Fit to screen preview is blurry.

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17 comments

  • IanS
    [quote="Art Dizamo" wrote:
    Please help me fix this. I have tried changing the image caching sizes, video card acceleration, and still nothing helps.
    Here I include a screenshot of how it looks, and how Windows Preview renders an image at the same zoom level. The difference is huge, I feel like im working with out of focus images. At 50% or higher the image is crisp, when you zoom out lower than 50% it becomes super soft.

    Example:
    https://i.imgur.com/XyW3fiy.jpg

    Please look at the image at full size.
    Thank you!


    It is certainly not normal for V12 on Windows. Some more information would help.
    Which version of Windows, it looks like 7?
    What monitor resolution is set?
    Do you have recipe proofing enabled?
    What preview size have you set and what camera / size is the image?

    As I said it is not usual so it looks like there is something different in your setup. Certainly everything is fine on my Win 10 (1903) C1Pro V12.1.4 setup.

    Ian

    Ian
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  • Art Dizamo
    Windows 7, all the service packs and up to date.
    Monitor res is 2560x1440. Tried setting Cache of preview image size to various settings, should it be the same as my monitor resolution?
    I never used recipe proofing, I just tried enabling it and it does make it a bit better, about 50% better, but still not as sharp as Windows preview. And it constantly displays "Proofing" on top of the photo. I dont want it there.
    I dont remember when it started happening but it definetly wasnt there in previous Capture One versions.
    All photos are from a 24mp camera, so, 6000x4000px.
    Thank you so much for taking your time to help me.
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  • IanS
    [quote="Art Dizamo" wrote:
    Windows 7, all the service packs and up to date.
    Monitor res is 2560x1440. Tried setting Cache of preview image size to various settings, should it be the same as my monitor resolution?
    I never used recipe proofing, I just tried enabling it and it does make it a bit better, about 50% better, but still not as sharp as Windows preview. And it constantly displays "Proofing" on top of the photo. I dont want it there.
    I dont remember when it started happening but it definetly wasnt there in previous Capture One versions.
    All photos are from a 24mp camera, so, 6000x4000px.
    Thank you so much for taking your time to help me.


    Well I have the same screen size as you and have no issues. ☹️

    You don't need the preview size to be the same as the screen resolution as you never use the full screen. It is normally recommended to use a preview size one or two below. My preview window works out at around 1800 pixels wide so you can use 2048 or 1920 and save some disk space for the previews.

    I would raise a support case with Phaseone through your account page. May be an issue with Win 7 as that is the major obvious difference between our systems. You are on V12.1.4 ?

    Ian
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  • Chirli
    Do you have a dpi scale in windows above 100%? Try it.
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  • Art Dizamo
    Yes, I have DPI scaling enabled in Windows. It's at 125%, otherwise everything is too small on my screen, unusable.
    I have noticed that in C1P, when I'm zoomed in at 100% and then I double click the photo, which zooms out to Fit to Screen, as image shrinks it becomes super sharp for like .5 - 1 second and then it snaps to that blurry state, it's like it's applying something to it?
    Is it possible to work with pixels directly, and not with the generated preview?
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  • Art Dizamo
    Ok, so apparently it's just how C1P does things.
    I just dont understand the advantage of doing it their way, maybe 20 years ago, ok, the computers were slow, but today?
    Here's what's happening:
    blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/9/capture-ones-preview-problem-and-how-to-get-around-it
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  • Chirli
    [quote="Art Dizamo" wrote:
    Yes, I have DPI scaling enabled in Windows. It's at 125%, otherwise everything is too small on my screen, unusable.
    I have noticed that in C1P, when I'm zoomed in at 100% and then I double click the photo, which zooms out to Fit to Screen, as image shrinks it becomes super sharp for like .5 - 1 second and then it snaps to that blurry state, it's like it's applying something to it?
    Is it possible to work with pixels directly, and not with the generated preview?



    Sorry I explained bad. If you use dpi scale above 125% try at 100% only to see if it's affecting. You can submit a ticket if it is the cause.
    I think I was affected with this blurry image in 12.1.x and try the 100% scale and I see fine image now, but I had an 32" 4K monitor and I can see all small but I can read all and I not changed the scale after.
    When I'll go home I will try another time changing scales.
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  • IanS
    [quote="Art Dizamo" wrote:
    Yes, I have DPI scaling enabled in Windows. It's at 125%, otherwise everything is too small on my screen, unusable.
    I have noticed that in C1P, when I'm zoomed in at 100% and then I double click the photo, which zooms out to Fit to Screen, as image shrinks it becomes super sharp for like .5 - 1 second and then it snaps to that blurry state, it's like it's applying something to it?
    Is it possible to work with pixels directly, and not with the generated preview?


    Scaling is recommended by Windows to be at 100% for my Dell 2560x1440 monitor by Win 10. My eyes are I suspect much older than yours and the text etc is fine.

    I suspect that you have text scaling / icon scaling set, not at default, somewhere in the system and that is why you are having problems. Something is certainly different in the display compared to my Dell monitor / Win 10.

    Ian
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  • IanS
    [quote="Art Dizamo" wrote:
    Ok, so apparently it's just how C1P does things.
    I just dont understand the advantage of doing it their way, maybe 20 years ago, ok, the computers were slow, but today?
    Here's what's happening:
    blog.thomasfitzgeraldphotography.com/blog/2017/9/capture-ones-preview-problem-and-how-to-get-around-it


    Thomas's comments only apply to Macs. There are a few Mac's which experience this issue but it is only a small number and is not reproducible by most others, therefore very difficult to resolve.

    See my comments about the difference between our very similar monitors regarding the size of text / icons you are seeing. This is likely the root cause of your issues.

    Ian
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  • Art Dizamo
    My monitor is also Dell, but having the DPI at 100 is really not an option for me - everything is too small to be comfortable.
    Images are super sharp in every other program: Camera RAW, Rawtherapee, Darktable, Camerabag, DXO, etc. And even in C1P they flash as super sharp and then revert to the blurry state, so it is possible for it to work, it just doesnt. The link I posted explains it pretty well I think, C1P doesnt render the changes to image in real time, only when set to 100% image size. Exported images look great.
    I don't understand why we can't work with pixels directly and have to work on "thumbnails" switching back and forth depending on zoom level.
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  • Robert Whetton
    [quote="Art Dizamo" wrote:
    C1P doesnt render the changes to image in real time, only when set to 100% image size. Exported images look great.

    What are your computer specs? changes should happen real time no matter what zoom level.
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  • IanS
    [quote="Art Dizamo" wrote:
    My monitor is also Dell, but having the DPI at 100 is really not an option for me - everything is too small to be comfortable.
    Images are super sharp in every other program: Camera RAW, Rawtherapee, Darktable, Camerabag, DXO, etc. And even in C1P they flash as super sharp and then revert to the blurry state, so it is possible for it to work, it just doesnt. The link I posted explains it pretty well I think, C1P doesnt render the changes to image in real time, only when set to 100% image size. Exported images look great.
    I don't understand why we can't work with pixels directly and have to work on "thumbnails" switching back and forth depending on zoom level.


    As I Have the same monitor and our experiences of the Windows scaling at 100% is so different I think it is logical to put the problems you are experiencing down to the fact you are using Win 7. What else could it be?

    One of the big improvements in Win 10 was with handling scaling on higher dpi displays. You need to raise a support issue with Phaseone although I am not sure how much priority such a request will get considering Win 7 goes EOL in January. I believe it is still possible to actually upgrade to Win 10 for free if you download the ISO from MS and do a ne w install. Google is your friend 😊
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  • Neil H

    Hi 

    You are having exactly the same issue as me!!! Tried everything also - scaling, resolution etc etc... - my hardware is good and software up to date. I'm on Capture One 20 and had this with the previous version. Only issues are in Capture One no other programs. It's so frustrating.

    I love C1 as a Fuji shooter but it is making me reconsider LR. 

    Problem is from "FIT" to 17%. Next roll of the mouse wheel that take the zoom to 25% and images are beautifully sharp. 

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  • Mark Porter

    Hi there
    I experience the same problem. Viewing at zoom to fit screen provides only a soft slightly out of focus image. As soon as I zoom to 25% or above I see nice clear pictures in sharp focus. My preview size is set to the resolution of my display (2560 x 1440) as recommended by CO, I'm on Win 10 with Windows scaling set to 100%, and I'm using CO v14.1.0.74. It's a pain to have to zoom in on every shot to see correct resolution - and it's obvious to me that we all want to see our photos looking clear and fully resolved in zoom to fit. Please CO moderators can you step in and answer. I can find no reason why we see out of focus previews when viewing and editing the whole image. Thanks, and hopeful. Mark. PS I love CO in every way, except this!

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  • SFA

    Mark,

    It is unlikely that you will see a response from the C1 team. This is meant to be a mainly User to User forum. Plus you have asked the question in a legacy section of the forum.

    If you wish to engage with Support use the "Submit a request" option to be found at the top of most Community pages and at various other locations in the FAQ sections. 

     

    What size are your source files?

    If they are very large the challenge might be that even at your native screen resolution a lot of data will need to be discarded to display the images at "fit to screen" size. 

     

    Since, ideally, images need to have sharpening applied differently for different output sizes (both print and screen) you may be at a point where your sharpening activity needs to take that into account, perhaps by utilizing an output recipe and activating proofing. 

    Of course one also has to consider viewing distance as well.

    C1 will attempt to work with the Preview file initially but will resort to calling up the original source file at some point when zooming and then the entire working image in memory is re-assessed and re-calculated rather than the already reduced pixels of the preview. That logic is an attempt to save storage capacity, keep catalog sizes manageable and make performance as snappy as possible. 

     

    Many think that sharpness should be a mostly end of processing activity when preparing for output. 

    Try that "Submit" option and see how things go.

     

     

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  • Mark Porter

    Hi SFA, 

    Thanks for your response. It's my first submission to the forum, so looks like I need to be aware of where best to post. Appreciate you took the time to point that out for me. 
    My image sizes I would guess are typical/nothing extraordinary in that they are full res RAW from Canon 7D, so that's 18mp sensor, with average image file sizes around 30Mb.

    I'll check out activating proofing, as I've not done that yet. And if I'm still bugged by the low res images at full screen I'll submit a request.

    Cheers

    Mark

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  • SFA

    Hi Mark,

    Never sure these days if a poster is a seasoned regular or a fresh poster!

    It doesn't help that for some reason the forum seems to create "accounts" for multiple people called "Firstname Lastname"!

    I would not expect a 7D sized file to be a problem although my laptop at 1920 likes to present its best details for C1 at above 50% zoom from "fit to screen". However I would not call them super-soft. Think Windows preview will simply be showing you the jpg embedded in the RAW file complete with whatever adjustments have been burned into it by in-camera settings.

    C1, unless you have added your own parameters, will be presenting it with some default data preparation that will include a little colour interpretation and usually some basic sharpening. Probably less than the camera applies to its jpgs. If you prefer more you can change the default setting on a per camera basis but I would suggest caution since lens and other factors need to be considered. That said I do have a slight adjustment applied to my Canon files for the import process (or editing first time if not importing) even though I tend to change the settings again during later processing.

    The problem is that when one gets the entire image "sharp" for an initial "fit" view if, as I often do, one then crops the image the post-crop display, in "fit" mode may well be at or over the "50%" zoom level and so sometimes might appear to be oversharpened for its purpose. No problem so long as one is aware the sharpening can be a moving target.

    One can get used to not worrying too much about perceived sharpness early in the process. The Loupe tool provides a quick way to assess the potential of an image in that respect. Or for a more permanently visual checker, there is the Focus viewer that may also help. It works particularly well if you have Output Recipes available with the Intended output type sharpening values set (for Print or Screen) and Proofing active - although of course, that is really an end of workflow activity.

    End result sharpness is influenced by so many processing factors that assessing the potential during initial views does not always guarantee satisfaction at the end result. However, any alternative default adjustment of sharpening on first viewing can be amended later so there is no harm to adding a little to the default values for the camera if you prefer to work that way and adjust if required later.

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