Colour Profile Problems Part 2
Hello all
Hopefully Drew will allow this thread to develop.
The 7D2 colour cast problem is blindingly obvious to me. I have the same problem with Cap1 and 7D.
In order to see it, just process and compare on the same screen. It is differences we are looking at, not absolutes.
Cap1 is not alone in this cast problem. I suspect many raw converters have been tweaked in the last year or so to make outputs look 'good'. But not realistic, I suggest.
I am fed up with fiddling around with colours in the yellow-orange-red-magnolia hue range (i.e. autumn leaf colours). I have now gone back to the camera manufacturers' own software for basic raw conversion. DPP and IDC do a good job to my eyes and on my screen. Then I process the basic tif outputs in 'proper' software, including Cap1.
In the past my main criterion for a good raw converter was noise control. Now, with modern cameras and refined software algorithms, noise is less of a problem and I am focused on colour tones. The least offensive ones (IMO) are now DxO-10 and ACDSee-8. Perhaps by next year it will be Cap1 v9?
Always ready to learn!
Peter
Hopefully Drew will allow this thread to develop.
The 7D2 colour cast problem is blindingly obvious to me. I have the same problem with Cap1 and 7D.
In order to see it, just process and compare on the same screen. It is differences we are looking at, not absolutes.
Cap1 is not alone in this cast problem. I suspect many raw converters have been tweaked in the last year or so to make outputs look 'good'. But not realistic, I suggest.
I am fed up with fiddling around with colours in the yellow-orange-red-magnolia hue range (i.e. autumn leaf colours). I have now gone back to the camera manufacturers' own software for basic raw conversion. DPP and IDC do a good job to my eyes and on my screen. Then I process the basic tif outputs in 'proper' software, including Cap1.
In the past my main criterion for a good raw converter was noise control. Now, with modern cameras and refined software algorithms, noise is less of a problem and I am focused on colour tones. The least offensive ones (IMO) are now DxO-10 and ACDSee-8. Perhaps by next year it will be Cap1 v9?
Always ready to learn!
Peter
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I concur Richard's observation. When I compared the output from Christian' profile against the reference image available at QPCard, it was a very close match. It wasn't the case for V2.
Left: Chris
Right: Reference
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k105/Poljot/Chris_1.jpg0 -
if you upload 2 .tiffs of the converted target (use prophoto as output colorspace) with old and new profile, I can post what BabelColor patchtool shows for both profiles.. something like this
http://s28.postimg.org/oeo9mkdn1/C1_Sony_A7.jpg
this was for example C1 using Sony Standard profile vs Colorchecker SG (raw was from Imaging Resources - bottom/right corner and spectral data for the target as a reference - top/left corner) using no other adjustments except for custom WB and film curve0 -
So, there is still life in this thread! I confess I don't understand what Dee is trying to tell us. Is 8.2 an improvement or not, with respect to 7D2?
I can see there are differences in the QPCard images. The reference is more saturated in the yellow-orange sector. Or, if you like, the "Christian" image is less saturated. Neutral greys in the two images have very similar luminosity.
Perhaps it is inevitable that modern computers and software will tease out colour differences that would otherwise pass us by unnoticed? It remains my impression that Canon 7D outputs are too red and 7D2 even more red, because the official Canon camera profiles are biased towards this. Hence all the work that Phase and you and I have to put in to get a truly neutral starting point with these cameras.
It will be interesting to see how the 5DS performs in this respect.
Peter0 -
> I confess I don't understand what Dee is trying to tell us. Is 8.2 an improvement or not, with respect to 7D2?
not me... but after so much attack on C1, we shall expect owners of that Canon camera to come back and discuss the updated profile... I offered to run tests with numbers that do not depend on how your LCD was/is calibrated or your personal reception of certain colors using BabelColor PatchTool (I don't own Canon camera and naturally I am not going to run conversions myself - but I can compare the output = tiff vs reference and provide all the metric that PatchTool gives and it gives a plenty) versus any target that has reference numbers available (passport, SG, QPCard, etc) - that's it0 -
Can you tell me how to select prophoto output? Have tried to explore the output output profile with no success. Many thanks in advance! 0 -
[quote="seppoj" wrote:
Can you tell me how to select prophoto output? Have tried to explore the output output profile with no success. Many thanks in advance!
http://help.phaseone.com/en/CO8/Output/ ... aspx#item6
if by any chance you do not have this color space profile then you need to get prophoto.icc (for example = https://sites.google.com/site/chromasoft/icmprofiles) or create one yourself0 -
Thank you so much!!! I did not have the prophoto profile, but I downloaded it from the link you gave; much appreciated! 😄 0 -
Really glad that I happened across this topic. I use a Nikon D7100 and very much like C1Pro.... but I am struggling with colour balance issues on skin tone and flowers as it happens! I hadn't realised the ongoing issues that others have highlighted but do now feel reassured that it's not something that I'm doing wrong. Now, I also use DxO10 and in fact am now leaning more towards that as a tool of choice. For me, it is producing images that are accurate in colour reproduction - for example we have a garden rose that is slightly blue in colour but came out as slightly pink with C1Pro - DxO10 produced it faithfully - really astonishing to look at prints side by side. The same is true for pictures of people - DxO seems to nail it. As I say C1Pro is my preferred tool and I will stick with it a little longer... 0 -
[quote="NN635417111011508800UL" wrote:
I use a Nikon D7100
here is the spectral graphs Nikon D7100 = https://images.nital.it/nikonschool/exp ... tivity.jpg
https://images.nital.it/nikonschool/experience/images/sulla-via-del-colore/big/22-D7100-Sensitivity.jpg
you can digitize it with http://arohatgi.info/WebPlotDigitizer/download.html
and then build your camera profiles without shooting any target for any illumination with http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~torger/dcamprof.html ( http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/ind ... c=100015.0 )0 -
deejjjaaaa,
Don't you happen to have a link to Nikon D7000 spectral graph as well?
Thanks,
Szabolcs0 -
no, I do not... you can ask around in various forums or approximate SSF/CMF yourself using Matlab (open source eq = Octave) script @ http://www.cis.rit.edu/~dxl5849/projects/camspec/ , like I did for A7 and A7RII. 0 -
Thanks, I'll look around 0 -
I couldn't find anything about my camera. I can't find the script you mentioned, and my camera is not in the database...I'll wait then, until I got some response from the Support 0 -
Hi Christian,
I tried to download the settings 7d2GYRMod.copreset but the link does not exist anymore. I switched from LR to C1 because of much better details for bird photography but I´m not satisfied with colour accuracy, never seen a short-eared owl with orange eyes before.0 -
[quote="Tordalk" wrote:
Hi Christian,
I tried to download the settings 7d2GYRMod.copreset but the link does not exist anymore. I switched from LR to C1 because of much better details for bird photography but I´m not satisfied with colour accuracy, never seen a short-eared owl with orange eyes before.
Just use the Generic V2 profile for the 7d2. Available from the list in Base Characteristics -> ICC profile.0
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