 - 127.

    I'm lucky the NanoKontrol2 has over 30 switches so for now I've assigned some with keystrokes.
    For example: MIDI IN [nanoKONTROL2 1 SLIDER/KNOB]: B0 20 00 --> alt(num +) alt(num +) alt(num +)
    Which means one press = EV +0.3. (EV +0.1 takes too many actions)

    Working with relative numbers, can you add values to the rotating direction?
    Clockwise = alt(num +)
    Counterclockwise = alt(num -)

    I've installed "Bome MIDI Translator Pro Trial", because "Classic" stopped recognizing my controller.
    If you like programming, this has many more options, I'm lost already hahaha...

    Have a nice day 😊
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  • Alain Decamps
    Hi

    Yesterday I found the Arturia beatstep for 89 euro's and it was delivered today. (First I was thinking a DIY project.)

    I has 17 rotary encoders (1 bigger and 16 small ones) and 16 drum pads (makes nice buttons).
    While playing with it I was able to define the knobs to specific relative midi commands, and as test to pads also.

    Inside Bome's I was able to translate them to key presses. (Still have to add those while turning very fast.)

    Then I mapped those inside CO 10 and it seems to work nicely.

    2 tips :

    - Make a systematic mapping to midi commands and then to keypresses and do the customisation inside CO1.
    - Try a few first and see what you want. For example I mapped the RGB levels highlights to the big knob. I still have to reverse them. Going to a lower value give you a brighter image 😉
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  • Avery Wong
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Could you provide some info on how you made this work?
    I've got a midi controller lying around somewhere, cant wait to put it to action!

    Thanks a lot in advance! 😊

    edit:
    Okay, got the Korg Nano Kontrol out, hooked it up with BOME Midi translator, assigned some shortcuts, we're off!!! 😊
    How did you get the rotating knobs to work, at this moment I'm pressing buttons to add or subtract values, rotating is faster I guess. I found a set of rules for Bome but the changing values where not updating the image realtime...
    But, this looks promising! 😊


    Hi, sounds like you have it right. One of the reasons I got the midi fighter is because it is all knobs. I basically assigned keyboard functions to each of the adjustments in Capture One then in BOME Midi Translator Classic I mapped the +/- key commands to each of the knob movements. Lightroom has a better implementation of this if you use a plugin such as Midi 2 Lightroom. It allows values to be sent two way, from Midi controller to app and from app to midi controller so you can have lights and switches update with the values from the app, also on screen display of the values being changed. This I really wish Capture One had.

    If you are using a KORG or something with sliders, I'm not sure how you would be able to do this properly in Capture One though, since there isn't a two way transfer of info, since knobs don't care about it's starting position, it works well.
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  • Avery Wong
    On another note...does anyone know why my user name is a string of numbers now?
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  • WPNL
    On another note...does anyone know why my user name is a string of numbers now?
    Are you Alain? that's strange!

    Thanks for your helpful info 😊
    I'm negotiating for a second hand Beatstep, this seems like the perfect device.
    The rotary's for = / - and the buttons for colors or maybe even navigation.
    (Almost bought a BCR2000 but that's too latge in my opinion)

    Can't wait to start with this!

    Have a nice day 😊
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  • Avery Wong
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    On another note...does anyone know why my user name is a string of numbers now?
    Are you Alain? that's strange!

    Thanks for your helpful info 😊
    I'm negotiating for a second hand Beatstep, this seems like the perfect device.
    The rotary's for = / - and the buttons for colors or maybe even navigation.
    (Almost bought a BCR2000 but that's too latge in my opinion)

    Can't wait to start with this!

    Have a nice day 😊


    I'm AveryTingWong the original poster. BCR2000 wouldn't work with Capture One since Capture One doesn't send data to the device like Lightroom does. Midi Fighter Twister has been working pretty well though.
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  • Avery Wong
    AveryTingWong here again (OP),

    Here is a link to my Bome Midi Translator Classic file that I put together, just bind the keys in Capture One to the corresponding ones in Bome, it should work with Midi Fighter Twister as is, but if you are using some other midi device you'll have to re-calibrate the functions in Bome.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_yfe ... HhjTzU0a00
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  • WPNL
    Thanks a lot for the file, this will surely help me to get there faster.
    I've ordered the Beatstep (16 rotary + 16 pads), hopefully it's here before Christmas 😉

    Have a nice day!
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  • Alain Decamps
    Hi

    I've just upload my current configuration files for the beatstep and Bome's translator. I've just been playing a few hours with it. Not a single guaranty that this will be useful 😉 There need to be made keyboard shortcuts in CO itself.

    https://www.ann-alain.eu/CO/beatstep_bome.zip


    Alain
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  • WPNL
    Thanks! (is this file based on C1's default shortcuts or do you have a map maybe?)
    I'm waiting for my Beatstep to arrive, should be here this weekend 😊
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="Alain" wrote:
    Hi

    I've just upload my current configuration files for the beatstep and Bome's translator. I've just been playing a few hours with it. Not a single guaranty that this will be useful 😉 There need to be made keyboard shortcuts in CO itself.

    https://www.ann-alain.eu/CO/beatstep_bome.zip


    Alain


    I added a test set of keyboard shortcuts for CO.
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  • WPNL
    Thanks! 😊
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  • Novulon
    Hey there!

    I am thinking about using a MIDI Fighter Twister with Bome in order to speed up my RAW processing. I think it would mostly benefit color grading via the C1 Color Editor. Problem is, the Editor seems to be one of the few panels, for which C1 doesn't provide Keyboard Shortcuts. Am i missing something?

    Have a nice day!
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  • SFA
    Well I think I am missing something here.

    Compared to. for example, buying a Tangent Wave Ripple, plugging it in and starting to work with it using a dedicated interface .... where it the benefit of buying a MIDI controller and spending several hours - perhaps days - maybe weeks? - getting it to work in some way?

    Will the MIDI interface end up as a faster-to-use solution than the Tangent gear?

    Any excuse that includes words and phrases like "boys toys", "it's just fun to do" or "I have plenty of time to fill anyway" I will fully understand and applaud (unless accompanied by complaints about "not enough shortcuts" or "the available shortcuts do not work as my fudge needs them to".)

    Claiming to be a Pro wanting to save time (and money) by speeding up your work flow while saving a few bucks ... well that's not going to sound very credible it you will need hours to get things set up and operational - even if it proves to be as time saving in use as a dedicated solution.

    Unless people can suggest a wholly convincing alternative line of logic.


    Who can convince me?


    Grant


    Disclaimer: I have no ties to Phase or Tangent or any associated business and no I don't think the dedicated kit is so inexpensive that everyone should rush out an buy it. Far from it. But nor do I really see the benefit in a hack it yourself solution. Please enlighten me.
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  • WPNL
    Grant, you might be surprised!

    I'm working on a how-to and it really isn't that hard 😊

    ps: I'd advise the Arturia Beatstep, 16 rotary (for e.g exposure) and 16 pads (for e.g. '1 to 5 star')

    give me a few days . . .

    https://phodograf.com/controller-1/
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  • Novulon
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Well I think I am missing something here.

    Compared to. for example, buying a Tangent Wave Ripple, plugging it in and starting to work with it using a dedicated interface .... where it the benefit of buying a MIDI controller and spending several hours - perhaps days - maybe weeks? - getting it to work in some way?

    Will the MIDI interface end up as a faster-to-use solution than the Tangent gear?

    Any excuse that includes words and phrases like "boys toys", "it's just fun to do" or "I have plenty of time to fill anyway" I will fully understand and applaud (unless accompanied by complaints about "not enough shortcuts" or "the available shortcuts do not work as my fudge needs them to".)

    Claiming to be a Pro wanting to save time (and money) by speeding up your work flow while saving a few bucks ... well that's not going to sound very credible it you will need hours to get things set up and operational - even if it proves to be as time saving in use as a dedicated solution.

    Unless people can suggest a wholly convincing alternative line of logic.


    Who can convince me?


    Grant


    Disclaimer: I have no ties to Phase or Tangent or any associated business and no I don't think the dedicated kit is so inexpensive that everyone should rush out an buy it. Far from it. But nor do I really see the benefit in a hack it yourself solution. Please enlighten me.


    Hey Grant!

    Sorry that this topic frustrates you so much. To clarify: I did not claim to be a Pro, I don't know where you got that from. Photography is my free time passion. So why not optimize my workflow, so I can get more images done in my future spare time. I am an Interface-Designer and Webdeveolper by trade and additionally like tinkering with electronics to the point, where i successfully built camera drones and a 3D printer. Setting up a MIDI Controller to work with my favorite RAW-Converter will be a piece of cake, especially since people have already done it and shared their knowledge online.

    Also from a programmer's standpoint, I just asked myself why PhaseOne didn't complete their wonderfully extensive shortcut framework in C1. They will have their reasons and I'm not here to criticize that or to demand features. I just merely asked if people, who went with the same approach, just live with the limitations or perhaps found a workaround.

    If it really interests you, i'll get back to you, when i found my preferred solution regarding these "Hacks" and report how much time i took me to setup and how much time it saves me editing.

    Cheers
    Tim

    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Grant, you might be surprised!

    I'm working on a how-to and it really isn't that hard 😊

    ps: I'd advise the Arturia Beatstep, 16 rotary (for e.g exposure) and 16 pads (for e.g. '1 to 5 star')

    give me a few days . . .

    https://phodograf.com/controller-1/


    Thanks for the controller recommendation, i will look into it. Also nice work on writing a tutorial, I'm excited to watch your progress.
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  • John Doe
    Same here: the tutorial is an excellent idea, can't wait to see it completed. Might ask for one of those Arturia controller as a birthday present. 😊

    EDIT: what about the Novation Launch Control? https://www.thomann.de/fr/novation_launch_control.htm
    Anyone tried it with CO?
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  • SFA
    Hi Tim,

    Well, I did not intend to imply that everyone is a Pro and my comments were intended to be somewhat generic and addressed to all posting here.

    I think your response falls into the "boys toys" category and that's absolutely fine by me.

    However, even then one has to consider whether the time involved justifies the returns. Half the problem being that you won't really know until you are well beyond the point of making an alternative decision viable. So you live and die, in your own mind and those of the post readers, by your early decisions.

    Yes it does interest me why people choose the paths that they choose.

    Finding something to be interesting and engaging is fine. Making that effort a focus for productivity is also fine ... but possibly questionable in the medium to long term. Unless you write off the time you spend (unless you are very honest with yourself you will always underestimate how much time things absorb) to "having fun" the initial and continuing "time costs" of setting up and running something yourself will likely far outweigh the raw costs of buying in a solution that is, in effect, "crowd funded". (Note - I don't claim that this scales endlessly. Once you get to monolithic proportions (Microsoft, Apple, et al) things can get very messy again.)

    Personally - I like to have an understanding of roughly how things work and I really feel uncomfortable when I don't have that understanding - so count me in the "boys toys" section with a side play of technology. But in the end I just want the tool to work and understand how it does. I have no objective to engineer it or re-engineer it. At least not in this case. Show me something that will do what I want at a reasonably affordable premium and I will see it as good value.

    There are times on various photo related forums when I wonder whether the posters and readers are really interested in the image generation aspects of the "hobby", "passion" or "profession" or something completely different that is useful to occupy their time.

    The background context seems to me to be important to understanding a correspondent's real need and purpose.


    Grant
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  • WPNL
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    what about the Novation Launch Control? https://www.thomann.de/fr/novation_launch_control.htm
    Anyone tried it with CO?


    16 rotary pots with 300 degree motion

    You're looking for 360 degree infinite rotary pots.

    The Novation's are 0 - 127, it will work if you manage to map these to C1's values but that's quite difficult and I fear the values are 'kept' when you switch image...
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