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UI focus and MIDI controllers.

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54 comments

  • WPNL
    Grant, I wonder...
    Does Tangent work exactly like you (for instance) would want or does it need setting up also, and how flexible will this be?
    I don't know, but I think it's something that will put some weight into the equation?

    😊
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  • John Doe
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    [quote="John Doe" wrote:
    what about the Novation Launch Control? https://www.thomann.de/fr/novation_launch_control.htm
    Anyone tried it with CO?


    16 rotary pots with 300 degree motion

    You're looking for 360 degree infinite rotary pots.

    The Novation's are 0 - 127, it will work if you manage to map these to C1's values but that's quite difficult and I fear the values are 'kept' when you switch image...

    Good point, thanks!
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  • SFA
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Grant, I wonder...
    Does Tangent work exactly like you (for instance) would want or does it need setting up also, and how flexible will this be?
    I don't know, but I think it's something that will put some weight into the equation?

    😊


    I take the point and it is valid ... but at least Tangent comes with a starter definition worked out by Phase (and probably has been quite influential for UI design in recent times - the Colour Balance tool for example.

    I would doubt that the core settings are something that everyone would wish to throw away in totality and even if one wanted to set something different to standard eventually, things should still be usable "out of the box" as a starting point.

    Doing your own "thing" with a midi device is still no guarantee that you will get it how you really want it first time - but you would still have to put the effort in to define it. (Or if not you then someone else ....).

    Even so the potential benefit (cost savings?) are not clear to me.


    Grant
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  • John Doe
    Well for me (and I guess a lot of people), the equation is quite simple : I can afford an Arturia BeatStep; I cannot afford a Tangent device.
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  • WPNL
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    Even so the potnetial benefit (cost savings?) are not clear to me.

    Grant


    Well... I spent €149,-, some time configuring and one A3 print for the overlay of the controller.
    That leaves quite some room for 'experimenting' for me.
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Well I think I am missing something here.

    Compared to. for example, buying a Tangent Wave Ripple, plugging it in and starting to work with it using a dedicated interface .... where it the benefit of buying a MIDI controller and spending several hours - perhaps days - maybe weeks? - getting it to work in some way?

    Will the MIDI interface end up as a faster-to-use solution than the Tangent gear?

    Any excuse that includes words and phrases like "boys toys", "it's just fun to do" or "I have plenty of time to fill anyway" I will fully understand and applaud (unless accompanied by complaints about "not enough shortcuts" or "the available shortcuts do not work as my fudge needs them to".)

    Claiming to be a Pro wanting to save time (and money) by speeding up your work flow while saving a few bucks ... well that's not going to sound very credible it you will need hours to get things set up and operational - even if it proves to be as time saving in use as a dedicated solution.

    Unless people can suggest a wholly convincing alternative line of logic.


    Who can convince me?


    Grant


    Disclaimer: I have no ties to Phase or Tangent or any associated business and no I don't think the dedicated kit is so inexpensive that everyone should rush out an buy it. Far from it. But nor do I really see the benefit in a hack it yourself solution. Please enlighten me.

    Grant

    A Tangent element Kb + element Bt is about 1400 euro's VAT incl., the beatstep + Bome's Midi Translator Classic is about 120 euro's VAT incl.. For me those are completely different markets.

    After this original post and some other I had the gist quite fast, the most time was spend finding the Arturio Beatstep. After it arrived I had it up and running in about 1 hour with the most wanted knobs and buttons. Now I add a knob or button if I think it would speed me more up.
    Is it perfect : no, but for the price difference I can live with it 😉 (But is the Tangent perfect?)

    I do quite some sport photography and I can work quite a bit faster now.

    Alain
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  • SFA
    Alain,

    I was thinking more of the Ripple and specifically related to the Colour Grading requirement a few posts above.

    That is £299 in the UK (including tax iirc) with a dedicated program to run it built into and supported by Phase in C1.

    As price differentials go that's no so much over all compared to your MIDI approach. And it pretty much seems to mirror the C1 Colour Balance tool.


    Grant.
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  • WPNL
    Hi Grant,
    I thing your comparison is not the right one, the Tangent Element Kb panel Knob comes closer to the controller we are working with. It might not suit your working methods but of course I only 'really care' about mine 😊
    Please let me/us know how your experiences are when you put it into use?
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  • Novulon
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Alain,

    I was thinking more of the Ripple and specifically related to the Colour Grading requirement a few posts above.

    That is £299 in the UK (including tax iirc) with a dedicated program to run it built into and supported by Phase in C1.

    As price differentials go that's no so much over all compared to your MIDI approach. And it pretty much seems to mirror the C1 Colour Balance tool.


    Grant.


    Seems we misunderstood each other a few times. 😄
    You are right, the Ripple isn't too far off cost wise and if it can control the Color Editor Panel (the basic tab), I would consider it in addition to a MIDI Controller. That would be the most cost-efficient solution for me, to control the whole Software via dedicated Hardware. Sorry I didn't clarify that I was looking into a complete solution, not just for the grading part.

    But I only saw the Ripple in action with the Color Balance Panel (Webinar on Youtube), which has a load of shortcut options and is easily controllable by the MIDI Solution discussed in this thread. I am not able to find information on it's compatibility towards the color editor panel, which is a crucial part in my workflow. To test it out, I tried to install the Tangent Element-Vs App, which simulates their controllers on iOS and Android devices. Sadly the Play Store on my Android 6 and 7 devices marks it as incompatible. I think I will write PhaseOne Support and ask if my intended use for the Ripple is possible at all.

    Tim
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  • SFA
    [quote="Novulon" wrote:
    To test it out, I tried to install the Tangent Element-Vs App, which simulates their controllers on iOS and Android devices. Sadly the Play Store on my Android 6 and 7 devices marks it as incompatible. I think I will write PhaseOne Support and ask if my intended use for the Ripple is possible at all.

    Tim


    The Element-Vs app requires a minimum screen size - 8 inches I think from memory. Or it might be 7.

    Could that be a factor in the Play Store incompatibility?

    Grant
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  • Novulon
    [quote="SFA" wrote:


    The Element-Vs app requires a minimum screen size - 8 inches I think from memory. Or it might be 7.

    Could that be a factor in the Play Store incompatibility?

    Grant


    Highly possible 😄! Will borrow a tablet tomorrow and try again. Thanks Grant!
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    Alain,

    I was thinking more of the Ripple and specifically related to the Colour Grading requirement a few posts above.

    That is £299 in the UK (including tax iirc) with a dedicated program to run it built into and supported by Phase in C1.

    As price differentials go that's no so much over all compared to your MIDI approach. And it pretty much seems to mirror the C1 Colour Balance tool.


    Grant.

    Grant

    I already stated in this thread that the ripple seems a good choice for colour grading and for a "fair" price. It lacks functionality with extra buttons and knobs.

    To be clear: I'm certain that the Tangent element Kb and Bt are high quality products, but the price also has a high premium. For example Tangent states that the knobs on element are optical rotary encoders and those are a lot more expensive that mechanical rotary encoders. End user component price for the optical is 20-50 euro and only 1- 4 euros for the mechanical (rough price for 1 piece). I doubt that I would be restricted by the lesser "smoothness" from the mechanical encoders.

    I would like that C1 has a possibility to add "midi" controllers or as an alternative add's some extra keyboard shortcut possibilities so that all users can use a hardware product that suits there demands and budget. Extra keyboard shortcut possibilities would not harm other users if there are no default key combinations assigned to, probably the least amount of work.

    Alain
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  • NN635674185112256291UL
    Hi everyone. I'm a french user of C1 as digital operator.
    I would like to use a midi fighter twister on set to fast edit incoming picture "à la volé". I experiment a bit with a cheap midi controller and bome midi translator and, thanks to you, i manage to understand this things better and setup the controller with C1. But there is one things i dont know how to do.

    Basicaly i would like to reset a cursor with a button. On the fighter for exemple, if a knob is dedicated to the contrast cursor, i would like to press it to reset the cursor to zero.
    Do you think it is possible and how ? Merci !
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  • WPNL
    That's why I chose / would advise a controller with pots and pads.
    I cannot give an by head but you should be able to link a specific value of a pot to a keystroke, let's say CC01 65 = mouse: 0:0?

    Edit: I misunderstood, I haven't found the value for "reset" to zero, if there's no keyboard shortcut you cannot map it.
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  • grasjeroen
    So I have been playing around a bit (using my Wacom pen tablet that has a touch ring), and having keyboard shortcuts mapped to hardware is really nice, and I am inclined to pursue the MIDI route.

    One disadvantage that I've found is that when changing values, each of the changes is getting recorded as something you can undo. So turning a knob will generate a lot of these events. So when you want to go back to the point before you've turned the knob, it is not so easy to identify that state. Anyone else has faced this, and found a solution for it?
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  • WPNL
    You can of course assign multiple commands to one action. This is less accurate but it might suit your needs. For example:
    CCxx value + 1 = (ctrl +) (ctrl +) (ctrl +)

    Or...you can create a variant of your photo at some point?
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  • grasjeroen
    Still, the 'undo buffer' holds three changes, so I will have to do the counting, which is not what I want (and perhaps not what I can, when turning a knob). So although I will speed up the changes, returning to the previous state is not easy. Creating a variant is a nice idea, but to create a variant every time I turn a knob ...
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  • WPNL
    Unfortunately there is no such thing as history in C1, so it's like it is...
    You'd have the same problem if you repeated the keystroke one by one but you're spared of that at least, I can't think of an alternative to make this easier 😊
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  • [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Unfortunately there is no such thing as history in C1, so it's like it is...
    You'd have the same problem if you repeated the keystroke one by one but you're spared of that at least, I can't think of an alternative to make this easier 😊


    On your website about midi config and bome app there is no working link to .zip file with configs, can you fix that or send me files for personal use by @ ? malita <at> gmail
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  • WPNL
    [quote="NNN634269312655269747" wrote:
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Unfortunately there is no such thing as history in C1, so it's like it is...
    You'd have the same problem if you repeated the keystroke one by one but you're spared of that at least, I can't think of an alternative to make this easier 😊


    On your website about midi config and bome app there is no working link to .zip file with configs, can you fix that or send me files for personal use by @ ? malita <at> gmail


    I'll fix it tonight! thanks for bringing it to my attention 😊

    edit: fixed!
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  • Jon Glaser
    Do the sliders on a midi work also?

    I use palette gear they do not work with C1..And I might sell and switch..

    thanks

    Jon
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="NNN636243284260035705" wrote:
    Do the sliders on a midi work also?

    I use palette gear they do not work with C1..And I might sell and switch..

    thanks

    Jon


    The controller has to have endless rotary encoders. I have the arturia beatstep and the sliders do work (for example changing exposure.)

    If I'm correct palette gear has NO endless knobs, but 0-X knobs.
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  • Jon Glaser
    [quote="Alain" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636243284260035705" wrote:
    Do the sliders on a midi work also?

    I use palette gear they do not work with C1..And I might sell and switch..

    thanks

    Jon


    The controller has to have endless rotary encoders. I have the arturia beatstep and the sliders do work (for example changing exposure.)

    If I'm correct palette gear has NO endless knobs, but 0-X knobs.


    The control knobs are endless on the palette gear,so those work, but sliders do not,,I might sell my palette gear and get midi...........Cause I am lacking in enough sliders and control knobs,so I have to set up program(called palette switching)for each,,,ie, one for exposure, one for wb, one for HDR, one for local adj, 🤓
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  • Alain Decamps
    [quote="jglaser757" wrote:
    [quote="Alain" wrote:
    [quote="NNN636243284260035705" wrote:
    Do the sliders on a midi work also?

    I use palette gear they do not work with C1..And I might sell and switch..

    thanks

    Jon


    The controller has to have endless rotary encoders. I have the arturia beatstep and the sliders do work (for example changing exposure.)

    If I'm correct palette gear has NO endless knobs, but 0-X knobs.


    The control knobs are endless on the palette gear,so those work, but sliders do not,,I might sell my palette gear and get midi...........Cause I am lacking in enough sliders and control knobs,so I have to set up program(called palette switching)for each,,,ie, one for exposure, one for wb, one for HDR, one for local adj, 🤓


    Ok, I was thinking the sliders inside the GUI of C1. The Arturia beatstep has 17 knobs and can use several seperate banks. After several months I still don't use all knobs.
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