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Where to, now?

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165 comments

  • Franz J Wenzel
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    ....
    .....
    Also I re-ran the Catalog Sets to Collections script for Photosupreme and while it is now doing it automatically it's been running for two days non-stop and has still only done 3% of a 60,000 image catalogue. Certainly easier than doing it manually but a very long process.

    The search continues...



    Well, I am on a MacBook Pro and installed Parallels desktop, Windows10, and iMatch2018 (all on trial for now) and ingested 31372 images (after initial smaller testing sizes of course) - NEF, tiff, jpg, ARW, ORF, iPhone and iPad images... (just picked my 2016 folder) and the whole process took give and take 4 hours. Now, I have no Catalog sets nor Collections and little I have tried, the program is VERY powerful and deep (the software has Attributes, Collections [both system and user driven], and Categories [ also both user and system defined]! So far I know I just scratched the surface but it looks like I found a new home for my hobby...- there will be a learning curve, but it can be done in 'steps'...
    It has image versioning and image stacking...
    I am very impressed with its capabilities and excellent documentation. My main surprise was in its responsiveness considering the 'virtual' setup through Parallels. I chose coherence mode and iMatch is running in its own desktop with access to all my folders, files, and external hard drives.(I just swipe to it just like any other MAC desktop in full screen mode) - impressive!

    After looking a little closer at the ingested image sample I realized what a 'Metadata mess' a lot of them contained that didn't even show up in other software I am using - will take me a while to clean all that up but this software makes for a pleasant and fast work environment...

    @Ian3 - it did import my structured keywords of my files... and has what seems to be a sophisticated key wording system implemented.

    Overall, I am very pleased with my decision to give it a real try - still have about a week on my timer to make a final decision but for me it looks like the right thing to do ( if it just wasn't for having to deal with windows again it'd be 'perfect' for me ...lol 😂 😉 )
    My personally greatest difficulties I am actually having is with windows (have not used it in 10 years) and its weird ways of handling some of the details... - Apple users are just 'spoiled' that things just 'work'...
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  • RobiWan
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:

    Also I re-ran the Catalog Sets to Collections script for Photosupreme and while it is now doing it automatically it's been running for two days non-stop and has still only done 3% of a 60,000 image catalogue. Certainly easier than doing it manually but a very long process.


    I'm not sure what are you doing, but its not normal.
    Maybe is the script buggy. In that case, I'd do it differently.
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  • Paul Dymond
    I’m not sure either. I just ran the script and it’s slowly doing its thing. But having a closer look I’ve realized that the software has failed to load thumbnails for a little over 50,000 or so of the pictures so that might have been slowing it down. It’s slowly going through and loading the thumbnails but it’s very, very slow, particularly with the big TIFF files.
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  • HansDeZomers
    Photo Supreme is building thumbnails AND previews. To create these larger previews it loads the full image. That of course is a lot slower than loading thumbnails only. It’s a one time inconvenience and it runs in the background. No need to wait for it to finish.
    On occasions I just stopped the thumb building process, to start it again at a more convenient time. There’s a menu item for that.
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  • HansDeZomers
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Also I re-ran the Catalog Sets to Collections script for Photosupreme and while it is now doing it automatically it's been running for two days non-stop and has still only done 3% of a 60,000 image catalogue. Certainly easier than doing it manually but a very long process.

    The search continues...

    That doesn’t sound like it’s supposed to run that long. Did you report it?
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  • Paul Dymond
    No, I just gave up. The thumbnail building was taking way too long. Up to a minute for one large TIFF. I’m sure it might work for some people but I didn’t have any luck with it.

    Oh and I asked John Beardsworth about the LR Sync and he said that that is one of the functions that you lose when the subscription runs out, along with Develop and Map modules.
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  • HansDeZomers
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    No, I just gave up. The thumbnail building was taking way too long. Up to a minute for one large TIFF. I’m sure it might work for some people but I didn’t have any luck with it.


    I've seen quite a few TIFF files in my life while working in the printing industry and I found that Photo Supreme has among the best TIFF support of all the tools that I've used. It hasn't failed on me yet to load the few exotic flavors from my many years old archive. 8 bit, 16 bit, 32 bit, compressed, uncompressed, multiple alpha channels, RGB, CMYK, CieLab, and I probably forgot a few.
    With the full preview once built in Photo Supreme, you won't have to wait for the display of that file again. Building these thumbnails and previews is a one time operation and I never had issues with excessive long file loading times.

    Just for the fun of it, did a comparison to check how the loading time of large TIFF compare between MediaPro and Photo Supreme. Then at least we'll have quantified what we're talking about.

    My test file is a 554.8MB TIF file. Details about the file (ExifTool):
    3 channels, 16bit
    LZW compressed
    11520x7920 (w x h)
    Chunky Planar
    RGB photometric interpretation

    Loading times:
    1. Windows 10 takes 12 seconds to load the file in Photos
    2. High Sierra takes 14 seconds to load the file in Preview
    3. Photo Supreme takes 8 seconds to load the file in the Viewer
    4. MediaPro takes 8 seconds to load the file in the Viewer

    PSU and MediaPro score identical and so they have similar TIFF loading times. Then I rebuilt the thumb and preview for this file in PSU (ctrl+alt+t). That also takes 8 seconds. That was expected because to build the preview it needs to load the full image.

    Then I removed the file from the PSU catalog and import it again with Import Single Files. This time, the thumbnail building after import takes 25 seconds. That's about 3 times as slow 🤓

    I have no explanation for that and will report this.
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  • HansDeZomers
    [quote="HansDeZomers" wrote:
    Then I removed the file from the PSU catalog and import it again with Import Single Files. This time, the thumbnail building after import takes 25 seconds. That's about 3 times as slow 🤓

    I have no explanation for that and will report this.

    Just learned that this is fixed in the next 1675 build. Speedy as always.
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  • JimPogo
    I've been reading this thread with sadness... Started iView in 1998 or so! (the last version of iView works fine for me in High Sierra by the way -- good work Yan and team!). I also use the current Phase One Media Pro, and am finally used to it's black and orange Halloween scheme...

    I've never had to think of a replacement because it always worked. How is this app not more popular!?!

    Anyway, after reading all this, it seems there are a handful or other similar products. I do web work rather than photography and share assets with myself all over the place. I'm so used to having multiple catalogs open at once, being able to drag between clients and projects. Is there a list somewhere of those that are db based (one image set open at a time), and those that are Catalog based (as many as you want open at a time)?
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  • evgeny buzov
    Adobe Bridge CC still completely free and seems like most futureproof choice, of cause Adobe can change their money policy
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    But it won't show Capture One edits, will it?

    Ian
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  • evgeny buzov
    No, edits inside IIQ file are not processed, changes to workflow are required
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    ... so it may be that learning to love the C1 catalog is better.

    Ian
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  • evgeny buzov
    may be, but I found reliability and speed of c1 catalogs with >10k images not good enough, may be it will be improved (significantly) in upcoming versions
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Paul Dymond" wrote:
    Thanks Mark, apparently the 30 day trial [of Adobe Lightroom CC app for mobile devices] lets you use just the Library module after it expires but I'm not sure what happens to the ability to sync to the app. If you wouldn't mind letting me know in 30 days that would be great.


    Reporting back to Paul...

    After 30 days, the Lightroom CC app says "Trial Expired. To continue editing raw files, applying selective adjustments, and backing up and syncing your photos, you need to be a member of Creative Cloud."

    So, as expected, syncing no longer works between mobile device and desktop if you let the trial version(s) expire.
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  • syncrasy
    Revisiting this earlier observation of Lightroom Classic CC in "DAM only mode" (i.e., expired desktop trial version)...

    [quote="syncrasy" wrote:
    [...] I notice that the ability to launch an external editor (Edit In...) is gone, i.e., missing from the Photo menu. I can set up my external editor choices in Preferences, but they just aren't available for use by Lr. Is that normal behavior with an expired trial version?


    Anyone know the answer? If this is normal behavior, then that eliminates "Lightroom in DAM only mode" as a viable alternative to MP.
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  • Brian Carlson
    To say I'm distressed that MP isn't going to be around for long is an understatement. I was hoping somehow the software would continue in spite of it being neglected for so long (maybe someone would buy it?).

    Anyway, I'm exploring Photo Supreme as an option. But does anyone know what the workflow would look like using Photo Supreme as the cataloging software and Capture One 12 as the editor? I'm not super familiar with Capture so I would love to hear some thoughts.

    If anyone cares to know, I use Peter Krogh's system of "buckets," as it made the most sense while using Media Pro.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    I watched Peter Krogh’s tutorials on YouTube but I don’t remember “bucketsâ€. What was that?

    Ian
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="Ian3" wrote:
    I watched Peter Krogh’s tutorials on YouTube but I don’t remember “bucketsâ€. What was that?


    Krogh's bucket system advocates using a folder structure that is simple and functional but emphatically not based on photo content. It's a philosophy intended to leverage your DAM's metadata functionality for organization.

    Krogh introduced the idea in his 2006 book The DAM Book: Digital Asset Management for Photographers, which was centered around iView MediaPro. Google has a book summary. Click the preview link. The bucket discussion starts on p. 67.

    When I first bought iView MediaPro, I found the book very helpful in understanding DAM philosophy. I still use a bucket-type system, modified for my needs. I think the book should be required reading for all DAM users and software developers.
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  • Ian Wilson
    Moderator
    Top Commenter
    Thanks.

    Ian
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  • Gregory Edge
    I tried Photo Supreme and the trial worked well. It was not an ideal system, neither is Media Pro, but it worked. Then I decided to spring for the license and after that it would crash when I tried to open it. I went as far as reinstalling my OS from scratch with no change. The developer gave me my money back as he had no clue.

    I have decided to live with the catalog in C1. It gets a little better each version.
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  • Brian Carlson
    [quote="myotis" wrote:
    [quote="HansDeZomers" wrote:
    [quote="myotis" wrote:
    I didn't like Photo Supreme


    That's unfortunate. I've switched away from iView shortly after Microsoft acquired it. The concept in Photo Supreme is different, almost opposite, from that in iView/MediaPro.

    Photo Mechanic is reknown for their good software and you can expect good things. But fact is that there is currently no PM6 and once released I expect the DAM features to be basic.


    Photo Supreme was OK, and had some attractive features, but in the end I stuck with Media Pro, and added Neofinder as a "back up". Maybe "didn't like it" was a bit extreme, it was more that I didn't like it as much as the alternatives.

    Photo Mechanic 5 is at the centre of my workflow, so regardless of the new DAM features, I would probably upgrade. I would also be happy to continue with Neofinder as it does what I want. Its very fast to use and to update catalogues, allows for complex searches/smart folders etc and has a responsive developer. But it still makes a lot of sense, given how much I rely on PM5, if I could also use it as a DAM.


    When using Neo did you import your catalog sets from Media Pro? Or did you have to recreate them by hand? I'm trying to get my head around how NeoFinder works in that way...

    Cheers,

    Graham
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  • Franz J Wenzel
    MacBook Pro late 2015 here,
    I too got 'burned' by Photo Supreme (long story...)
    Since then I 'discovered' Neofinder and plain love it - I use it to find and organize my 'work in progress' which is also centered around Photo Mechanic 5 (ingesting, labeling, rating, archiving, and backup originals). Once done, I move my images to their 'final' resting places and proceed to ->

    For my DAM I went on creating a Parallels VM w Windows 10 and installed iMatch 2018 with seamless access through Mac OSX.
    There I have all my (mainly) images (originals, derivates, and even iPad/iPhone pictures) catalogued - after the initial learning curve, it now all works like a charm.
    To date, for me, it is the most versatile, stable, and responsive DAM I have tried out! Also support is VERY responsive.

    I am aware that it may be a bit of 'overkill' for my current (nonprofessional) needs but at the same time have not found an instance that I could not resolve with this set up.

    When using Neo did you import your catalog sets from Media Pro? Or did you have to recreate them by hand? I'm trying to get my head around how NeoFinder works in that way...


    Well, Neofinder only catalogs what you tell it to - a folder, a directory tree, or an entire volume - it is up to you what you want - while cataloging it will maintain the existing directory/file structure present on your device(s).
    It gives you access to your images even when they are 'off line' for viewing and finding - however to 'manipulate' you need to give it access to the storage device...

    Hope that helps a bit.
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  • Brian Carlson
    @C-F
    I could see using Neofinder in a similar vein (or Photo Mechanic for that matter).

    This is very helpful. I just discovered iMatch and was excited about the prospects but learned it was Windows and immediately poured myself a drink and sulked. But I thought the route you went re: running Parallels (though I have never done that so it kind of scares me...any tips or walk-throughs you know of?).

    I'm a professional so a little "overkill" is necessary.

    Really bummed Media Pro is no longer going to be supported. It really was a great option and from all the forums & software I've researched it really seems there is nothing which compares to it for the average professional.

    P.S. you talk like you've read The Dam Book, which is incredibly helpful!
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  • Franz J Wenzel
    (though I have never done that so it kind of scares me...any tips or walk-throughs you know of?).


    Well, ditto, but I just downloaded the trial sw and installed, leaving everything at its default settings; then did the same with iMatch... guess I was 'lucky' it worked right out of the box...- after my test runs I just purchased the license keys.
    Be aware though, there is a steep learning curve and it definitely is not the cheapest solution ( I upgraded my MacBook Pro to a 2TB ssd before starting the adventure + parallels sw, + Windows 10 sw, + iMatch). My most time consuming effort is to wade through my 12+ external HDD's and bring some order and standard naming while consolidating and eliminating duplicates. Right now I am about 30% done 🤓 ...
    The only 'inconvenience I found so far, and that seems a windows quirk, when hooking up external Hd's, the letter is not always the same so you have to manually tell iMatch where your images are ( funny part is, so far I have not found a pattern on when it changes or when it does not...).

    P.S. you talk like you've read The Dam Book, which is incredibly helpful!


    lol, right, not only one, but the original AND the latest edition - you are right very helpful in understanding the intricacies of what seems a 'black hole' of image organization.

    btw, several bottles of rum will indeed do the trick... 😉
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  • Ken Rubin
    So this is an old thread but I checked it in hopes of finding some answers, so the least I can do is provide one potential one.

    I too have been lamenting MediaPro's demise and have been trying to make C1 work well enough so as to have a one-package answer. Love C1 for the processing. Cataloging and asset management, not so much.

    The short story is that I've purchased Photo Mechanic, and was able to get onto the public Beta of the "plus" version which introduces catalog management. Only downloaded PM+ tonight, but thought it worth sharing a few first impressions:

    > Just like its namesake, the software is screaming fast. Much faster than MediaPro was. The intake of photos is probably 4x faster than what I'm used to, and they have not optimized it yet (per the vendor).

    > You can create as many catalogs as you like. When searching, there is an ability to designate (via checkbox) exactly which catalog to search, or the multiples you would like

    > Filtering applies to all selected catalogs, and can be done based on all IPTC metadata. Grouping and selection is the same as MediaPro (effectively)

    > While I was able to load most C1 content and metadata, I have not yet successfully loaded my color tagging or catalog sets. Since it is a one-time conversion, worst case is that I'll add temporary keywords to represent these, pull the images into the catalog and tag them correctly, and then delete the temp keywords. Will experiment and report back.

    > There are many more catalog management and maintenence tools available than in C1 (and possibly more than M1Pro). As a software guy I can appreciate how well this appears to be designed/engineered.

    > Loading from scratch a catalog of 35k images and metadata completed in well 20-30ish minutes on a 2015 Macbook Pro.


    On the downside, this is still a public beta. There are definite inconsistencies and bugs, to be expected. The Beta is only available to license holders of Photo Mechanic 6 ($150). Pricing for this product has not been announced.

    I think a concerted push from this community to the vendor requesting competitive upgrade pricing would be well worth the effort and may be fruitful. Too soon to be certain, but if the first impressions prove accurate I've found a worthy successor.
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  • Robert Edwards
    I've been using the PM6+ beta as well and it's definitely still an early beta! Under NDA so we shouldn't say too much outside the Camera Bits forum.

    re: catalog speed. I've run side by tests with Media Pro and Lightroom on a Mac. PM is faster as the previews it generates are smaller than the thumbnails I use in Media Pro and the Media Pro catalog is smaller. Using Smart Previews in LR it came out the fastest but created a much larger catalog.

    Early days yet but Photo Mechanic 6 Plus may be a viable, albeit very different, alternative to Media Pro.
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  • Ken Rubin
    Robert -- Thanks for the NDA reminder. I was excited about the offering and probably let that exuberance carry a little too far. Suffice it to say that I think there is hope for a strong alternative, which is very encouraging.

    I'll leave the thread there until they ship.
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  • Brian Carlson
    Has Camera Bits released the cataloging feature out of Beta? I've searched the internet for reviews and can't find any. Would love to know how it's coming along as I'd like to ditch MP ASAP so I can update my OS.
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  • syncrasy
    [quote="NN634436865827023491UL" wrote:
    Has Camera Bits released the cataloging feature out of Beta? I've searched the internet for reviews and can't find any. Would love to know how it's coming along as I'd like to ditch MP ASAP so I can update my OS.


    No, PM+ is still in Beta. I'd advise reading (and joining) the Camera Bits Forums to keep up with the latest developments.

    Because new software development is so unpredictable, I'd also advise making contingency plans in case PM+ doesn't have the features/functions you need. I plan to continue using Media Pro on my High Sierra OS for the foreseeable future (at least another year). My older Mac can't be upgraded to the latest OS anyway, so my "worst case scenario" contingency plan includes keeping/maintaining this computer just to run Media Pro.
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