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Editing changes not saved upon exiting C1

Charles O'Hara
For the past few days I have been experiencing a VERY frustrating bug with Capture One: whenever I quit the program, some or all of the editing changes I made are not saved whenever I reopen the program. It's as if everything was just stored in RAM and never written to disk!

The major culprit seems to be related the local adjustments: my masks either do not get saved when reopening the app, or they completely disappear! For example, let's say I create a new layer and start drawing a mask; when I close and then reopen C1, the mask may have been incompletely saved, or it may have disappeared entierely! And if some mask is there upon restarting, upon another reopening of the program it sometimes would just vanish. So all in all, it seems completely random.

This is totally disrupting of my workflow and I feel like I am going to miss delivery deadlines... as I have to work over and over and over again only to find that my changes never register on the hard drive, or worse, what looks like it was properly saved gets trashed on the next program start! I tried moving my sesson folder to another disk, to no avail.

I just tried a complete, clean reinstall of C1. The bug is still there. My next step will be a complete Windows 10 reinstall... as I cannot find what may cause this.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
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Comments

72 comments

Date Votes
  • SFA
    [quote="nothing" wrote:
    same issue here with the same setup (windows 10 creators fall edition + latest updates) and c1 10.2. It seems that all changes are saved into TMP files, but not copied into respective adjustment .cos file. From NNN635796750580192506 example above please shut down C1, check the latest change date of tmp file and rename that files it into respective .cos file, your adjustnemts should be restored. For instance if "_COP3673.NEF.cos~RF178b9c5.TMP~RF1792011.TMP~RF17931f3.TMP" is the latest file for all files starting with "_COP3673.NEF.cos", you should rename that "_COP3673.NEF.cos~RF178b9c5.TMP~RF1792011.TMP~RF17931f3.TMP" file into "_COP3673.NEF.cos"; start C1 and probably regenerate preview for that file to sync preview and adjustments.


    At a glance it looks like the files from working memory are not being renamed correctly from the .TMP version so that they replace the previous .cos file (a very frequent action in C1 since it perpetually updates the edit files.)
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  • nothing
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    At a glance it looks like the files from working memory are not being renamed correctly from the .TMP version so that they replace the previous .cos file (a very frequent action in C1 since it perpetually updates the edit files.)


    Correct!! and C1 keeps on multiplying them with additional .TMP parts
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  • SFA
    According to some information I have read there is a facility to roll back the windows update automatically so long as you use it within 10 days of the problem installation.

    It would seem like a wise things to do if you still have the option.


    Grant
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  • nothing
    it doesn't look like windows 10 specific problem, more like C1 defect.
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  • SFA
    [quote="nothing" wrote:
    it doesn't look like windows 10 specific problem, more like C1 defect.


    So a defect that that has never appeared before afaik and seems to coincide with the installation of Win 10 Creators Update Fall edition which, if I understand it correctly, is something that should be treated as a beta test platform rather than a full release.

    That's an interesting view of things.

    If the problem still exists when MS have released some patches and Capture One has been released as an approved version for Win 10 Creator Edition Fall update, then you might claim a defect. Until then to do so seems to be going against all the evidence in this thread.


    Grant
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  • nothing
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="nothing" wrote:
    it doesn't look like windows 10 specific problem, more like C1 defect.


    So a defect that that has never appeared before afaik and seems to coincide with the installation of Win 10 Creators Update Fall edition which, if I understand it correctly, is something that should be treated as a beta test platform rather than a full release.
    ....
    Grant


    This is wrong, as per Microsoft website Win 10 Creators Fall Edition (build 16299.19) is the latest recommended version.

    MS Release info
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  • SFA
    [quote="nothing" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="nothing" wrote:
    it doesn't look like windows 10 specific problem, more like C1 defect.


    So a defect that that has never appeared before afaik and seems to coincide with the installation of Win 10 Creators Update Fall edition which, if I understand it correctly, is something that should be treated as a beta test platform rather than a full release.
    ....
    Grant


    This is wrong, as per Microsoft website Win 10 Creators Fall Edition (build 16299.19) is the latest recommended version.

    MS Release info


    Read the second paragraph of your link carefully.

    Also, are you a "Creator" or just a user?

    As a developer or if responsible for corporate deployment you may well feel a desire to deploy the latest releases on some sample machines to see what happens. It would be you job and part of preparing for the future. If you adopt that approach MS are suggesting that the Semi-annual release like this one is the bast one to choose right now. They seem to be copying what Apple have been doing (with similar results) for years.

    As a user .... maybe not so useful.

    I doubt the large corporates are likely to be rushing this out. The needs of corporates are rarely satisfied by being early adopters. Heck, many have only recently moved from XP and some have yet to make that transition.


    Grant


    ETA:

    Coincidentally to writing the above I was in conversation with a long time colleague who happens to be managing a corporate roll out scheduled for about a year from now (at this time). Having taken advice from an authoritative source (and even though they are doing no more than watching and testing for potential problems with the several hundred applications in use across the user base) they are not expecting to do anything with the latest Creator release at this time even though any installation they might perform would be entirely non-critical for operational purposes.

    He is awaiting confirmation that it is worth returning to updates as they become available.

    My impression is that if you are prompted to take the update than MS are likely to be reasonably confident that your configuration is suitable. (Not guaranteed but worth a tryout).

    If you go chasing the update without a prompt from MS then best to take care and be cautious.
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  • WPNL
    Same here with the same setup (clean install of Windows 10 Creators Fall Edition + updates) and C1 10.2.
    I thought I was going crazy or my memory was playing tricks on me because I was losing work :-\
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  • Christian Gruner
    Fall Creators Edition of Windows (1709) has introduced a change to filehandling, which Capture One uses. We are currently looking for a solution.

    Capture One 10 does not support Windows 10 Fall Creators update.
    We recommend users to downgrade to 1703 or lower in order for Capture One to work as designed, because of the introduced change to the OS described above.
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  • WPNL
    Thanks for the advice, but...
    How long do you ecpect it'll be before it is supported, because re-installing is quite serious/time consuming (I use other software besides C1).

    I'd hate to get an update two hours after I completed the 'downgrade' 😉
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  • Luke Miller
    So far, C1 10.2 appears to work properly after the Win 10 Fall Creator Update in Catalog Mode.
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    Thanks for the advice, but...
    How long do you ecpect it'll be before it is supported, because re-installing is quite serious/time consuming (I use other software besides C1).

    I'd hate to get an update two hours after I completed the 'downgrade' 😉


    I cannot give any timeline, but obviously we want to address this as soon as possible.

    Regarding roll-back, then MS have made it quite easy to do that: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... a226302657
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  • xplatinum
    Could this also affect my thumbnails being regenerated every time I start the application? The .cot files.
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  • WPNL
    I did a clean install...

    But I would have appreciated if I was warned for this, a newsletter or post on social media would have been enough.
    What about the users that don't regularly visit this forum???
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  • Christian Gruner
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    I did a clean install...

    But I would have appreciated if I was warned for this, a newsletter or post on social media would have been enough.
    What about the users that don't regularly visit this forum???


    It's a weighting beteween spamming people with newsletters, that might not even be relevant for them, and getting a very early message out, maybe without not understanding the issue completely.

    In general, if you use your system for production in any kind, and you rely on any kind of software, not just CO, don't update straight away. Wait a month or two. Being a first-mover can be risky.
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  • SFA
    [quote="WPNL" wrote:
    I did a clean install...

    But I would have appreciated if I was warned for this, a newsletter or post on social media would have been enough.
    What about the users that don't regularly visit this forum???



    You still would not catch everyone no matter what method you use - and some people would ignore the warnings for reasons of their own.

    In this particular case (given the history of Windows 10 since launch) Microsoft might have done more to help people understand what was going on with these Creator Releases and who they were really aimed at and why.


    Large corporates, who in any case tend to be slow to deploy things outside an IT department because of the scale of the effort involved, will likely have insider contacts to provide guidance. Some major developers may have similar sources of information although they well be early adopters if the Windows market is their sole or primary area of business and the feature set of the new products is important to their marketplace.

    But MS are hardly likely to announce the release of a flagship update and then send all users a mail advising extreme caution if they decide to install it.

    All they can really do when using this sort of "public beta" agile approach is to target user of devices that they believe will mainly support the new version without too many issues. This, I think, is what they have been attempting when advising Win 10 technical users about the availability of this update. Words is the the wider roll out (of the more widely tested product) is full expected to take some months before pushing it to the mass user public.

    I have no idea if that is in fact the strategy but it would make some sense.

    What they seem to lack is any way to advise the regular users who are no technical developers (i.e not "Creators" of code) that the new development, though freely available to them, may not be entirely suitable for everything they need to run.

    I'm not sure how the might successfully overcome that challenge other than by allowing people to experience the consequences for themselves. Nor, indeed, whether an alternative approach majoring in caution would produce a different result.

    Just my reading of the situation of course. Others may see it differently.

    Grant
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  • Chad Dahlquist
    I am new to windows the update asking is annoying so hope this gets resolved quickly 😊

    but the roll back was surprising easy to do I had to reinstall my new adobe apps again though ? not sure what else I will come across as I work today but at least C1 is working again 😊
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  • Charles O'Hara
    [quote="nothing" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="nothing" wrote:
    it doesn't look like windows 10 specific problem, more like C1 defect.


    So a defect that that has never appeared before afaik and seems to coincide with the installation of Win 10 Creators Update Fall edition which, if I understand it correctly, is something that should be treated as a beta test platform rather than a full release.
    ....
    Grant


    This is wrong, as per Microsoft website Win 10 Creators Fall Edition (build 16299.19) is the latest recommended version.

    MS Release info


    Microsoft is indeed doing some kind of "beta testing" on targeted users. Business users should switch over to the "Semi-annual Channel" under advanced Windows Update settings. Its release cycle is delayed 4 months after the initial "official" release on the Semi-annual (Targeted) Channel. The updates can then be set manually to be deferred up to 365 more days later. The settings can be set independently for content and security updates.

    I know I will never rush Windows content updates ever again from now on... after I reformat and do a clean install of Windows 1703.

    For more information, the following article describes the differences between the different update channels:
    https://rcpmag.com/articles/2017/07/28/ ... model.aspx
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  • Charles O'Hara
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:

    I know I will never rush Windows content updates ever again from now on... after I reformat and do a clean install of Windows 1703.


    I spoke too soon. I don't have the Windows 1703 source anymore, and since I did a clean install of 1709, I cannot revert the previous version. Microsoft does not publicly allow downloads of older versions of its OS, so all of us with either:

    - a brand new computer running the latest Windows 10;
    - any kind of clean installation of the latest official Windows version done after a hdd failure or whatever necessitating a reinstall;
    - an upgraded Windows 10 to 1709 from 1703 followed by using the disk cleanup tool to remove old installation files;

    cannot, without a whole lot of hassle (getting the right MSDN clearance, etc.) legally get back to a Windows 1703 installation.

    So I guess a Capture One patch is needed fast. 😕
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:

    I know I will never rush Windows content updates ever again from now on... after I reformat and do a clean install of Windows 1703.


    I spoke too soon. I don't have the Windows 1703 source anymore, and since I did a clean install of 1709, I cannot revert the previous version. Microsoft does not publicly allow downloads of older versions of its OS, so all of us with either:

    - a brand new computer running the latest Windows 10;
    - any kind of clean installation of the latest official Windows version done after a hdd failure or whatever necessitating a reinstall;
    - an upgraded Windows 10 to 1709 from 1703 followed by using the disk cleanup tool to remove old installation files;

    cannot, without a whole lot of hassle (getting the right MSDN clearance, etc.) legally get back to a Windows 1703 installation.

    So I guess a Capture One patch is needed fast. 😕


    Or a Windows patch for compatibility?
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  • xplatinum
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:

    I know I will never rush Windows content updates ever again from now on... after I reformat and do a clean install of Windows 1703.


    I spoke too soon. I don't have the Windows 1703 source anymore, and since I did a clean install of 1709, I cannot revert the previous version. Microsoft does not publicly allow downloads of older versions of its OS, so all of us with either:

    - a brand new computer running the latest Windows 10;
    - any kind of clean installation of the latest official Windows version done after a hdd failure or whatever necessitating a reinstall;
    - an upgraded Windows 10 to 1709 from 1703 followed by using the disk cleanup tool to remove old installation files;

    cannot, without a whole lot of hassle (getting the right MSDN clearance, etc.) legally get back to a Windows 1703 installation.

    So I guess a Capture One patch is needed fast. 😕

    Of course you can download an older build of Windows. And straight from microsoft.com too.

    Here you go. Build 1703 x64 (Creators Update). You can create a bootable USB key with Rufus. Let me know if you need help with that.

    https://software-download.microsoft.com ... fa313aa2f7

    edit - Rufus link (tool to create bootable USB from ISO file.
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  • Charles O'Hara
    [quote="xplatinum" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:

    I know I will never rush Windows content updates ever again from now on... after I reformat and do a clean install of Windows 1703.


    I spoke too soon. I don't have the Windows 1703 source anymore, and since I did a clean install of 1709, I cannot revert the previous version. Microsoft does not publicly allow downloads of older versions of its OS, so all of us with either:

    - a brand new computer running the latest Windows 10;
    - any kind of clean installation of the latest official Windows version done after a hdd failure or whatever necessitating a reinstall;
    - an upgraded Windows 10 to 1709 from 1703 followed by using the disk cleanup tool to remove old installation files;

    cannot, without a whole lot of hassle (getting the right MSDN clearance, etc.) legally get back to a Windows 1703 installation.

    So I guess a Capture One patch is needed fast. 😕

    Of course you can download an older build of Windows. And straight from microsoft.com too.

    Here you go. Build 1703 x64 (Creators Update). You can create a bootable USB key with Rufus. Let me know if you need help with that.

    https://software-download.microsoft.com ... fa313aa2f7

    edit - Rufus link (tool to create bootable USB from ISO file.


    Oh wow, thanks so much!

    I spent quite a lot of time on Google and all the links I found were either not working (they were hosted on MSDN which required an elevated clearance I don't have) or were not official sources.

    How did you get this link? When using a Windows 10 browser user agent, Microsoft refers to the Media Creation Tool, which downloads 1709, and when using a different OS user agent, say Android, I get to download the ISO instead of the Media Creation Tool, but the only one I can find is also 1709.

    Do you also by any chance know how I can browse for other builds (in other languages - just so I won't have to download language files post installation) ?
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  • Charles O'Hara
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:

    I know I will never rush Windows content updates ever again from now on... after I reformat and do a clean install of Windows 1703.


    I spoke too soon. I don't have the Windows 1703 source anymore, and since I did a clean install of 1709, I cannot revert the previous version. Microsoft does not publicly allow downloads of older versions of its OS, so all of us with either:

    - a brand new computer running the latest Windows 10;
    - any kind of clean installation of the latest official Windows version done after a hdd failure or whatever necessitating a reinstall;
    - an upgraded Windows 10 to 1709 from 1703 followed by using the disk cleanup tool to remove old installation files;

    cannot, without a whole lot of hassle (getting the right MSDN clearance, etc.) legally get back to a Windows 1703 installation.

    So I guess a Capture One patch is needed fast. 😕


    Or a Windows patch for compatibility?


    Either would do, yes.

    Whose fault it is that there is a compatibility issue is none of my concern, really, even if I imagine the plight of small developers dealing with unforeseen OS changes. Although apparently some user warned Phase One about the problem months ago, after testing Capture One on an Insider build.

    Then of course Microsoft should be more transparent as to what changes internally in its OS after every mid-year update and work with software developers to iron out compatibility issues that might occur after those said changes - but maybe they already do, what do I know.

    In the end, I just want my software to work. Apart from Capture One, all of the programs I installed on 1709 work perfectly, incuding other raw editing software. Maybe Microsoft is to blame for the bug (partly or totally, I don't know), but considering the competiton is handling the OS filehandling change just fine, why sould I not expect Capture One to do the same?
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  • xplatinum
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    Do you also by any chance know how I can browse for other builds (in other languages - just so I won't have to download language files post installation) ?

    Of course! Here you go. Make sure you click the link in the DOWNLOAD column and not MSDN.

    http://windowsiso.net/windows-10-iso/wi ... -standard/

    All links point to Microsoft's official server.
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  • Charles O'Hara
    [quote="xplatinum" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    Do you also by any chance know how I can browse for other builds (in other languages - just so I won't have to download language files post installation) ?

    Of course! Here you go. Make sure you click the link in the DOWNLOAD column and not MSDN.

    http://windowsiso.net/windows-10-iso/wi ... -standard/

    All links point to Microsoft's official server.


    Aaah! I found this website but I didn't realize that the "download" button linked directly to the Microsoft server. Thank you! 😊
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  • SFA
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    Maybe Microsoft is to blame for the bug (partly or totally, I don't know), but considering the competiton is handling the OS filehandling change just fine, why sould I not expect Capture One to do the same?


    Because it's a beta release for developers to discover what they might need to do (because MS will not do it?) to make their software compliant with what WILL BE RELEASED TO THE USER DATABASE IN THE FUTURE AT SOME POINT.

    And it seems that Phase are looking at doing just that, ready for the wider roll out (once MS have settled on what they will releasing?).

    Now one interesting aspect to that is whether people holding a perpetual licence and using an older version of C1 will suddenly find they are plagued with certain problems if they use Win 10 and continue to update it or use an older OS and plan (or are eventually forced) to move to Win 10. I guess it depends on whether whatever has changed and seems to affect, from what we see in this thread, just one particular file handling aspect in a specific part of C1 functionality, was used in the same way in earlier versions.

    Is this Microsoft adopting Apple development policies and planned obsolescence cycles being reduced? (Rhetorical question - it may be a while before we find out.)
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  • xplatinum
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    Maybe Microsoft is to blame for the bug (partly or totally, I don't know), but considering the competiton is handling the OS filehandling change just fine, why sould I not expect Capture One to do the same?


    Because it's a beta release for developers to discover what they might need to do (because MS will not do it?) to make their software compliant with what WILL BE RELEASED TO THE USER DATABASE IN THE FUTURE AT SOME POINT.

    And it seems that Phase are looking at doing just that, ready for the wider roll out (once MS have settled on what they will releasing?).

    Now one interesting aspect to that is whether people holding a perpetual licence and using an older version of C1 will suddenly find they are plagued with certain problems if they use Win 10 and continue to update it or use an older OS and plan (or are eventually forced) to move to Win 10. I guess it depends on whether whatever has changed and seems to affect, from what we see in this thread, just one particular file handling aspect in a specific part of C1 functionality, was used in the same way in earlier versions.

    Is this Microsoft adopting Apple development policies and planned obsolescence cycles being reduced? (Rhetorical question - it may be a while before we find out.)

    Build 1709 is the final (not beta) release of the fall creator's update. It has been released on October 17th. Nothing beta about it. Do you have a link pointing to the Update changelog outlining the new file-handling feature you are speaking of?
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  • SFA
    [quote="xplatinum" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:
    [quote="NNN635796750580192506" wrote:
    Maybe Microsoft is to blame for the bug (partly or totally, I don't know), but considering the competiton is handling the OS filehandling change just fine, why sould I not expect Capture One to do the same?


    Because it's a beta release for developers to discover what they might need to do (because MS will not do it?) to make their software compliant with what WILL BE RELEASED TO THE USER DATABASE IN THE FUTURE AT SOME POINT.

    And it seems that Phase are looking at doing just that, ready for the wider roll out (once MS have settled on what they will releasing?).

    Now one interesting aspect to that is whether people holding a perpetual licence and using an older version of C1 will suddenly find they are plagued with certain problems if they use Win 10 and continue to update it or use an older OS and plan (or are eventually forced) to move to Win 10. I guess it depends on whether whatever has changed and seems to affect, from what we see in this thread, just one particular file handling aspect in a specific part of C1 functionality, was used in the same way in earlier versions.

    Is this Microsoft adopting Apple development policies and planned obsolescence cycles being reduced? (Rhetorical question - it may be a while before we find out.)

    Build 1709 is the final (not beta) release of the fall creator's update. It has been released on October 17th. Nothing beta about it. Do you have a link pointing to the Update changelog outlining the new file-handling feature you are speaking of?


    It's beta in terms of it being a developer release (to be used with caution) not an end user release - unless you are an end user masquerading as a developer to get the latest and greatest as early as possible.

    Someone I know quite well who is currently managing a major user upgrade to Win 10 project (so not critical testing but potential for a lot of wasted effort in the project team) was advised by someone who would know to avoid taking this particular update into their test systems. Presumably there was a good reason for that advice.

    The comment about file handling came from an earlier response post by a Phase Crew member.

    In the experience of several developers I have worked with closely it seems that a number of changes may be introduced in releases from large companies without necessarily being mentioned or sufficiently described in any release notes.

    This is not a surprise. Things can be very complex, especially these days, and the chances for omissions and missed identification of the possible impact of changes between groups of internal developers is relatively high, IMO.


    Grant
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  • CSwinton
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    ...
    It's beta in terms of it being a developer release (to be used with caution) not an end user release - unless you are an end user masquerading as a developer to get the latest and greatest as early as possible.
    ...
    Grant


    My Windows machine automatically updated to 1709 this past week as part of regular updates. I did not run off to get the "latest and greatest". As far as I can tell, it began a staged public roll-out as of 10/17.
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  • SFA
    [quote="CSwinton" wrote:
    [quote="SFA" wrote:

    ...
    It's beta in terms of it being a developer release (to be used with caution) not an end user release - unless you are an end user masquerading as a developer to get the latest and greatest as early as possible.
    ...
    Grant


    My Windows machine automatically updated to 1709 this past week as part of regular updates. I did not run off to get the "latest and greatest". As far as I can tell, it began a staged public roll-out as of 10/17.


    Did you have the previous Creators Update installed?
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