APERTURE-WOW. what are the thought here? ;-)

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32 comments

  • gogol
    ...yeah, looks very promising! I think the developers of C1 Pro could learn a few things..... 😉


    gogol
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  • faeyer
    I'm holding my verdict until we can lay our eyes the results of RAW conversions. Aperture interface seems to be nice and fast...
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  • Andy312
    Aperture certainly does look impressive. However part of this is down to it's reliance on a pretty powerful processor and videocard combination. I for one don't have a powerful enough Powerbook to run it. This must apply to an awful lot of users - I don't intend to upgrade my Mac until I see how the move to Intel chips shapes up. It seems that for the time being at least both C1 and Adobe are catering for a much wider group of people.
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  • Jörgen1
    Look at the Aperture promotion video(fashion shoot). It certainly looks like a P1 back on the Mamiya. Does Aperture really support P1 RAW files ???

    I sure hope that P1 could make a effort in developing a Portrait sales software for us Mac users.
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  • olo1
    AFAIK it does not support tethered shooting and only dSLR cameras...

    and as long it does not really do the job on many different machines it is not even worth a look...

    BTW thank you Apple for not bringing out the Powerbk G5 2.5 dual core along with that software... 🙄

    Oh I know how \"chic\" it is to show off with two 30\" monitors in front of the client... 😉 but how embarrasing not be able to shoot tethered... excuse me I first must load my CF card that might take a few minutes... what a laugh!

    cheers Nicolas
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  • Anonymous
    The video promo is quite slick. That's the teaser.

    The problem is you need a Quad G5 to run Aperture and, according to the video promo, a couple of ultra wide flat LCDs.

    Now, notwithstanding Aperture purchase price at $500 US, the hardware alone might get you beyond $5000 US. For a really big photo studio in New York, that maybe ok, not for me.

    If you try to follow Apple these days, you might end up bankrupt pretty fast.
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  • Johanfoto
    That is a little bit over the top, don't you think? Of course you WANT to use a G5 Quad and two 30 inch Cinema displays 😉

    But the minimum requirements and even the recommended system is much less than that.
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  • Anonymous
    But of course I want the Quad G5 and the two 30 inch displays! Geez.

    But my wife won't let my write the cheque. ':lol:'

    I'm not sure the minimum requirements are much below a Dual Quad though.

    Seriously, all things considered, I don't need that kind of horsepower. It's not like I'm shooting 2,000 photos a day... I'd rather spend $5,000 on a Nikkor 28mm f/1.8, a 500mm and/or a D2x. 😉
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  • msbc
    The RECOMMENDED system is a Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 - not a Quad.

    The MINIMUM system is Power Mac G5 1.8 or PowerBook 15\" or 17\".

    Hardly big hardware requirements. Maybe you should read the specs and details before posting!
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  • olo1
    [quote="msbc" wrote:
    The RECOMMENDED system is a Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 - not a Quad.

    The MINIMUM system is Power Mac G5 1.8 or PowerBook 15" or 17".

    Hardly big hardware requirements. Maybe you should read the specs and details before posting!


    I hear what you are saying... but following the recommendation has never been a mistake! C1 is performing quite fast on my PB 12" on the go (tethered) and I assume Aperture would be a lame thing on it, not to forget not to be able to shoot tethered...

    cheers Nicolas
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  • Anonymous
    [quote="msbc" wrote:
    The RECOMMENDED system is a Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 - not a Quad.

    The MINIMUM system is Power Mac G5 1.8 or PowerBook 15" or 17".

    Hardly big hardware requirements. Maybe you should read the specs and details before posting!


    Sorry, my friend, but you totally missed the point I was trying to make. Maybe it's my bloody bad English. Forget it. 😎
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  • Anonymous
    to: msbc:

    I decided to add something else about \"minimum hardware requirements\"... Please read the following from someone who actually played with Aperture on a Quad at the New York Photo Plus Expo recently (read parag 3 and 4 with the asterix):

    Jeffrey Osterman

    I went to PhotoPlus Expo today at the Javits Center in New York and had a chance to play around with Aperture while I was there. I wanted to pass along a few initial reactions (recognizing, of course, that the version on display was pre-release):

    * As an initial release, the amount of thought that went into Aperture is remarkable. Time and time again, the program showed fine finishing touches that I rarely see in 1.0 versions of software. It's a lovely program and I think it will be a pleasure to work with.

    * Performance seems quite good, although I note that most of the images Apple is using to demo are 3-4 megapixel RAW files; when using larger RAW files (10 megapixel or thereabouts) on the quad G5s, while previews were fast, it took some time (on the order of 10 seconds or so) for the images to snap into full resolution and for the loupe to become available.

    * The program consumes a great degree of processing power, meaning that it's likely to make computers kick off a lot of heat. One of the steps in the demo involved \"lifting\" adjustments made to one picture and \"stamping\" them onto 5 others at once. When I did that, while the computer was working, I felt a wave of hot air come up from under the table. I assume that the Intel-based Macs will help in this regard, but for now I'd hope to use Aperture in a well-ventilated room.

    * While I think it may be a complete substitute for Adobe Bridge and Adobe Camera Raw, and Aperture does some things you'd use adjustment layers for in Photoshop, the retouching features in Aperture (particularly the spot and patch tools) struck me as pretty far behind those in Photoshop. The spot and patch tools don't seem to have the logic that the corresponding tools in Photoshop (healing brush and patch) have -- i.e., the ability to make sure the edges blend and being able to copy texture from one portion of an image while matching it to the color of the destination portion of the image. I assume this is because the tools in Aperture work \"live\" and it would be hard (to say the least) for them to continually recalculate on the fly. On the flip side, because they're live, you can at any time later choose a different source spot for the patch tool or change the area/radius/softness associated with the spot tool. It also appears that Aperture doesn't have any of the more compute-intensive features that Photoshop has, particularly Shadow/Highlight, Lens Blur and Smart Sharpen. Thus, while Apple talks about using Photoshop for more extreme creative processing, my sense is that many if not most images I'd want to print would likely pass through Photoshop.

    * While creating multiple variants of a single RAW file solely in Aperture doesn't consume masses of file space, since only the adjustments to the RAW file are saved, I assume that opening a file in Photoshop, making changes and then saving as a PSD (which is linked in Aperture to the original file) will substantially expand the amount of disk space used.

    * iPhoto input is one-way only (i.e., no export back to iPhoto) and results in a copy of the iPhoto library being made in the Aperture data store. Similarly, importing an existing folder tree of photos results in duplicates of all being kept by Aperture.

    All that said, I came away with an extremely favorable impression and I'm certainly going to buy a copy as soon as it becomes available.


    The source: http://www.macintouch.com/aperture.html

    Let me who how it goes on a G4 PB... 😂
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  • jjlphoto
    Aperture does not allow the user to select custom camera profiles. You must be satisfied with Apple's generic ones. So if you are a fan of Magnes profiles, or camera profiling, forget it.
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  • Eve Schaefer
    I too was at PhotoExpo and had a chance to play around with the software and speak to various Apple people. I walked away with a few impressions:

    1) It is definitely not a Photoshop competitor. It works with PS psd files, although it cannot work with individual layers in the psd file.

    2) Aperture (at least for ver. 1) is all about workflow -- not (Photoshop) compositing.

    3) Its GUI is impressive.

    4) It's speedy.

    5) No. . .you don't need a dual core Power Mac G5 to drive it.

    6) No \"tether\" capability yet.

    I own both P25/H1 and Canon 1ds systems. I will purchase Aperture for my Canon system. And although I have been a loyal C1 Pro user, I hope that the P25 file format will one day be supported by Aperture. Having a choice is a good thing.
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  • Anonymous
    Minimum system requirements

    Power Mac G5 with 1.8GHz or faster PowerPC G5; 17- or 20-inch iMac G5 with 1.8GHz or faster PowerPC G5; or 15- or 17-inch PowerBook G4 with 1.25GHz or faster PowerPC G4 processor
    1GB of RAM

    One of the following graphics cards: ATI Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition; ATI Radeon X850 XT; ATI Radeon 9800 XT or 9800 Pro; ATI Radeon 9700 Pro; ATI Radeon 9600 XT, 9600 Pro, or 9650; ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 or 9600; NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL or 6800 GT DDL; NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT; NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500
    5GB of disk space for application, templates and tutorial
    DVD drive for installation

    Recommended system

    Dual 2GHz Power Mac G5 or faster
    2GB of RAM
    One of the following graphics cards: ATI Radeon X800 XT Mac Edition; ATI Radeon 9800 XT or 9800 Pro; NVIDIA GeForce 6800 Ultra DDL or 6800 GT DDL; NVIDIA GeForce 7800 GT; NVIDIA Quadro FX 4500
    5GB of disk space for application, templates, and tutorial
    DVD drive for installation

    Source: Apple Canada Store
    http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/W ... MA154Z%2FA

    Now, what to make of the terms \"recommended\" and \"minimum\"? In my humble opinion, \"recommended\" usually means what you need to get a software running properley. In this contexte what does \"minimum\" means? Bare minimum, maybe?

    One thing is sure for me: if I buy Aperture, I will indeed buy the \"recommended\" hardware.

    The comments I read from those who have played with the new sofware were clear about one thing: you need very strong processing power. See the comments published notably on http://www.macintouch.com
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  • NNN636917144293400996
    I have this problem already with Capture One as I work at the studi with a G5 bi 1,8 and I do a lot of press work out in the wild with a Powerbook G4 and the difference is huge. About double the time, but the laptop is a nice heater in a cold room during the winter 😉

    I just expect the same with Aperture and will be happy with it.
    Don't forget you can also edit JPG and I can not find any sofware that are matching the old Fotostation 4.5 (yes I know it is very old but still one of the fastest on Mac)
    cheers

    Denis
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  • David Mantripp
    Aperture is certainly very impressive as a piece of user interface design, but what counts finally is the output. I'm far from convinced that Aperture will offer substantially more than C1 in functionality, and as far as I know, Apple does not have PhaseOne's experience in RAW development. So....

    C1 is fast, flexible, runs on very basic hardware (hell, the Windows version runs under VirtualPC, quite well - try getting Raw Shooter to do THAT !), and has a lot of experience under its belt.

    What I do like about Aperture is the kick up the a** it must give for C1 4.0 😊

    Then again, as an Apple junky, I daresay I'll buy the bloody thing sooner or later.
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  • riolok
    So Aperature does not support Phase One RAW files? Is that what I am hearing??

    Does anyone know how well it works on a server network?

    Thanks!
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  • Des1
    denisbalibouse wrote:

    Don't forget you can also edit JPG and I can not find any software that are matching the old Fotostation 4.5 (yes I know it is very old but still one of the fastest on Mac)
    cheers


    Yes-- It is a pity C1 does not offer any Jpg editing/manip- a flaw from my perspective anyway--even DPP does that!

    DesW
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  • damienlovegrove
    Richard Burbridge is using Aperture with a P25? in the apple promo film here isn't he?

    http://www.apple.com/aperture/profiles/

    If so it's looking promising.
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  • Des1
    Hmmm--Looks like an H series?

    Des


    http://image.inkfrog.com/pix/team201/Picture_3.jpg
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  • Eric311
    No custom profiles, but i'm sure this will evolve very quickly in later versions...

    The Burbridge promo was complete smoke and mirrors, quite embarrassing if you ask me (unless PhaseOne isn't telling us the whole story... But they haven't made their Raw files available to Adobe Camera Raw, so why would they play along with Aperture?)
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  • Ulf Liljegren
    [quote="Gleebitz" wrote:
    (unless PhaseOne isn't telling us the whole story... But they haven't made their Raw files available to Adobe Camera Raw, so why would they play along with Aperture?)


    Just a correction here. Adobe and everyone else is free to implement Phase One support just the same way as we have implemented support for a wast range of 35mm cameras.

    In the promo you mention it looks to be a H25 back but according to Apples web site they do not have support for Phase One. Maybe they are planning to, the same way Adobe is according to a write up on Luminus Landscape. Who knows!
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  • Eric311
    Ulf - that's a very interesting reply: I had always assumed that it was PhaseOne who didn't want C1 files to be developed in ACR (which can read .mos files.), so as do keep people in your own app.

    But your point seems to show this is not the case, so I assume Adobe and Apple simply don't have interest in supporting high-end backs -- maybe because that's still a \"niche\" market for them.

    I can see Aperture definitely becoming a \"killer\" app for 35mm cameras, so I'm surprised PhaseOne would be ok with people bypassing C1 to develop in another application.

    Of course, this is an old problem with cutting edge design - marrying software with hardware - just look at the history of Apple. Actually (and maybe going against what I suggested above) at this stage I wouldn't be surprised if they came looking to buy you guys out. (Disclaimer - I'm getting *very* specualtive here!)
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  • Ulf Liljegren
    My post is not that surprising, we have been implementing 35mm RAW files a few years now and if we are implementing other companies RAW file standards, why would we not allow others to implement ours, there is nothing we can do to stop them!
    I know that ACR support .mos files, why they has chosen that before Phase One files I can only speculate (Think I have a pretty good idea) when Phase One is the largest medium camera back manufacture in the world.
    You are right it is a niche market but then again Toyota is spending 200milion USD a year to be a part of Formula 1 and have not come up with any good result. Mercedes is making engines to Maclaren and BMW is making to Williams, BMW has finally out grown Williams now so they bought Jordan to have their own team. There is a reason why you want to working in the top of the pops. Other wise you will only be a Hyundai or a Skoda.

    Hope I make sense, If not, then just see it as car talk in a camera forum ;- )
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  • Eric311
    Yes, that's great, I mean I have no use for ACR, but I do really like the idea of open standards in general - as a user, this really allows you to analyse the pros and cons of a particular product...

    Fully understand the car analogy - I think, in Apple's case, this was exactly why they wanted to \"show\" Richard Burbridge working with a high-end camera, and apparently a high-end back. It's all about gloss to better sell the mass-market product - we'll be curious to see if they actually implement support for it.
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  • Andy312
    I think the proof of this product will of course be the raw conversion quality it achieves. As a mac user I'm interested to see what Aperture can do, but I'll be really surprised if it can match the quality of C1, even though it's interface looks very slick.
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  • David Mantripp
    Well you can check RAW quality now, if you have OS X 10.4 and iPhoto 5.

    With 10.4.3, Olympus E-1 support was added, so I tried it....

    ... and PhaseOne, you'll not be losing me as as a happy customer just yet 😊
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  • Ulf Liljegren
    On a 100% personal level I don't think it is Capture One they are after but Adobe. If you look at PhotoShop it was made for graphical artists and not Photographers. Adobe tried to aim Elements at photographers but in reality it only becomes a weak version of PhotoShop.
    The risk is that Apple wants to much to quick this is why the hardware spec is set so high.
    Apeture + x86 (Intel) based laptops will secure Apples grip on the photographic market, no doubt in my mind atleast.
    We will be there with x86 version of Capture One for Mac and also be one of the few camera back manufacturar that provides a Windows alternativ.
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  • David Mantripp
    Based on initial reports on image quality issues from Aperture customers, I think it is a very good thing CaptureOne will still be around....

    But you'd better add some animating bits and pieces, some coooool effects, and a baffling file saving mechanism 😊 (oh, and bump up the price a bit, just to stay in sync)
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