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Are you serious about update price politic??

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69 comments

  • Christopher O'Grady
    I finally purchased a Fuji GFX *because* of Capture One support.

    I upgraded from the Sony version to the PRO version on November 1st (29 days ago).

    There are several issues I need fixed like the fact that I can't operate the camera with live view activated in C1 as well as the ability to control the camera with Capture Pilot. These will never be fixed in V11 because of V12.

    It says my license *cannot* be upgraded.

    "None of your licenses can be upgraded."

    I've filed a support case...

    I'd be incredibly angry if they made me pay full price after upgrading 29 days ago.
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  • HansB
    [quote="detroitechno" wrote:
    I finally purchased a Fuji GFX *because* of Capture One support.

    I upgraded from the Sony version to the PRO version on November 1st (29 days ago).

    There are several issues I need fixed like the fact that I can't operate the camera with live view activated in C1 as well as the ability to control the camera with Capture Pilot. These will never be fixed in V11 because of V12.

    It says my license *cannot* be upgraded.

    "None of your licenses can be upgraded."

    I've filed a support case...

    I'd be incredibly angry if they made me pay full price after upgrading 29 days ago.


    Tried your upgraded licence in v12? It could have been upgraded automatically for the grace period. If so, there is indeed no license that can be upgraded.
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  • Christopher O'Grady
    [quote="HansB" wrote:
    Tried your upgraded licence in v12? It could have been upgraded automatically for the grace period. If so, there is indeed no license that can be upgraded.


    Holy smokes! That worked! I put in my V11 license and it activated. Again, it was only 29 days ago.

    Crisis averted!

    Thanks for the info HansB!!!
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  • Robert Cheong
    I thought by switching to Capture One Pro (I started from Version 9) was a smart move as compared to continued living with the "dark side". Heck I even upgraded to Version 11 for continuity. This release of Version 12 and the asking price for the upgrade is just plain ridiculous and outrageous Phase One! Be fair to your Users.
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  • Bernd Kunze
    I ranted about this last version , there is no feedback from Phase One.
    My guess is their strategy is to ignore and let us steam off here.

    It is sad, but they get into Adobe mode.... I have moved my workflow back to LR, I
    Pay there consinderably less for much much more. Even if I hate the subscription model.

    Many photographers I know moved back. Adobe keeps the price attractive.
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  • joseph92
    About the price for the upgrade, If Phase One consider that they have the market to sustain such an increase without loosing their customers, well that’s their choice, no argument about that. I’m pretty sure that they have figured it out pretty well.

    What is not fair to their customers is that those who decided not to upgrade (may be waiting for v13) might feel trap very quickly, simply by upgrading their operating system or buying a recent camera (Nikon Z for instance). A fair gesture would be to avoid technical obsolescence by providing upgrade for pervious releases (at least v-1) to keep up with new OS, new cameras or even fixing old bugs. Unfortunately I don’t see it on P1 roadmap ☹️

    This problem become more evident with a major release out every year.

    Apple provide technical upgrade for previous Mac OS (at least for awhile), even Windows XP was patched long after its replacement. I know a few software editors who do the same.

    Yes that’s cost money, so what. C1 cost us a lot to begin with.
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  • PhilippePierre
    [quote="photoGrant" wrote:

    The biggest insult is not including camera support, or bug fixes for the previous releases. With this pricing at least the previous version or two should see the same bug fixes and camera support as the latest version.
    Either way, each year the harp of confused and upset customers rings louder.

    Thank you photoGrant, perfectly resumed. A shame indeed.
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  • Duncan Andison
    I've upgraded this year and do like what they've done. That said, I also have LR CC (which I don't use at the moment) so I think I will set it up and create a 2019 catalogue to see how it fairs. If it works out ok and Phase one add another 30-50% increase then that will be that. I don't mind paying my way but I don't want to be seen as a cash cow and for them to take the P out of me.

    The telling point now is that the upgrade now costs more than LR and PS together. While it would mean having to re-learn LR after many years away from it, it is becoming the sensible choice given it is now cheaper and more capable option.
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  • Alexander Morozov
    Hi everyone,

    I got an email "Introducing Capture One 12" like many others and clicking on a link below "We offer special upgrade prices for all existing Capture One users" I expected to see something like €70-100 😊 Unfortunately, the price is €179 (for CO10 users). Well, photography is just a hobby for me and this is too much I guess. I was a loyal CO user since 2008 when I bought CO4. I have CO4, CO6, CO7, CO8 and CO10 licenses. I really like CO, this is a great tool, but I cannot afford it now.
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  • Christiaan mak
    The upgrade price is also getting too much for me. I skipped v11, reasoning that you can skip a version and still have an agreeable upgrade price, but when I log in, I get a 179,- euros upgrade price v10 to v12. It would have been acceptable if support was top notch, but bugs that I opened support cases for are unadressed in v12, the lens profile for the Loxia 25 that I opened a support case for 5 months ago is nowhere to be seen. And on top of that, Phase One simply omits high end cameras like the Pentax K1mkII (released 8 months ago) from support.
    To have to pay 179,- euros for a years' usage of software with support like that is just not an option for me. I saw this coming though last year, when the same uproar started over the price rise, so I have started getting familiar with Lightroom CC classic and it seems just as good as CO1 nowadays, but with much better support for new cameras and lenses.

    Chris
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  • Gary Chancer
    I am going to reply again. I have scene a lot of photographers talking about how the prices are to high which I agree and yes it said when you opened up the Sony express program you would get a better price to upgrade which didn't happen you had to pay full price. I sent a email to C1 and the response was among other things that yeah it kind o says that but there is no special pricing even though it said there was. I have been a photographer for many years, I am now disabled with a neck and back injury, arthritis in my hands and I am on social security so I don't have a lot of money to pay the new pricing. I am still out there shooting and know they probably do not even read these posts or just ignore them, I guess I might have to start looking at programs like On1 RAW 2019 with a lot lower price forget stuck going back to ps(dont really want to). I am not a troll so this semi rant is just how I feel and my situation. To tell me that I can get an upgrade for 119.00 and then the next day the price jumps up to 189. or such plus or if you try to buy just last version 11 you can't it sends you right to v12.
    I understand about r&d, I understand cost factors but this doesn't make sense this is just more profit my opinion.
    If anyone else wants to tell me that I am off base with this that's fine I am a good listener but evertone situation is a little different.
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  • Y81
    Pro tip! Get Capture One Pro during Black Friday / Cyber Monday and add a 10% discount code. Comes with a free upgrade to the next version too. Though it's a little late now. For next year!
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  • Shane Baker
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Phase One dropped the price of capture One by say a third, they'd make more money.

    The cheaper the product, the more people would buy it - and the increased sales would more than compensate for reduced profit per sale.

    There are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative to LR. Phase One could scoop up most of them if they'd just get their pricing right.
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="ShaneB" wrote:
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Phase One dropped the price of capture One by say a third, they'd make more money.

    The cheaper the product, the more people would buy it - and the increased sales would more than compensate for reduced profit per sale.

    There are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative to LR. Phase One could scoop up most of them if they'd just get their pricing right.


    The question is if they’re interested. I think the “Pro†in “Capture One Pro†is a dead giveaway. I used to be a pro event photographer and frankly if I had to worry about $30 or $50 more for my main software I’d have been a pretty lousy photographer, seeing a single day event grossed *at least* $1000.

    For the masses shooting Sony or Fuji, Phase One provides a free version. That’s a pretty good offer that Adobe can’t match.

    And if they were to go after Adobe, they’d probably have to triple their support staff. Including office space etc., the cost of that is not trivial. It would completely change their organization and focus. I can totally comprehend it if they’re unwilling to do that. Being a bit of a niche player isn’t that bad.

    Lastly, we’re all mostly here because we either think Capture One is a superior product or because we simply dislike Adobe’s business model. That means we’re probably biased. I know many people who don’t share those beliefs and are perfectly happy with Adobe. It might just be that the market of people craving to switch is less vast than we presume it to be.

    I really don’t know Phase One's point of view; I understand your reasoning. It’s just that there are other options for them to consider and wether we like it or not, they might even make sense for them. I do hope though that next year we'll be anticipating new features more than dreading new price hikes.
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  • pvonk
    I agree with you Emile. And if you've taken a business course, one of the first things you learn are the price vs demand curves. I don't know what they are for C1, and I doubt others here know either. Plus there's the other variable of developer costs. I'm sure C1 has smaller demand compared to Adobe. They probably have fewer coders. Makes the equation tighter for them. For all I know, this may be a money loser for them.
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  • paul schefz
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    [quote="ShaneB" wrote:
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Phase One dropped the price of capture One by say a third, they'd make more money.

    The cheaper the product, the more people would buy it - and the increased sales would more than compensate for reduced profit per sale.

    There are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative to LR. Phase One could scoop up most of them if they'd just get their pricing right.


    The question is if they’re interested. I think the “Pro†in “Capture One Pro†is a dead giveaway. I used to be a pro event photographer and frankly if I had to worry about $30 or $50 more for my main software I’d have been a pretty lousy photographer, seeing a single day event grossed *at least* $1000.

    For the masses shooting Sony or Fuji, Phase One provides a free version. That’s a pretty good offer that Adobe can’t match.

    And if they were to go after Adobe, they’d probably have to triple their support staff. Including office space etc., the cost of that is not trivial. It would completely change their organization and focus. I can totally comprehend it if they’re unwilling to do that. Being a bit of a niche player isn’t that bad.

    Lastly, we’re all mostly here because we either think Capture One is a superior product or because we simply dislike Adobe’s business model. That means we’re probably biased. I know many people who don’t share those beliefs and are perfectly happy with Adobe. It might just be that the market of people craving to switch is less vast than we presume it to be.

    I really don’t know Phase One's point of view; I understand your reasoning. It’s just that there are other options for them to consider and wether we like it or not, they might even make sense for them. I do hope though that next year we'll be anticipating new features more than dreading new price hikes.

    the world is full of people complaining about adobe, but at the end of the day, 10$/month buys PS, a high end C1 competitor in LR as well as an entire cloud/mobile eco system incl portfolio, behance,....and people complain....
    so charging (at this point) more or less 10 (or more) /month to keep C1 updated looks a little strange.....
    C1 v12 looks good, the improvements are welcome but we all know that we use C1 for the color and raw machine....LR classic has a ton more features and is a far superior DAM, LR CC is clearly the future (and much, much, much leaner and faster then both c1 and LR classic)....
    phase used to be a hardware company.....now they are a software company....but times are changing, there are so many options coming out left and right, we might laugh and not consider them serious, but at the end of the day, it eats into R&D and these other people aren't stupid either....
    charging more for what now is pretty much superior raw conversion is a a slippery slope.....everybody has to have all this other software, which is doing more and more and better and better....LR does a great job at raw conversion....i happen to prefer C1.....but i never thought i would ever (have to pay) for C1....i got started and my first copies with my first phase back....but we all know how that turned out....
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  • Emile Gregoire
    [quote="PSS" wrote:
    [quote="Emile" wrote:
    [quote="ShaneB" wrote:
    I've said it before and I'll say it again: if Phase One dropped the price of capture One by say a third, they'd make more money.

    The cheaper the product, the more people would buy it - and the increased sales would more than compensate for reduced profit per sale.

    There are a lot of people out there looking for an alternative to LR. Phase One could scoop up most of them if they'd just get their pricing right.


    The question is if they’re interested. I think the “Pro†in “Capture One Pro†is a dead giveaway. I used to be a pro event photographer and frankly if I had to worry about $30 or $50 more for my main software I’d have been a pretty lousy photographer, seeing a single day event grossed *at least* $1000.

    For the masses shooting Sony or Fuji, Phase One provides a free version. That’s a pretty good offer that Adobe can’t match.

    And if they were to go after Adobe, they’d probably have to triple their support staff. Including office space etc., the cost of that is not trivial. It would completely change their organization and focus. I can totally comprehend it if they’re unwilling to do that. Being a bit of a niche player isn’t that bad.

    Lastly, we’re all mostly here because we either think Capture One is a superior product or because we simply dislike Adobe’s business model. That means we’re probably biased. I know many people who don’t share those beliefs and are perfectly happy with Adobe. It might just be that the market of people craving to switch is less vast than we presume it to be.

    I really don’t know Phase One's point of view; I understand your reasoning. It’s just that there are other options for them to consider and wether we like it or not, they might even make sense for them. I do hope though that next year we'll be anticipating new features more than dreading new price hikes.

    the world is full of people complaining about adobe, but at the end of the day, 10$/month buys PS, a high end C1 competitor in LR as well as an entire cloud/mobile eco system incl portfolio, behance,....and people complain....
    so charging (at this point) more or less 10 (or more) /month to keep C1 updated looks a little strange.....
    C1 v12 looks good, the improvements are welcome but we all know that we use C1 for the color and raw machine....LR classic has a ton more features and is a far superior DAM, LR CC is clearly the future (and much, much, much leaner and faster then both c1 and LR classic)....
    phase used to be a hardware company.....now they are a software company....but times are changing, there are so many options coming out left and right, we might laugh and not consider them serious, but at the end of the day, it eats into R&D and these other people aren't stupid either....
    charging more for what now is pretty much superior raw conversion is a a slippery slope.....everybody has to have all this other software, which is doing more and more and better and better....LR does a great job at raw conversion....i happen to prefer C1.....but i never thought i would ever (have to pay) for C1....i got started and my first copies with my first phase back....but we all know how that turned out....


    Serious competition for C1 would be great! Thing is, I see most alternatives competing with LR at the relatively lower end, trying to snatch away enthusiasts with pretty good software for a very reasonable price. Why would PhaseOne choose to enter that battle? With all that competition over there, wouldn’t it be far wiser to compete at the high end, snatching away the professional market at a premium price? And again, they’ve got the greatest offer of all: their great engine for free for Sony and Fuji shooters. I hate price hikes as much as everyone else, but I can see the logic of it all.

    Anyway. Not my place to defend them so I’ll butt out of this discussion. Just trying to offer a different perspective!
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  • Mark Langridge
    Not saying anything new here, but just adding my 10c worth to the pot... £149 upgrade C1 11 to 12... Absolutely ridiculous. Forget it.

    Mind you, given the also ridiculous cost of their camera systems I'm not surprised they're trying to make a little money back on the software. They've just crossed the line for me, personally, though.
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  • Jeff Talbert
    [quote="photoGrant" wrote:
    [quote="vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv" wrote:
    [quote="pxpik" wrote:

    You'll be surprised what areas of this software will leap frog others in terms of feature release but bugs from ~8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15 will still be prevalent.


    Me. I am on the trial, started with trial of CO11 and ran into issues with thumbnail creation. Opened a ticket was told since I am using Mojave, CO11 is not fully compatible with Mojave and there will be bugs.

    Later that some day CO12 was released and the same thumbnail bug still exists, and C012 is Mojave compatible.

    The reality is, Phase One, is moving towards a subscription model like Adobe and Microsoft and many others. They don't care about customers who want to pay once for an app and thats it.

    This is why full price is now $299, its to make paying $180 annually easier to swallow.

    Its all about business and finding ways to force your customer to keep paying to keep the revenue coming in.

    Its all business and its sad.

    This shows Phase One does not care about increasing market share and trying to steal customers from LR.
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  • Gary Chancer
    I guess the question is simple, is there really anyone except PS that is completion for C1? There are Affinity Photo, On1 Raw 2019 and Luminar but are they really competiton?
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  • Phil Thornton
    Oh get over yourselves!

    It's great software, and if you don't care about radial and luminance masking, keep you wallet shut. But for the price of a few prints you get those features, and they're well worth it.
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  • Gary Chancer
    When your on disability every dome counts dont tell me to get over myself I also think its great software but I am being priced out
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  • Clive Schmidt
    On the subject of pricing;

    Can anyone tell me the what Perpetual means in the purchase of a Perpetual Licence?

    I can't find an explanation anywhere on the Capture One site.
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  • SFA
    [quote="ozbusa" wrote:
    On the subject of pricing;

    Can anyone tell me the what Perpetual means in the purchase of a Perpetual Licence?

    I can't find an explanation anywhere on the Capture One site.


    It means that the licence you have for a particular version will continue to work for that version (and those before it should they be of interest) without HAVING to pay more to keep things running as one has to do using the subscription model.

    There are advantages to both options depending on one's needs though as I recall Phase considered the introduction of the subscription model to be something that added additional cash flow flexibility for Professional operations as the main objective.

    The challenge one has with the perpetual licence are those of Compatibility with:

    - your Operating System of choice and what its vendor decides to do;

    - your camera(s) and whether future upgrades might compromise the use of older version of the software

    - your lenses for much the same reason as for cameras

    - that your level of functionality from the available tools my not, long term, give you everything you feel you need.

    As far as I know that is all one needs to be concerned about. However if anyone have any points to add or corrections to offer all comments are welcome.


    Grant
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  • Clive Schmidt
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="ozbusa" wrote:
    On the subject of pricing;

    Can anyone tell me the what Perpetual means in the purchase of a Perpetual Licence?

    I can't find an explanation anywhere on the Capture One site.


    It means that the licence you have for a particular version will continue to work for that version (and those before it should they be of interest) without HAVING to pay more to keep things running as one has to do using the subscription model.

    There are advantages to both options depending on one's needs though as I recall Phase considered the introduction of the subscription model to be something that added additional cash flow flexibility for Professional operations as the main objective.

    The challenge one has with the perpetual licence are those of Compatibility with:

    - your Operating System of choice and what its vendor decides to do;

    - your camera(s) and whether future upgrades might compromise the use of older version of the software

    - your lenses for much the same reason as for cameras

    - that your level of functionality from the available tools my not, long term, give you everything you feel you need.

    As far as I know that is all one needs to be concerned about. However if anyone have any points to add or corrections to offer all comments are welcome.


    Grant

    Ok Thanks.

    My current licence is for Capture One Pro 11 Single user.

    My upgrade option is Capture One Pro 12 (excluding the licences with Style Packs).

    There is no mention of perpetual.

    If I was a new user and wished to purchase Capture One Pro 12, it is called perpetual.

    Does this mean my existing licence for 11 and upgrade option to 12 are perpetual licences?
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  • John Doe
    If you don't choose subscription then yes, by default what you purchase is a perpetual license.
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  • Clive Schmidt
    OK, Got it.

    Thanks.
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  • Mark White
    I am trying the trail version at the moment. I currently use LR ans PS and was thinking of jumping ship to C1 but this pricing policy has put me off. It’s sad because I like the interface and use.
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  • Drugstore
    [quote="IanW" wrote:
    So new license purchasers get “free†styles while loyal users get a 20% price increase again!
    Sorry Phase One but too little, too late, too expensive. Since I upgraded to v8 in 2014 at £86 the price has steadily risen to £149 in 2018.
    I’ve just signed up again to the “industry leading softwareâ€, Adobe, where I get Lightroom, Photoshop, Lightroom on all my devices and more for 20% less than your upgrade price. Not to mention that the new gradient masks now works as LR’s has for years, a new radial gradient mask that has been in LR for years, a plug-in architecture which has been in LR since it’s inception.
    Looks like a case of playing catch-up from where I’m standing and all at an inflated price.


    Yup, some LR stuff copied. But better copy the crop tool. The one in C1 is just more or less unusable with too much mouse clicks and tool switching for horizont or rotations. It's no fun to use the crop tool!
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  • John Doe
    [quote="NN635299624516976000UL" wrote:
    [quote="IanW" wrote:
    So new license purchasers get “free†styles while loyal users get a 20% price increase again!
    Sorry Phase One but too little, too late, too expensive. Since I upgraded to v8 in 2014 at £86 the price has steadily risen to £149 in 2018.
    I’ve just signed up again to the “industry leading softwareâ€, Adobe, where I get Lightroom, Photoshop, Lightroom on all my devices and more for 20% less than your upgrade price. Not to mention that the new gradient masks now works as LR’s has for years, a new radial gradient mask that has been in LR for years, a plug-in architecture which has been in LR since it’s inception.
    Looks like a case of playing catch-up from where I’m standing and all at an inflated price.


    Yup, some LR stuff copied. But better copy the crop tool. The one in C1 is just more or less unusable with too much mouse clicks and tool switching for horizont or rotations. It's no fun to use the crop tool!

    I don't know what you mean by "too much clicks". I only have to press "c" to switch to crop, then use the mouse to crop and rotate.
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