Printed Output from C1P Unusable?
Hi all,
I'm a licensed C1P10 user who is currently trialling C1P11.
This issue may affect other C1P versions also, because I've never printed directly from C1P before…
I’ve just burnt through almost a complete box of Canson Super A3 paper to come to the following conclusion: printed output from C1P11 is unusable. The problem is reproducible.
Simply do this:
1. Export TIFF from C1P11 then Print using Epson Print Utility.
2. Print directly from C1P11.
All printer profiles and settings otherwise identical…
Method 1 prints correctly and matches screen soft proofing.
Method 2 does not with major colour shifts and some additional contrast being added somewhere.
Has anyone else experienced this?
I am an experienced home-printer and all of my devices and paper are fully colour profiled.
Apart from the money and time wasted, I’m more concerned about my lost confidence in C1P. If this problem is related to the perceptual rendering engine of C1P, couldn't that affect other parts of the application also?
I've contacted P1 technical support and am currently waiting for a response...
Paul
I'm a licensed C1P10 user who is currently trialling C1P11.
This issue may affect other C1P versions also, because I've never printed directly from C1P before…
I’ve just burnt through almost a complete box of Canson Super A3 paper to come to the following conclusion: printed output from C1P11 is unusable. The problem is reproducible.
Simply do this:
1. Export TIFF from C1P11 then Print using Epson Print Utility.
2. Print directly from C1P11.
All printer profiles and settings otherwise identical…
Method 1 prints correctly and matches screen soft proofing.
Method 2 does not with major colour shifts and some additional contrast being added somewhere.
Has anyone else experienced this?
I am an experienced home-printer and all of my devices and paper are fully colour profiled.
Apart from the money and time wasted, I’m more concerned about my lost confidence in C1P. If this problem is related to the perceptual rendering engine of C1P, couldn't that affect other parts of the application also?
I've contacted P1 technical support and am currently waiting for a response...
Paul
0
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[quote="paulsydaus" wrote:
Has anyone else experienced this?
YES !! ☹️
And my workaround is just to edit my pictures from C1 with PS (thus, creating a TIFF), and print from PS.
The proof profiled images I have on my calibrated display are all the same (C1: RAW and TIFF, PS: TIFF), but unfortunately, I cannot print directly from C1 without color shifts.
I have looked at various forums, asked questions, opened a case with the C1 staff, but no answer yet.... except my workaround.0 -
I have only printed from CP1 version 10. Just for grins, I printed to a business printer (HP 8710 Office Jet Pro) using HP glossy paper. I did not use a profiled printer or display. I did not proof profile the image. I expected some pretty bad results, but was surprised to find the printed image was amazingly close to what I saw in the display.
My experience with photo printers is that they do well with minimal tweaking on glossy paper made for the printer, but yield surprisingly inaccurate results when using specialty papers. This was true in Aperture and Photoshop. Not every paper profile gives accurate results.0 -
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I mean this in the nicest possible way, but the use case and workflow you just described does not qualify you to respond to the topic.[quote="NN635680879799322049UL" wrote:
I have only printed from CP1 version 10. Just for grins, I printed to a business printer (HP 8710 Office Jet Pro) using HP glossy paper. I did not use a profiled printer or display. I did not proof profile the image. I expected some pretty bad results, but was surprised to find the printed image was amazingly close to what I saw in the display.
My experience with photo printers is that they do well with minimal tweaking on glossy paper made for the printer, but yield surprisingly inaccurate results when using specialty papers. This was true in Aperture and Photoshop. Not every paper profile gives accurate results.0 -
Thank you, I'm glad to hear that I am not going crazy.
It's a shame because the majority of images I work on don't end up in PS and being able to print from C1P would have been very useful (saving generation of a 200MB TIFF for starters)...
Given that P1 are supposed to be experts in colour, it really does bother me that they can't send data to a printer without screwing it up in some way that is not accessible to the user...[quote="tenmangu81" wrote:
[quote="paulsydaus" wrote:
Has anyone else experienced this?
YES !! ☹️
And my workaround is just to edit my pictures from C1 with PS (thus, creating a TIFF), and print from PS.
The proof profiled images I have on my calibrated display are all the same (C1: RAW and TIFF, PS: TIFF), but unfortunately, I cannot print directly from C1 without color shifts.
I have looked at various forums, asked questions, opened a case with the C1 staff, but no answer yet.... except my workaround.0 -
Paul wrote, "Thanks for the reply. I mean this in the nicest possible way, but the use case and workflow you just described does not qualify you to respond to the topic."
Of course the example workflow does not qualify me. My point was actually to reinforce some of your observations. This is not my usual work flow or printer for photos. I thought it was clear that it was a worst case scenario. I also have resorted to Photoshop for printing for the same reasons you cite. My point was, even if you use the most amateurish approach, you should have gotten better results if the profiles actually worked. Apparently the ones for glossy paper are so common and well defined, they are not problematic. For specialty papers, not so much. The C1P printer/paper profiles should work to print the images as you see them in the proof. However, not all of this is necessarily C1P's fault. I have used both Epson and HP printers and A3 and A4 papers for many years and found the same images printed to the same specialty papers from the same software printed as expected on Epson, but not HP. Figuring out how to print accurately often payed for by wasting a lot of paper.
I am certainly not qualified to explain all of this, and I expect the best approach is to file a support request or make a bug report.0 -
Thanks, no harm intended.
Yes I've filed a support ticket and I hope P1 can fix this.
FYI I use an Epson 3880 with mostly Canson Platine Fibre Rag and Velin Museum Rag papers. I have had custom profiles made for me by an extremely experienced commercial printer and I have never had any issues with my workflow until trying to print from C1P. I know what I'm doing and how to assess results. It is clear to me that the printing engine in C1P is broken. If I were P1, I would consider this to be a "critical" issue with C1P.
It seems the only workaround is to export into TIFF and print using another application.
If you don't need to trip into PS for retouching, I can highly recommend Epson's Print Layout utility to handle printing tasks...
Paul[quote="NN635680879799322049UL" wrote:
Paul wrote, "Thanks for the reply. I mean this in the nicest possible way, but the use case and workflow you just described does not qualify you to respond to the topic."
Of course the example workflow does not qualify me. My point was actually to reinforce some of your observations. This is not my usual work flow or printer for photos. I thought it was clear that it was a worst case scenario. I also have resorted to Photoshop for printing for the same reasons you cite. My point was, even if you use the most amateurish approach, you should have gotten better results if the profiles actually worked. Apparently the ones for glossy paper are so common and well defined, they are not problematic. For specialty papers, not so much. The C1P printer/paper profiles should work to print the images as you see them in the proof. However, not all of this is necessarily C1P's fault. I have used both Epson and HP printers and A3 and A4 papers for many years and found the same images printed to the same specialty papers from the same software printed as expected on Epson, but not HP. Figuring out how to print accurately often payed for by wasting a lot of paper.
I am certainly not qualified to explain all of this, and I expect the best approach is to file a support request or make a bug report.0 -
[quote="paulsydaus" wrote:
If you don't need to trip into PS for retouching, I can highly recommend Epson's Print Layout utility to handle printing tasks...
Good idea !! I have a Canon printer, and I will try using Canon Printer Utility.
I submitted a case in August 2017, which was closed probably because I told the thechnical support that I could manage my printings using the Photoshop workaround......
Actually, I told them that even using Apple's "preview" or Affinity Photo gave me rather good results.0 -
[quote="paulsydaus"] wrote:
Thanks, no harm intended.
Yes I've filed a support ticket and I hope P1 can fix this.
FYI I use an Epson 3880 with mostly Canson Platine Fibre Rag and Velin Museum Rag papers. I have had custom profiles made for me by an extremely experienced commercial printer and I have never had any issues with my workflow until trying to print from C1P. I know what I'm doing and how to assess results. It is clear to me that the printing engine in C1P is broken. If I were P1, I would consider this to be a "critical" issue with C1P.
It seems the only workaround is to export into TIFF and print using another application.
If you don't need to trip into PS for retouching, I can highly recommend Epson's Print Layout utility to handle printing tasks...
Paul
Paul,
Totally agree and presumed you found a serious actual flaw in C1P 11.You should not have to export to another app to print. One way I found to save on paper when trialing new printers or software was to cut the expensive paper into much smaller pieces and print miniatures. You get enough information to at least see if printer and software gets you close to what you want.
Please let us know how the support folks resolve this.
Jerry0 -
All,
I've found a partial workaround which doesn't involve exporting from C1P.
It involves bypassing C1P colour management for printed output:
1. In the "Print Dialogue Box", you need to select "Managed By Printer".
2. Then click on "Print Settings" to access the printer driver settings.
2a. Ensure the driver "Color Matching" setting is set to "Colorsync" with your target paper profile selected.
2b. Don't forget to also check/change the "Media Type" settings in the driver "Print Settings" also...
This will result in a correct print.
What concerns me though is that there is no option for selecting rendering intent and black point compensation within the driver settings using this method hence this is only a partial workaround. But nonetheless results look acceptable to my eyes...
Don't do this:
If you instead use the "Color Profile" setting within the C1P print dialogue box to select the paper profile, the output will be screwed up (C1P either isn't applying, or is applying incorrectly the output profile before sending data to the printer).
Paul[quote="NN635680879799322049UL" wrote:
[quote="paulsydaus" wrote:
Thanks, no harm intended.
Yes I've filed a support ticket and I hope P1 can fix this.
FYI I use an Epson 3880 with mostly Canson Platine Fibre Rag and Velin Museum Rag papers. I have had custom profiles made for me by an extremely experienced commercial printer and I have never had any issues with my workflow until trying to print from C1P. I know what I'm doing and how to assess results. It is clear to me that the printing engine in C1P is broken. If I were P1, I would consider this to be a "critical" issue with C1P.
It seems the only workaround is to export into TIFF and print using another application.
If you don't need to trip into PS for retouching, I can highly recommend Epson's Print Layout utility to handle printing tasks...
Paul
Paul,
Totally agree and presumed you found a serious actual flaw in C1P 11.You should not have to export to another app to print. One way I found to save on paper when trialing new printers or software was to cut the expensive paper into much smaller pieces and print miniatures. You get enough information to at least see if printer and software gets you close to what you want.
Please let us know how the support folks resolve this.
Jerry0 -
I find this thread a little strange as I have no problem printing to my Canon PRO-100 using the Capture One Print system, admittedly I am on Windows 10 but the fundamentals should be the same. This series of pictures of the settings I use should be self explanatory
Here I set the color profile and rendering intent etc
selected the printer and then select preferences
Basic settings media etc on quick setup then select main tab
On this page set color/intensity to manual and select set
I find the Pro-100 tends to print a bit dark so I have set brightness to -20 then select matching tab.
I think the most important thing to remember is to select none in color matching the final screen not icc profile
Hope this helps0 -
How is it strange? This is a Mac forum and the application, operating system and colour management software (Colorsync) are completely different... [quote="David532" wrote:
I find this thread a little strange as I have no problem printing to my Canon PRO-100 using the Capture One Print system, admittedly I am on Windows 10 but the fundamentals should be the same. This series of pictures of the settings I use should be self explanatory
Here I set the color profile and rendering intent etc
selected the printer and then select preferences
Basic settings media etc on quick setup then select main tab
On this page set color/intensity to manual and select set
I find the Pro-100 tends to print a bit dark so I have set brightness to -20 then select matching tab.
I think the most important thing to remember is to select none in color matching the final screen not icc profile
Hope this helps0 -
[quote="paulsydaus"] wrote:
How is it strange? This is a Mac forum and the application, operating system and colour management software (Colorsync) are completely different...]
A bad choice of words perhaps, the feeling on the Windows side is sometimes that the Mac version gets a lot more effort than the Windows version (probably because there are more Mac users of Capture One). I was surprised that the Windows version of the print module works ok despite the well known intricacies of the Windows Color Management system while you were having problems on Mac where I assume Colorsync is much better documented. I illustrated my workflow as I understand that the GUI for Capture One is similar in both versions and the printer driver GUI have much the same settings if slightly differently laid out.
I would be interested to hear the result of your support case.
Dave0 -
I am having the same problem I cannot get the printer to print to the size I specify in C1 it seems that the C1 printing is too difficult to understand. I am trying to pring a 11x17 and I get something like 7.5 x14 so I am going to try and export to PS and see if that works. I have had printing issues with C! since the beginning. There needs to be a tutorial on everything to do with printing out of C1-11 0 -
@paulsydaus
Thanks Paul !!
I have tried using a printing management by the printer, with the printer/ink/paper profile introduced in the printer driver, and it works !! I get the same results as using Photoshop, but it is simpler as I don't have to create a TIFF for Photoshop. The workflow is then much better.
But I keep thinking the Photoshop printing tool is more user-friendly.
I can't understand why a printing management through C1 doesn't work in my case (and presumably yours).0 -
Thanks, I shall try Epson Print Utility ! 0 -
Well, this is a deal breaker for me. I had enough trouble wrestling with the print module in v10. No way am I going to upgrade only to have more problems. And no reply here from P1. I guess we can't depend on C1P into the future. Adobe is winning. 0 -
[quote="tallrob" wrote:
Well, this is a deal breaker for me. I had enough trouble wrestling with the print module in v10. No way am I going to upgrade only to have more problems. And no reply here from P1. I guess we can't depend on C1P into the future. Adobe is winning.
Have you contacted the C1 Support Team directly?
This forum is provided as a user to user resource in the main. If you are seeking a specific answer to a specific question then use the Support Case system.0
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