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C1 without catalogs or sessions

Jim Hughes
I've heard this is possible, by creating a "dummy session", but I can't find a simple explanation.

I'm not currently a user, but want to get away from LR, and the choice is down to either C1, or the forthcoming On1 Photo Raw. I don't want to have anything to do with catalogs or importing, ever again, and O1PR promises simple browsing and sidecar files. But if I could use C1 this way then I think it's my choice.
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23 comments

Date Votes
  • HansB
    You can use Capture One with a session.

    In this session you can browse your harddisk folders with the 'library' tool. No need to import anything.

    All adjustments, masks, LCCs, thumbs and previews are stored in sidecar files, in a subfolder within your image folder.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    I've heard this is possible, by creating a "dummy session"

    Don't need to - just use the "default" session, and you get exactly the result (in terms of the user experience) that you're looking for.
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  • SFA
    The default "session" has already been mentioned.

    You may, however, discover that the session concept has some useful tools within it that are referred to in connection with "importing" but not in a way that you might understand it from a Lightroom experience.

    It's optional and you can use it is, sometimes, it suits you to do so.


    Grant
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  • grasjeroen
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    The default "session" has already been mentioned.

    You may, however, discover that the session concept has some useful tools within it that are referred to in connection with "importing" but not in a way that you might understand it from a Lightroom experience.

    It's optional and you can use it is, sometimes, it suits you to do so.


    Grant

    And how do I select the default session? I normally use catalogs, so my question is perhaps better phrased as: how do I switch to the default session?
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  • SFA
    [quote="grasjeroen" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    The default "session" has already been mentioned.

    You may, however, discover that the session concept has some useful tools within it that are referred to in connection with "importing" but not in a way that you might understand it from a Lightroom experience.

    It's optional and you can use it is, sometimes, it suits you to do so.


    Grant

    And how do I select the default session? I normally use catalogs, so my question is perhaps better phrased as: how do I switch to the default session?


    Form the Menu select "Open session". It will need a name. You can give it a name of your choosing or just leave it to name itself.

    C1 will set up a few session folders that you can use or ignore, your choice day by day. It's an adminstirative structure that groups things together for ease of administration and use. Or not if you do not want that.

    After that there are 3 ways you can use your session - all side by sied it you wish.

    1. You can import images taking advantage of some import features (batch applying Presets and Styles for example) and naming options, with or without making a copy of the source file within the session folder structure.

    2. You can use the Library tool to navigate to a folder on your system and start editing the images to be found there. Open more folders as you wish to edit the contents.

    3. As for 2. but make the folder a "Favourite" and it will be remebered by the session and appear in the Favourites list making it easier to get back to and available for searching - like a mini open catalog subset.

    You can use all 3 of these approaches on every session whoulf you decide, for example, to create a new sessoin for each year.

    The source folders might be connected to more than one session or to other editing applications - though best that they do not require the use of imported files.

    It's all very simple and flexible - you do the managing on your terms. That may suit some (me for example) and frighten others.

    There's nothing to stop people using catalogues as well. In fact many would probably think the workflow combination of session during (tethered) shooting and for post shoot assessment and processing would suit well. Once a session is deemed to be "comlpete" (at that point, still available for changes later) then it could be merged into a catalogue (or several if that suited one's needs) using the work done up to that point.

    For some that might be the best of both worlds - especially if working with a lot of images.

    There are a couple of webinar videos that offer more detail (iicr). It's well worth having a look foro them if you have not seen them already.

    HTH.


    Grant
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  • Jim Hughes
    Ok, that's helpful, thanks.

    My 2 cents worth is that there are many people thinking of leaving LR in part because the catalog/import thing is such a hassle; and C1 is at the top of their list. But on first entry to C1 we're lost in another forest of catalog/session/import/album. Rather than a step-by-step video showing me capabilities I'll never use, what I'd like is just an explanation of what a catalog, session, or album actually 'is' and 'does', then I can choose an approach. Like I said - 2 cents.

    What I think I now 'get' is that Open Session will create a session I don't actually need to use, following which I can do everything through 'Library" and never have to deal with sessions or catalogs. Hope that's true anyway.
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  • Keith Reeder
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    My 2 cents worth is that there are many people thinking of leaving LR in part because the catalog/import thing is such a hassle

    No their aren't - no more now than when Lr was first released. Those of us who use and appreciate Lr as well as Capture One, accept importing as part of the Lr workflow.

    "Hassle" it isn't - it's just a different way of doing things

    OK, you and some undefined number of others, don't like the Lr import process, but don't project your personal views as evidence of some across-the-board dissatisfaction. If it was self-evidently such a problem, Lr wouldn't continue to be the no. 1 Raw converter solution out there, would it?
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  • HansB
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    ...
    What I think I now 'get' is that Open Session will create a session I don't actually need to use, following which I can do everything through 'Library" and never have to deal with sessions or catalogs. Hope that's true anyway.

    Let's say it this way: CO needs a session or catalog to work with, and you are going to use a session.

    CO needs this session to create standards like output-, capture- and trash folders. The session will also remember your settings if you replace these folders with some of your own. It has a keyword list, and it remembers the folder you were working in.

    Every image adjustment you do will be stored in sidecar files. But there can be more than one sidecar file, depending on your adjustments.

    Importing or not makes no difference in adjustment capabilities.

    You can create a new session at any time. Browsing the image folders will show you the images with adjustments, ratings, tags and keywords.


    I'm working in sessions for my shootings. I'm browsing folders, like you plan to. And I never import anything in my sessions. The difference is that I use a session per shooting. Just because I can select a shooting session and it takes me directly to the right image folder. Sometimes I use a temporarily created session to browse across folders of my other sessions.

    At an later stage, I use referenced catalogs for old, finished work. But that's a different story.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Jim Hughes
    Thanks Hans, that adds a bit of clarity.

    As a former software developer, I always want the concepts, the model - not a 'tutorial'. I want to know what a session is, conceptually; I don't need a video showing me how to move my mouse and click on menu items 😊

    At this point I see that a session might be just a name for a point in the file system; all photos in or below that folder would be in the 'session'. There seems to be some information associated with the 'session', like a shooting date. But all adjustments are associated with individual photos via sidecars in the same folder. At least, I hope that's all true.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    Thanks Hans, that adds a bit of clarity.

    As a former software developer, I always want the concepts, the model - not a 'tutorial'. I want to know what a session is, conceptually; I don't need a video showing me how to move my mouse and click on menu items 😊

    At this point I see that a session might be just a name for a point in the file system; all photos in or below that folder would be in the 'session'. There seems to be some information associated with the 'session', like a shooting date. But all adjustments are associated with individual photos via sidecars in the same folder. At least, I hope that's all true.

    A session wouldn't have a shooting date because it might contain images shot at different times.

    I use sessions mostly because I have been using C1 since before it had catalogs, and it's what I am used to. But the session model can definitely serve you rather than constrain you. I'm just a hobbyist, not a pro. But for example if I go on holiday to France this year, I might in any case put all my holiday photos in a folder called 2016 France. So I create a session called 2016 France, C1 creates subfolders for Capture, Selects, Output and Trash, and I import my images into that session. If I take my laptop with me on holiday (I would!) I might well import more images into the session each evening and do some work on them. It keeps it all quite well organised. Similarly other sessions can be used for other things I do.

    So I find that it all works well with a system of organising my photos that I would use anyway.

    Ian
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  • HansB
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    ...
    At this point I see that a session might be just a name for a point in the file system;
    ...

    No. See here.
    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    CO needs this session to create standards like output-, capture- and trash folders. The session will also remember your settings if you replace these folders with some of your own. It has a keyword list, and it remembers the folder you were working in.

    The session itself is created in it's own folder.


    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    ...
    all photos in or below that folder would be in the 'session'.
    ...

    Again, no. The images are in folders somewhere on your drive. You simply browse the folders of your drive.


    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    ...
    There seems to be some information associated with the 'session', like a shooting date.
    ...

    Sorry, again no. The shooting date is in your images.


    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    ...
    But all adjustments are associated with individual photos via sidecars in the same folder.
    ...

    Close. Your image folder will contain an additional folder, created by CO. This subfolder contains all sidecars from adjustments.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Jim Hughes
    Ok so if I have a big tree of photos and want to use a 'dummy' session to browse them with C1, I'd need to create a session at or above the top of that tree. But now I'm confused because if the session creates its own root folder, how can I point it at an existing tree?

    Or does C1 create the session 'folders' in some arbitrary location unrelated to my existing folders, and never use the 'session' folder thereafter unless I import? If I import to a session does C1 make copies of the photos?
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  • HansB
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    Ok so if I have a big tree of photos and want to use a 'dummy' session to browse them with C1, I'd need to create a session at or above the top of that tree.
    ...

    And again, no.

    You simply have a session. Anywhere. And then you use the library tool to browse any folder of your drive. Or external USB drive, or NAS drive.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • HansB
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    ...
    Or does C1 create the session 'folders' in some arbitrary location unrelated to my existing folders, and never use the 'session' folder thereafter unless I import?
    ...

    It will use the 'Output' folder for processing, 'Trash' for trashing, 'Selects' for 'Move to Selects Folder'. Unless you define different locations for this session.

    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    ...
    If I import to a session does C1 make copies of the photos?

    Yes, to a location of your choice, inside your session or somewhere else. The original files stay where they are.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Jim Hughes
    So a 'dummy' session has no location in the file system, contains no photos either via copy or by references; it's just a set of of folders that C1 uses for internal purposes. Meanwhile, I use "Library" to browse and edit photos. Which sort of begs the question of why a 'dummy' session is needed at all, but that may be irrelevant.
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  • HansB
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    So a 'dummy' session has no location in the file system, contains no photos either via copy or by references; it's just a set of of folders that C1 uses for internal purposes. Meanwhile, I use "Library" to browse and edit photos. Which sort of begs the question of why a 'dummy' session is needed at all, but that may be irrelevant.

    Stop! The session is not a 'Dummy'.
    It has a location in the file system. You choose it.
    It can contain images. If you tether, import, trash something, move to selects, or process output, all to the standard folders.


    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    ...
    Which sort of begs the question of why a 'dummy' session is needed at all, but that may be irrelevant.

    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    ...
    CO needs this session to create standards like output-, capture- and trash folders. The session will also remember your settings if you replace these folders with some of your own. It has a keyword list, and it remembers the folder you were working in.
    ...

    CO is the software, the session the environment you are working in.


    Regards,
    Hans
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  • Jim Hughes
    I continue my attempt to arrive at the correct model by successive approximation...

    So a Session is... a set of folders, at a location I specify. Those folders will be used, at minimum, for C1's own purposes. They won't contain any photos unless I import to the Session. Once this not-a-Dummy Session exists, I can essentially forget about it and use Library to browse my existing folders, and edit photos in place, with the edits being saved as sidecars in folders created within my existing folders.

    Is this closer to the truth?
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  • SFA
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:
    I continue my attempt to arrive at the correct model by successive approximation...

    So a Session is... a set of folders, at a location I specify. Those folders will be used, at minimum, for C1's own purposes. They won't contain any photos unless I import to the Session. Once this not-a-Dummy Session exists, I can essentially forget about it and use Library to browse my existing folders, and edit photos in place, with the edits being saved as sidecars in folders created within my existing folders.

    Is this closer to the truth?

    I think you are making things far more complicated and structured than they need to be.

    In fact it reads as if you are starting out by thinking of a session in C1 as if it is a catalogue in LR. Or C1.

    Stand back for a moment. Forget everything you think you know about the session concept and start again.


    Grant
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  • Jim Hughes
    I think I'll put C1 aside for a while. I just tried to create and use a Session, as has been helpfully explained to me here - and couldn't get to square 1. On the File menu, there's no New Session, Open Session, or anything like that.

    What I see on the File menu is this:
    Import Images
    Import Catalog
    Import Session

    ... and further down, some grayed-out items about Albums and Smart Albums. Who knows what that's about.

    I think this is because I'm currently running Capture One Express, the free Sony version, thinking that if I like it, I'll upgrade. But I've now spent considerable time on this without even being able to browse my photos. All this catalog/session/album stuff is just overhead, it's not even relevant to what I want to do.

    I'm giving up for now. I'll wait a month to see what On1 Photo Raw has to offer, and revisit C1 after that.
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  • SFA
    [quote="NN635790973675498599UL" wrote:


    I think this is because I'm currently running Capture One Express, the free Sony version, thinking that if I like it, I'll upgrade.


    Correct.

    The "Express" version offers only the Catalog option.

    If you are trialling the C1 software (and are still within the 30 day trial period) you can change to the full Pro or Pro for Sony version to discover the session features.

    If your trial has expired it will become available again at the next significant release - i.e. 9.4 for version 9 - or when the next version after version 9 becomes available.

    If you are using "Express" I assume you are a Sony Camera user.

    By the way, even with the catalog work flow the "Import" option is not as constraining as you might imagine it to be.

    My feeling about catalog concepts are much like yours and originally I ignored the Import option for Sessions when using C1. However I discovered that it was actually useful and improved my workflow so I tend to use it most of the time but in the full knowledge that I don't have to.

    For example, when I work with my own images I normally import to make use of easy and meaningful batch based file naming and some other batch features I find useful ate that point.

    On the other hand if I am running a quick test of something or working with images downloaded from the internet as samples I would not usually import them - just use the Library tool to navigate to where the images are and work with them there.

    Of course your needs and preferences may be different.


    Grant
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  • Rodast
    C1 is initially not made to work without sessions or catalogs. It is possible to work this way, but it will always be a workaround.

    I tried this a while and went back to sessions. Here some reasons.

    - You cannot open an image out of the explorer of windows by clicking right an then choose "open with C1", as you think it should work
    - When browsing the systemfolders in C1 and clicking on a folder, which contains images, insted of the little arrow on the left, C1 will instantly start to create his proxies ... So often the are the subfolders of C1, where you don't want to have them
    - You always have to choose the correct outputfolder before exporting images
    - I think there are some nice features, which will be not available

    I have all my Images in Systemfolders, like I had them before I used C1. Now in these folders are the Sessions and I works really nice for me. My first thin in a session is to make the Sessionfolder a favorite and make it to the outputfolder. So the exported images are directly in the sessionfolder.
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  • Jim Hughes
    My problem is I've looked at several LR alternatives over time, and the 30-day trials all expired; I can't upgrade my 'Express' version right now. The software companies need to change this and make the trials more flexible. It takes longer than 30 days.

    On1 Photo Raw will no doubt have some impressive strengths but it won't be perfect. I do think that catalog-free browsing will be a hit and I hope companies like PhaseOne respond. If C1 had this, I'd have bought it by now.
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  • Robert Whetton
    Having always used 1 session (don't like the catalog import stuff). Being able to point at a folder of images and start working immediately increases my workflow performance.

    I grab images off of my cards using Downloader Pro, a small utility that's pretty powerful at renaming file as it transfers them (why don't I just import using CaptureOne? because I don't want all those files that are created within the program) Year Month# Job Name/RAW/
    I cull images using BreeseBrowser Pro, extremely fast and efficient at tagging the keepers
    I select all the keepers and move out of the RAW folder and up 1 level to Year Month# Job Name

    Then all I need to do is point at that folder in the System Folders in the Library Tab. Capture One starts making up the Preview Files and Default Adjustments I have set for my camera.
    I Can start working on my photos within a few seconds.
    I Export to a Destination of my choosing within the Output Location in the Process Recipes Tab.
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