So Where's v.4?

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34 comments

  • Anonymous
    ...available in 2007 ...

    http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?t=3201

    cheers,
    k c
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  • dbritch
    2006... 2007...

    Hmm - what's next?

    Interesting that it's been unquestionably delayed, many times, but there has been no public comment on any reason for the delay. Given this, I see no reason to realistically expect it to be out in 2007.

    Would someone at Phase One like to provide a reason for its customers to believe that this date is real, unlike the others?
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  • Anonymous
    dbritch,

    http://forum.phaseone.com/viewtopic.php?p=12548#12548

    KC
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  • dbritch
    I apologize for the tone of my previous post. However, I do *not* apologize for its content.

    The issue is not one of immediate gratification. Rather it is of missed commitments. The users have not arbitrarily demanded a new version. Instead, they have asked why it has not been released when Phase One said it would. The response is clear - it will be released when Phase One decides to, and not before. Any discussion is pointless - no reason(s) will be given, and the users are childish for repeatedly requesting information beyond this. Whatever has caused the delay thus far may or may not continue, that that is not a topic for discussion here.

    Perhaps Phase One sees this as good and appropriate support, but I do not. At any rate, I will refrain from discussing it further in this venue.
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  • Scott311
    This is why I now use Light Room......... 😭
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  • Anonymous
    spiritman, ... and yet you're at the Phase One Forum... 😉

    dbritch,
    The delay has gone from specified Quarter and broadened to specified Year ~ 2007.
    And to be specific for PRO - 2Q was original expectation which ends June 30th
    We'll know upon Release the true delay period.

    The Commitment is a version UpGrade to Capture One and this has not / will not be missed whatsoever.
    I fail to understand what explaining the delay would accomplish.
    We in Support don't get an explanation why there is a delay.
    I'm not a Developer, but if they say the program needs further work before release - It Does - and I take their word for it.

    And in the meantime, ... I continue to work efficiently on my RAW images in the current version of Capture One for the best possible images my DSLRs can produce 😄

    Cheers,
    K C
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  • Scott311
    [quote="Keith Carpenter" wrote:
    spiritman, ... and yet you're at the Phase One Forum... 😉

    K C


    Yea I keep coming back to see if you guys have "changed you ways" But I guess this thread tell's the whole story....... Even your "joke" about me being here. I paid my fee to be here.
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  • mannesty
    [quote="Keith Carpenter" wrote:
    And in the meantime, ... I continue to work efficiently on my RAW images in the current version of Capture One for the best possible images my DSLRs can produce 😄

    Lucky you. You obviously don't have one of the newer cameras for which CaptureOne still has no support.

    IMHO, spiritman has had a long association with PhaseOne, and has always been let down. Customer loyalty is not a given, you have to work at it.

    I, on the other hand, have only had a very short association with PhaseOne, and guess waht, I've been let down too.

    A 6 month wait for software (which I've paid for) to support my new camera is not acceptable to me. I've heard all of the arguments about one product actually being 38. Y'know what, it's only one I'm interested in. C1LE in English.
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  • Scott311
    mannesty,
    Thank's! I would have PM'ed you. But this forum doesn't let us do that any more! If you or anyone Else wants to understand Phase One's approach to customers. All you have too do is read the moderators post's here. Also many other threads. Its in Black & White! I put in my post, he slaps me with a joke? Whats up with that??? Sorry you were made too wait also. I finaly came to the end of my rope with them. But still find it funny that they are still here........
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  • Anonymous
    It is such a tough choice whether to respond here.
    Spiritman, - reviewing all of your posts reveals that their only content is negativity and complaints about release dates.

    The intent of this Forum is to be positive, constructive and provide User to User support for Phase One products.
    It is refreshing to know that the vast majority of participants do use the Forum for its intended purpose.
    Sadly, others want to make it personal and vent or whine.
    There is a Forum Rule about not complaining.
    If you have issues with Phase One, you are more than welcome to take them up directly with Phase One, but this User Forum is not the place for it.

    The tough choice in a response is because when a professional High Road is taken by ignoring these types of posts, it gets out-of-hand anyways.
    When ignored, more heated and sarcastic posts are made.
    When these get locked or deleted Censorship is cried out.
    Then when I do post the best information available and my logical, personal thoughts, they are never enough for ones that are intent on continuing to complain.
    Mannesty
    I fail to see how you’ve been prevented from enjoying your camera.
    Shoot RAW, they’ll last intact forever and you will be able to process the best images possible when Capture One 3.7.7 arrives.
    1 - You purchased a new camera that at the time was not supported.
    2 - Pentax K10D and K100D owners submitted Feature Requests for Support.
    3 - Support has been implemented and will arrive very soon in version 3.7.7 update.
    4 - There were many Support Cases from Pentax K owners who seem to be content to know that this support is forthcoming.
    Most have responded with similar comments to:

    Thanks, that's great progress.

    Thank-you for the update. I will be eagerly awaiting the next release!

    Phase One is indeed still here and won't be going anywhere.
    Since starting the Digital Back and RAW workflow program efforts, we remain in the forefront.
    We do so by creating and supporting great products.
    We do so by being loyal, protective, honest, and responsive to our Dealers and our Customers.
    In return, we get respect, constructive communications, and loyalty.

    Sincerely,
    K C
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  • Scott311
    Keith,
    I forgive you. I know you tried. But maybe you could rethink why I am only saying "reviewing all of your posts reveals that their only content is negativity and complaints about release dates".

    Could it be that if you people were on-time with what was promised that I might have responded differently? Just a thought. I don't have this problem on other boards. That should tell you something. I don't like your attitude to your customers! It only seems to be getting worse. To bad because I LOVE the software. Oh well I have real work to do. See ya.....
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  • NN88997121
    [quote="spiritman" wrote:
    Keith,
    I forgive you. I know you tried. But maybe you could rethink why I am only saying "reviewing all of your posts reveals that their only content is negativity and complaints about release dates".

    Could it be that if you people were on-time with what was promised that I might have responded differently? Just a thought. I don't have this problem on other boards. That should tell you something. I don't like your attitude to your customers! It only seems to be getting worse. To bad because I LOVE the software. Oh well I have real work to do. See ya.....


    Ditto, I agree with your negative responses. I'm tired of it.
    Maybe they are trying to get out for the dust of LIghtroom 😄.
    Anyway, I feel the previous versions have been pretty ho hum and didn't get my money's worth since I had to resort using other Adobe products to fix my problems with C1. Especially when there has been no support for X3F RAWs and 64bit OS in Vista.
    Maybe they need a complaint C1 forum since we can't expose our true emotions here.
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  • mannesty
    [quote="Keith Carpenter" wrote:

    I fail to see how you’ve been prevented from enjoying your camera.
    Shoot RAW, they’ll last intact forever and you will be able to process the best images possible when Capture One 3.7.7 arrives.
    1 - You purchased a new camera that at the time was not supported.
    2 - Pentax K10D and K100D owners submitted Feature Requests for Support.
    3 - Support has been implemented and will arrive very soon in version 3.7.7 update.
    4 - There were many Support Cases from Pentax K owners who seem to be content to know that this support is forthcoming.


    Keith,

    I haven't been prevented from enjoying my camera. I do shoot RAW, and process in Lightroom.
    1 - My new camera did have RAW support from day 1 of it's introduction, from Adobe (DNG) & SylkiPix (PEF), but not the PhaseOne product that I had bought for the purpose of managing my RAW workflow.
    2 - I'm happy to know that.
    3 - I don't doubt that at all. My point is that support was due in first qtr '07. It's late.
    4 - I was content to know that. At least I was content when I believed it would be available by end March '07. It is only since that date has come and gone that I have been disappointed (read discontented).

    Like it or not, people will use this forum to air their grievences because it is quick and easy. Also, it helps to know if others have similar feelings. Like I said previously, sometimes you need to hear things that you'd rather not.

    In the meantime, keep up the good work. Excellent forum and I hope to be back some day asking 'proper' questions.

    Cheers,
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  • Ian1111
    Requests for features in V4 has been closed since sometime in 2005. I put some there.
    I received a newsletter advising that v4 would be available earlier this year, both newsletter and software.

    I don't visit this forum much, because I am a very happy user, but would like ot see what is actaully being offered in the virtual V4. I haven't seen any document published or on this site that actually states what will be in v4.

    Maybe it is time for drool statement from Keith, so we know the wait has been worthwile.

    Ian M
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  • John4
    ...well, just another user heard from...I've been using COne since its inception. If I had waited on a competitive product that would have been several years. in fruition.

    Over that time, the Pro version has been upgraded substantially....at no charge. By comparison, Adobe has had ACR at $99, then incorporated it into PS, which has had 3 upgrades totaling an additional $500 per install over that period.

    I earn my living using this software and have for years, I'm sure any delays in providing any new version (and the additional revenue stream that would mean) are based on providing a stable product rather than pushing an unstable release out the door. Proof of that are the interim support releases that have been made after V4 was announced.

    The announcement gave me a rough time frame during which I could decide wether to purchase a MAC to get the features of that version or wait on V4, anyone who views that as a promise that was broken is destined to live life railing at all hardware/software vendors from Microsoft and Canon on down, and cause the rest of us that use announcements as planning purchases a problem, as prerelease announcements become rarer and rarer.
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  • Scott311
    OK, John.
    The next few customers you have. Delay delivery of you product. Like say 3 or 4 time's. And every time they ask you about it. Talk down to them. You know, like I'm holding all the card here, and you - well you are nothing but an irritant with an attitude problem!!

    See what they say to you. See if they don't go somewhere else. And maybe they will tell others about you too!!! This is my complaint, not what you have said. But I am not mad at you. Just them......... 😡
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  • John4
    Spritman...I understand your frustration, my post was just to point out that a release needs to be stable, and in the case of COne...is constrained by the existing user interface (and IMHO, that lack of retraining is a major plus vs relearning say, ACR with every release)

    ...I understand your analogy, but the fact is my physical delivery of a portrait and the delivery of a conceptual software product have absolutely nothing in common....

    FWIW, I am also currently waiting on Canon, a database, and some Vista 64 drivers...I think at least some of the delay has to do with a late OS release for Windows that causes a chain reaction....
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  • Scott311
    John,
    You are entitled to your opinion. I as well. I think you both are selling a product. Your is tangible, his may or may not be. But you are both selling something with a due date! Both dated by the manufacturer.

    But whats the diff. I don't want to stat something here with you. I just don't see how what you said fits this thread........
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  • dbritch
    Let's not get too distracted - we're all anxious for 4.0 to actually ship, and Phase One has made it quite clear that they will provide no information as to either the cause or extent of the delay. However, I believe Ian had a very reasonable question.

    Could someone from PhaseOne give us a little more information on what specific features to expect in version 4.0? There is a screenshot and press release here: http://www.phaseone.com/Global/Campaign ... eOne4.aspx.

    The press release indicates that it will be 3x faster, will have a redesigned user interface, DNG support, new tools and additional functionality. We've heard elsewhere that it is re-architected to make it more modular and more maintainable. I'd love to hear more about the new tools and additional functionality.

    Incidentally, that press release also says that the LE version will be released in the beginning of 2007, and the Pro version will be released at the end of the second quarter of 2007. I guess it's a little out of date. 😉

    Thanks,

    David
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  • Ian1111
    John Malloy,
    I have been using C1 since late 2003. I have paid for a number of upgrades (of the pro version), I am an active member on the beta testing panel, I have been very active in this forum in the past and put a number of suggestions into the V4 upgrade thread.

    It would be nice to know what I am waiting for. C1 is my primary raw convertor and will reamin that way for a number of years, but unlike you I don't make any money out of my photography, I get the ooh and ahhs, but no sales.

    2005 the v4 thread closed, it is a long time to get a product stable without even releasing a version to the beta testers.

    Maybe, by the time it is released I might have my new camera to add to the testing profile.

    Ian M
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  • Sheldon1
    Every company has their way of releasing programs. Perhaps we have our expectations a little high in light of the way that Adobe has done their recent releases by putting out a fairly fully functional beta and let the user world debug it for them. Microsoft keeps a pretty tight rein on the release of software as well and the circle of beta testers has to sign their life away if they speak to it before it is released. Phase One has decided to stay tight lipped on their product and that is entirely their right. I'm sure that they have weighed the pros and cons of not coming out with more information. They seem like a well run organization and will not make these decisions lightly.

    You can come on here and call them names and be totally bitter about the whole process and what does it gain you other than to puff your chest out. Nothing, imo.

    Is it the fact that you can't do conversions today. No, I have 5 different DSLR's and I can do RAW conversions from every last one of them. I've seen people complain about "their" camera not being supported but who said that they have to provide support for every camera. Again this goes back to the concept of making smart business decisions. Do you provide support for a camera that has a smidgen of market share or focus on the ones where your sales potential is the greatest. Simple fact of the matter is that today we do have a product that is functional in the respect of being able to take our RAW files and turn them into usable files. I just don't get the idea of coming here and spewing venom when you know it is not going to gain you anything. If this was impeding my business then I would gladly jump on board the negative bandwagon but it simply is not.

    I would love to see a few teasers about what we are going to see in V4 but I also realize that it is their right not to do it. Are people going to leave to try the likes of Lightroom, maybe. This is again a weighed business decision that they have obviously made. I think that the likes of Spiritman have made their point and it is time to let it go and we will wait (some more patiently than others) for version 4.
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  • Nando From Brazil
    😄

    Rules:
    To keep the discussion at Phase One forum in a courteous and professional level, please follow the Rules.
    Failure to comply, may result in deletion of post, temporary or permanent ban from website.
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  • mannesty
    [quote="ssim" wrote:
    You can come on here and call them names and be totally bitter about the whole process and what does it gain you other than to puff your chest out. Nothing, imo.


    So you believe that customer feedback achieves nothing? You are wrong. This forum may not be the correct vehicle to air ones views, but it is necessary, and I hope valuable to Phase One, that they get customer feedback, good & bad.

    Phase One should by now be well aware that their customers are getting a tad fed up with (their own) missed deadlines and lacking, or at best, very late, support for new cameras. If that hasn't achieved something, I don't know what will. Many customers, me included, have tried and moved to Adobe's Lightroom.

    Regards,
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  • bei
    I’ve always assumed the delay in V4.0 was due to programmers moving on to other ventures… Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t C1 created by Michael ?? and bought by Phase One… then I think Michael moved on to Raw Shooter which was then purchased by Adobe… so the main programmer hasn’t been around for a number of years to finish V4…. Of course I could be totally wrong with this info but my recollection is stated above.. 

    David
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  • Nill
    No, I don't think so. My memory is not so good these days either, but my recollection is that Michael's program was YarcPlus, which he abandoned when he signed onto the C1 bandwagon. But I could be wrong too.

    OTOH, I do seem to recall that some of the original C1 development team bailed to start RSE. No?

    Nill
    ~~
    www.toulme.net
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  • alfin
    I think you guys are mixing up the Michaels. Yarc Michael is Michael Tapes. He has never been involved in any C1 development; he was just a US C1 rep back then. Michael Johnson was the C1 developer that left Phase One and started Raw Shooter and is now part of the Adobe Photoshop Lightroom team.

    The sad thing about Phase One is that they have a very bad reputation when it comes to upgrading their software in time. They lack support for several cameras that are presently provided by Adobe in their Camera Raw and Lightroom software. The wait for version 4 is just pushed further into the future, an unfortunate habit of Phase One with their software updates.

    I’m sure version 4 will be a nice update and a really good raw converter, but unfortunately a lot of Phase One’s customers might already have switched to other applications by then. Hopefully the wait is because of hard struggle to include more workflow functions and to keep up with competition in a way that pays of in the end.

    I really wish C1 to become a real alternative to Adobe again, both in terms of raw conversions and workflow. To be successful, they have to speed up development.
    Time to market is not just corporate bullshit.
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  • dbritch
    I agree that it would be good for the delay to be in order to incorporate new features and improved workflow over the initial alpha releases. However, if that is the cause for the delay, I would strongly prefer that Phase One make multiple releases - rather than waiting to make one big one.

    But it's not my decision, and Phase One has indicated rather strongly that this sort of feedback is completely irrelevant to their development and release process. Capture One used to have a clear lead in image quality over other products. Maybe when 4.0 is release, they will regain a clear leadership. I'm certainly looking forward to finding out! 😉

    David
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  • mschoen
    I have used C1 since it was first released (I seem to remember it being on Thanksgiving Day here in the US. I was so excited) 😄 Loved the program. Ignored the rest.
    I paid the $200 for future upgrades and waited patiently. I have since moved on to Lightroom.

    I may be wrong (it's just my opinion) but I've come to believe Phase One no longer wishes to continue making new versions of C1.

    Mark
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  • Brian5
    This thread, and others similar, speak volumes about the company. I've used C1 for some time now, and love the product in the past. I now have C1, Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 w/ camera raw. It amazes me how much work the other companies put into their product, and Phase seems complacent. Maybe they simply feel that their product is the best on the market and does not need improvement. Maybe it's a money thing....I have no idea what their financials are.

    The surprising thing to me is how defensive they are in these threads. It's a clear indication that they are very aware of the fact that they are rapidly falling behind, and tired of hearing about it. It's sad really......They had the best product going into the game, and all they had to do was continue to develop it and would have dominated the market. Would be nice to know the real story behind this company and their decisions.
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  • eleanorbrown
    Everyone can choose to use Capture One, Lightroom, ACR, etc but users of the new Phase Plus backs. The file imformation for these backs missed the cutoff time for inclusion in Lightroom 1.1 or ACR 4.1 update so are not supported. I have a plus back and am stuck with the current Capture One software, which is not at all adequate for the large dynamic range this back captures. (requires multiple processings in Capture One and then blending in Photoshop to take advantage of the information the back has captured.)

    I have tried to get specific information about when to expect Capture One 4.0, which I'm told, will be completely redesigned, but no one answers my questions. Lightroom, or ACR won't have another update for at least 2 more months. So I'm stuck with using a high end back with inadequate software and have no idea when to expect updated software. I wish Phase could give us a realistic time frame about when to expect Capture One 4.0. Eleanor



    [quote="bmacphoto" wrote:
    This thread, and others similar, speak volumes about the company. I've used C1 for some time now, and love the product in the past. I now have C1, Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 w/ camera raw. It amazes me how much work the other companies put into their product, and Phase seems complacent. Maybe they simply feel that their product is the best on the market and does not need improvement. Maybe it's a money thing....I have no idea what their financials are.

    The surprising thing to me is how defensive they are in these threads. It's a clear indication that they are very aware of the fact that they are rapidly falling behind, and tired of hearing about it. It's sad really......They had the best product going into the game, and all they had to do was continue to develop it and would have dominated the market. Would be nice to know the real story behind this company and their decisions.
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